NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

[WaddupCouzin]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

This is (ONE OF) the reason why NBA2K breaks all records in copies sold throw the entirely sport game panorama.
Developers continuously listen the feedback to the community and they give us answer.

Indeed! I've been in this forum since the late 90's (99), and I see these young cats that are pseudo challenging the developer, trying to play the gotcha game, makes me smh. This is a gift, Big Czar, Ronyell, DC, WTF, all of us now these dudes are working hard, and to have one of our own come back answer questions from nearly each poster is a gift!

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[jfsolo]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Wow, the info and analytic precision here is staggering, amazing work Czar.* I have one question....are the 1v1 interactions improved to the point where the isolation drive tendencies can be utilized realistically?* It's really been my biggest gripe with the game the past few years, just not feeling like I could really go at mismatched (or just inferior) defenders because they were able to bump me back so easily just by making a little contact.* The same for defending, I've just never found the elite rim drivers in the game to feel as threatening as they should when I'm playing on-ball defense.* Sounds from everything I've heard and read like the "mouse in the house" is a very real thing this year, but I'm hoping that the bigs can be equally punished by trying to guard smaller players on the perimeter.

Thanks again, you guys have all but talked me into a purchase the past 2 days.* Spectacular presentation.

I'm still drooling over Transition and Isolation parts of the Blog.

And Flow Tech, in the words of Kevin Hart, "Look look look at this! Look at this! Somebody look at this!"

Yes, the Isolation and Transition improvements are super intriguing, but if getting by a poor CPU defender off the bounce still requires a Herculean effort, or great drivers being controlled by the CPU still seem passive and pedestrian, then all will be for naught.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Yes, the Isolation and Transition improvements are super intriguing, but if getting by a poor CPU defender off the bounce still requires a Herculean effort, or great drivers being controlled by the CPU still seem passive and pedestrian, then all will be for naught.

To me, they're separate issues. For example, I'll be extremely happy about the Iso Updates if for example I have CPU Melo/Harden/Kyrie being guarded by a poor defender(controlled by HUM)like a IT/Dragic/Hardaway Jr and the former 3 clear out and have their way with me. Or basically with poor defenders, I should have to put in "more work" with them to slow those guys down compared to using the elite defenders in this scenario.

In Transition, the videos Czar used would be perfect since I've been asking for that since 2k10. Shoot, it feels like it's been a minute since the AI in Transition did exactly what they should be doing in situations like 2 on 1 or 3 on 2.

[whatitisinsports]

Thanks for all your hard work. 

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Coming from Fifa and Pes blogs to reading one of these blogs is truly eye-opening. You guys don't realize how lucky and spoiled you all are. 2k is literally LIGHT YEARS ahead of every sports game except maybe The Show

2k is pretty far ahead of the Show as well for a complete game

Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Vni]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

I would love when we get to a point, just like when you have Kobe in the post, he can see where the doubleteam is coming from with those red circles.

Imagine on a fastbreak/transition a high IQ Guard or Point Forward(Lebron) has the ball and icons pop over the head of players momentarily showing what they are good at, like the 3 point icon pops over the head of a good 3 point shooter or a basket pops over the head of a good finisher. This only happens in Transition. Sometimes you just forget when you're playing what some of these dudes are good at, especially when you're in your late 4th decade...LMAO.

I really hate that idea (no offense of course). It's so arcadey. It's so typical of today's games where the hud is overloaded with icons and unnecessary info that aren't anything but a crutch designed to make the game more and more accessible. You have 5 players on the court it's not like it's rocket science who does what.

Good work off course Czar. My only issue is that I probably won't be able to play 2K this year.

Edit : Thread is great not gonna derail it to answer you. We just disagree on things.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Was not an option in year one. Sometimes you have to crawl before you can walk.

Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

Czar just wanted to jump in and say how much I REALLY appreciate all this engagement. I also wanted to call out for everyone the courage it takes in an industry like this to do this kind of detailed work that doesn't lend itself to big marketing back of the box call outs. Those updates you describe are really big, even if only a minority of players really get that.

I'm too busy this week to be deep in these thread but the questions are getting asked. But I didn't want to not show up and show my mad respect when you get to show up like this.

[Impetuous65]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

delete Msg

[Pizarro24]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

I´m also just here to say how much I appreciate the work you, OG and all the other guys are putting in this game and on top of that, being here and answer our questions and listen to feedback (from guys who really love to play SIM-Basketball).

That Redick videos are looking awesome.
I can´t even imagine how good this game will become years from now if you guys keep up this pace from year to year.

And I love the new tendencies - the more separation between players, the better.

[MoodMuzik]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

*Sees Kyrie kill the play to iso-dribble attack Parker, blows by him and could have a layup only to see him push off to a step back jumpshot...*

"Oh my gentle Jesus..."

[Da_Czar]

NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Hey Czar i have a couple questions.



1. End of shot clock ai.

Will the ai look to make a play beyond swinging the ball around the perimeter frantically if there is not a player on the court with a high "touches" tendency? In 17 it seemed like the ai didnt know what to do once it got past its initial action and it didnt have its "go to" players on the court. Maybe the could run high screen and roll or throw the ball in the post.



2. Iso plays differentiation

Has there been a differentiation between "isolation post up" and "isolation post up" play types. Take for example the new look Cavs. If lebron and i. Thomas both have the isolation play type. Then you could potentially have the case where i.thomas would have the same isolation plays called as lebron and could result in him playing in the mid post area. Again i think separation iso post up and iso perimeter plays would help this



3. More play types

Will we be able to assign players more than 4 play types this year?

Great questions. First before I get into splaining let me say with no alpha scorers in the game you are bound to see some ugly and unintelligent possessions.

So it won't be totally negated this year regardless of what I am about to type.

Now one of several things we didn't talk about in the blog our freelance player archetype system was cleaned up in a major way this year. Out side of plays each player is ID'd based on his ratings and tendencies on what type of player he is in freelance.

This is separate from freelance offenses and their branches etc ok.

These are freelance player archetypes.
Iso,
Scorer
Pnr
Cutter
Shot mid
Shot three
High post
Low post
Screener
Ball mover.

Each player on the floor identifies as UP TO FOUR of these archetypes and this is a hidden system it has been there for a few years but it is for the AI so that as they are moving the ball the game knows what type of player this is outside of his play-types.

So what you should see is ball movers moving the ball to one of the scoring archetypes and then them going to work be it through quick pnr or Iso.

In the past the system wasn't correctly identifying players and thier archetypes. This year that is really cleaned up well. So you will see more pnr's when actions don't complete as they move the ball.

Last year they were only looking for scorers and with none on the floor... Well there ya go. Again don't forget what I said earlier. Still bound to see some poor clock management at times.


Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

[Da_Czar]

NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Hey Czar i have a couple questions.



1. End of shot clock ai.

Will the ai look to make a play beyond swinging the ball around the perimeter frantically if there is not a player on the court with a high "touches" tendency? In 17 it seemed like the ai didnt know what to do once it got past its initial action and it didnt have its "go to" players on the court. Maybe the could run high screen and roll or throw the ball in the post.



2. Iso plays differentiation

Has there been a differentiation between "isolation post up" and "isolation post up" play types. Take for example the new look Cavs. If lebron and i. Thomas both have the isolation play type. Then you could potentially have the case where i.thomas would have the same isolation plays called as lebron and could result in him playing in the mid post area. Again i think separation iso post up and iso perimeter plays would help this



3. More play types

Will we be able to assign players more than 4 play types this year?

Now we added all new plays for our end game plays and we tightened up our clock management for those as well so end game we should be solid but because our plays branch so much it is hard to time end game plays correctly. Last year we had really simple end game plays because of that and they were well timed but easily guarded.

This year we have Iso Point and Iso wing play-types if a player does both you just give them Isolation which includes both. Point plays obviously the player starts and finishes the play with the ball.

Iso wing are plays where someone else has the ball and passes to the iso player.

We did not add ability for you to have more than 4 play-types. For the AI you are rarely going to see the 3rd and 4th playtype called anyway adding more wouldn't necessarily help the AI at this point. however I could see the benefit for users.

Not sure we will ever breach 4 though.


Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Great questions. First before I get into splaining let me say with no alpha scorers in the game you are bound to see some ugly and unintelligent possessions.

So it won't be totally negated this year regardless of what I am about to type.

Now one of several things we didn't talk about in the blog our freelance player archetype system was cleaned up in a major way this year. Out side of plays each player is ID'd based on his ratings and tendencies on what type of player he is in freelance.

This is separate from freelance offenses and their branches etc ok.

These are freelance player archetypes.
Iso,
Scorer
Pnr
Cutter
High post
Low post
Screener
Ball mover.

Each player on the floor identifies as one of these archetypes and this is a hidden system it has been there for a few years but it is for the AI so that as they are moving the ball the game knows what type of player this is outside of his play-types.

So what you should see is ball movers moving the ball to one of the scoring archetypes and then them going to work be it through quick pnr or Iso.

In the past the system wasn't correctly identifying players and thier archetypes. This year that is really cleaned up well. So you will see more pnr's when actions don't complete as they move the ball.

Last year they were only looking for scorers and with non on the floor... Well there ya go. Again don't forget what I said earlier. Still bound to see some poor clock management at times.


Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

Ohhhh, I like the sound of that. Follow up question on that front:

If the AI happened to roll out five of the same archtype, would a secondary archtype kick in for one (or some or all) of the players? For instance, five ball movers are out there on the floor -- the AI (hopefully) wouldn't pass the ball around until the shot clock ran out.

I'm going to assume that, if five ball movers are out on the floor, even if their inclination is to pass, one of their tendencies would kick in if an opening presented itself and they'll take a shot if they're open.

Unrelated question: is the Day 1 patch on Day 1 the game is playable, 9/15 (Early tip-off) or Day 1 it's technically releasing for everyone 9/19?

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

any answer for the stamina question people are asking?



everything else looks amazing

I have answered this a few times. Not sure where but in short I don't work on the menu's etc. That is a different department.


Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

[harryl]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

On your wish to have call manual pnr's without breaking the play or action. How would you propose to handle the spacing ? That is the main reason we have to break the actions unless I'm not understanding what you are proposing.


Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

I was thinking of situations in which the screener is not dynamic at that point in the play, so standing in the corner or posting up.

Take Quick Swing 2.

After reversing the ball to, ballhandler waits there for the double pindown screen to spring the shooter at top of arc. Whenever I run that play, and am faking ISO behavior while I wait for the double pindown, I look at the teammate who is posted up on the low block and think: it would be cool to run P&R with him while that double pindown is brewing.

Or let's say in the Elevator play: midway through, ballhandler is at a wing, waiting for shooter to run back up to top of the arc, through the "doors." (After shooter may have set screen for wing who has run baseline from weak corner to strong corner.)

There are a few seconds, again, pretending to wind up for a Hero Ball drive while I wait for off-ball action to develop, that I wish I could run P&R with that wing who is now static in the corner. Or maybe do a dribble handoff with him, and if the play's main action continues, then it's the wing who will pass to the shooter running through the closing doors.

Generally, I'm thinking about times when one is waiting for off-ball screening that may involve 3 teammates, but during which there is a 4th teammate who can screen without disrupting the play's actions at that moment, at least.

Undoubtedly there are factors I just don't understand, and compromises that y'all have agonized over and we players fixate on what we want and lose sight of what we've been given.

I thought it might be possible to do something ad hoc during a play and for the play to only "break" when and if that ad hoc action has put someone out of position for next action, if any.

But the two examples above concern the final stage of their plays, and doing a manual P&R as described doesn't actually break the play.

Hopefully I've made sense here, in my description. Even if my suggestion is non feasible or short sighted.

Thanks, again, for having such an in-depth dialog with us here.