NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

[filipiraten]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Damn, sad to see Kawhi without his beard. He looked better at the Gamescom Expo..

[jlaz]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

is there also a transition midrange pullup tendency, or do we only have 3pt tendency right now?

great write up, so many new and exciting things.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

The positive by far outweighs the negative in this blog, but one thing that worried me is in the final bonus clip. When Harden kicks out to the open corner three, neither Kings defender makes an effort to close out. This does happen in real life sometimes where a player can get a literally 100% uncontested shot, but it's rare, and in 2K17, it was very common.

Maybe a dev can shed some light?

[BDM313]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Excellent blog but the substitution format is iffy...why not just let us use the D-Pad...what about a menu to determine a player's stamina..

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[strawberryshortcake]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Excellent blog but the substitution format is iffy...why not just let us use the D-Pad...what about a menu to determine a player's stamina..

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I carefully looked over the substitution menu and personally, I think what they currently have developed for 2k18 would ultimately make substitution much faster than the simple d-pad scroll method if it actually works the way I think it works.

Few concerns:
(1) Lack of stamina indicator is absolutely a concern.
(2) How do we make position changes on the fly. Hypothetically, if I wanted to move Klay Thompson to point guard and Draymond Green to the shooting guard, can that be done on the fly during the substitution menu/
(3) The other concern is that it seems as though there are only 5 available bench substitutes at any one time. If there are 12 active roster spots, with 5 already on the floor (starters), then I would hope that I am not restricted to only the "top" 5 bench players the computer deemed is appropriate. What if I wanted to bring in my 11th or 12th man off the bench? Can a "more" button be implemented so we can toggle our entire bench and see which person we want substituted in?

The following is my assumption to how the on the fly substitution menu works. And something like having some type of color coded stamina indicator would be great to have.

Before jumping the gun, try to first get an understanding of the reasoning behind why it was done. I've looked at both sub menu screen captures and it's suppose to make things intuitive in the sense that you can do it with your eyes closed.

Diagram below shows the corresponding position placement and it looks to be fixed to those buttons. Instead of pushing the right analog stick in the direction of the center in 2k17, we're simply using tactile dedicated buttons. We know exactly where each button is; we can now essentially do it by feel as opposed to sight. It should make the substitution more of a reflex.

The only problem is that we have absolutely no clue about the player's stamina/fatigue. We still don't know if there will be stamina color indicators. Currently the number next to the player only indicates their OVR rating, which is kind of pointless in a substitution setting.

=============================
((RB)) is designated always for the center position.
((X)) and ((A)) always as guards
((LB)) and ((Y)) always as forwards.
=============================


Spoiler contains two substitution screenshot from Da_Czar's offensive AI blog.

Spoiler

Spoiler

EDIT: Also if my interpretation of the visuals are correct, you'll see a color code indicating which player you have selected, exactly what I would have like to have seen (and personally made suggestion) back in 2k16.




My 2k16 substitution screen suggested improvement was for 2k to have added some type of color coded indicator.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

I'm late to this party but WOW! Great stuff Czar! You know I've been talking about the read and React stuff for years. That was incredible to see fades, curls, backdoors, and all the reads a player is smart enough to make in how he is being guarded! WOW WOW WOW!!!

Loved this...

The offensive flow in NBA 2K18 would not be possible without the benefits offered by this new motion system. We can now run more complex actions in less time. In previous games there were many small tweaks we had to make in order to complete more complex actions. Each of these tweaks added minute delays that when added all together, would increase the time it took for plays and actions to complete. With all of those tweaks removed our game has a dynamic flow and pace that it has never had before.

That motion video looked amazing! It's always bugged me in how long the plays tookand the jerky jerky stuff.Last year it just became stale to me. But that video seemed so smooth and seemless in transitions! I can't wait to get my hands on this and dive into these X's & O's!

I'm officially SOLD on this game!

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

My initial reaction to solely watching the videos alone has me concerned about the defensive awareness. The offensive movement looks very good, but I'm always first and foremost concerned about how the defenders react to those offensive movements. It seems as though a few of the videos showing lack of awareness by the defenders, especially by defenders that are in position to make a play or are within arm's reach.

Either later today or tomorrow, I'll make another post showing exactly where my concerns are with visual displays.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Great blog, shoutout to 2K for leaking the Bulls' black jersey too.

LOL. Yall know I try to show you as much as I can while still getting the videos approved. Good eye!


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[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

The write-up's promising and we all know that Czar does all he can to improve the game for simheads. I think we're going to have to play the game to get a real sense of how much better AI behavior is, in terms of the situational reads as well as the improvements to motion (and, presumably, collision and lack thereof).



On in-game player subs, I'm curious: why do we still not get any indication of player Stamina in the in-game sub menus?

• Is this just oversight? Not thinking players would want this? A UI design issue, thinking it would make things too cluttered?
  
• Or is this a conscious decision to hide information? If so, what's the rationale? I've theorized that 2K doesn't give us Stamina "readout" in the game menu because they're trying to be realistic: a coach doesn't really know if a player is tired, or how tired, by some sort of quantified metric. He has to infer from visually watching the player's performance.
  
• It's not unreasonable that, in the Timeout substitution menu, we got coloring indication of fatigue. Maybe this simulates players talking to coaches during timeout...giving them an approximation of how they feel.
  
• But the problem is, in the Pause menu, we get the exact, quantified Stamina readout. Not just "brownish green," but..."76." Why give us the most precise information in the menu that can be accessed at almost any time, doesn't require a realistic break in play, but which does actually cause a disruptive break in play for the opponent?
  

I'm really looking forward to, hopefully, a future blog by Czar on plays and freelances.



Specifically, I'd really like to see us being given the ability to manually call for Pick'n'Roll/Fade during plays and freelance actions that will not break the action, if the screener is not involved in at least the first branch of the action.



And all kinds of other things. But, no matter what, very much appreciate all the thought and energy that Czar puts into the game for us.

On your wish to have call manual pnr's without breaking the play or action. How would you propose to handle the spacing ? That is the main reason we have to break the actions unless I'm not understanding what you are proposing.


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[Baebae32]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Hey Czar i have a couple questions.

1. End of shot clock ai.
Will the ai look to make a play beyond swinging the ball around the perimeter frantically if there is not a player on the court with a high "touches" tendency? In 17 it seemed like the ai didnt know what to do once it got past its initial action and it didnt have its "go to" players on the court. Maybe the could run high screen and roll or throw the ball in the post.

2. Iso plays differentiation
Has there been a differentiation between "isolation post up" and "isolation post up" play types. Take for example the new look Cavs. If lebron and i. Thomas both have the isolation play type. Then you could potentially have the case where i.thomas would have the same isolation plays called as lebron and could result in him playing in the mid post area. Again i think separation iso post up and iso perimeter plays would help this

3. More play types
Will we be able to assign players more than 4 play types this year?

[Da_Czar]

NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

both blogs (OGs and Czars) seems to have addressed things ive seen guys wanting for at least 2 years if not longer. if all works as intended and played as intended (no cheesing), #simnation should be pretty happy.

This first year Flow tech is more for people who like to play basketball rather than "video-games". So Flow Tech is not yet an anti cheese measure. Guys who do basketball things on offense/ defense will get the most fun and execution out of it.

I design the counters based on what a hoop head might do to cheat a play.

We will see how the cheesers try and break it this year and look at mitigation more in the future.



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[Gosens6]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Czar kills it yet again! Everything looks so beautiful and smooth in motion. The level of intelligence from the computer looks off the chain.

Speaking of cheesers, our number one fear here at OS are the dreaded patches that seem to cater to what the cheese heads wanted last year.

What you guys have achieved this year, you seem to be getting back to your simulation roots. OS is on a 2K basketball high right now, PLEASE don’t patch the game and give into the cheeser complaints. I can already seem them saying it’s too hard, or they don’t make enough shots. Put your foot down this year, 2K!

This game has a chance to be the greatest of the series.


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[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

That entire JJ sequence should go in the Czar blog HOF....amazing stuff man

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Thank you 24. Really appreciate that fam.

My engineer whom I call the master is really that dude. He has added a ton of capability each year. Like I have said before even if on the consumer end the game didn't feel or play better. "Technically" each year the AI has been expanded a great deal.

All that work culminated in what you see in Flow Tech. We tried sooooo many iterations I almost thought we would never get it LOL.

So I am happy where we are for year 1. But I have a whole notebook full of things I want to get to.


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[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Dear D_Czar,

So, low or high IQ ratings (or any ratings) aren't taken into account for players knowing more than one branch ?

I mean, lets say someone like Dunn faces the same situations presented on the videos of Reddick, is he equally efficient on doing all those reads and actions that Reddick did ?

How does the AI defense adjust and try to counter all those scenarios or is it solely a human task ? If it can, do IQ ratings (or any ratings) are accounted for how well should a player execute a given task or read branches ?

Was not an option in year one. Sometimes you have to crawl before you can walk.




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[bigmike0077]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Has there been any answer in terms of the Stamina bar for on the Fly subs?

How will we know when players are fatigued?