AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

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  • Yeah...THAT Guy
    Once in a Lifetime Memory
    • Dec 2006
    • 17294

    #61
    Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

    Originally posted by Baebae32
    Again if these help defenders stop just shy of the lane line on their rotations instead of sitting under the rim then they would be in perfect position to assist on drive if needed while also being able to provide some sort of contest on the corner jumper. That is really the main thing that needs to be addressed imo
    Yeah, this is something that I pointed out on Reddit or YouTube or something when that original defense blog was posted. Seems like they have the right idea of making guys that are two passes away sag off a little more, but they said in the blog that the point was that they'd help while still being in position to get out on shooters if a skip pass was thrown. It seemed obvious to me at the time, and even moreso now, that help defenders are currently wayyyy overdoing it on the help defense.
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    • wisdom less13
      Pro
      • Jun 2005
      • 992

      #62
      Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

      They said they could fix this stuff with tuning, just like a roster update right?
      METS. NY FOOTBALL GIANTS. PENGUINS. HURRICANE FOOTBALL. LEBRON.

      Franchise Mode Enthusiast.
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      • xCoachDx
        MVP
        • Aug 2015
        • 1295

        #63
        Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

        It's the exact same thing that happened last year where the defender in the ballside corner comes over to help defend the roll man, which is NOT (extreme caps) where the help should come from!!!!!!! It should come from the weak side, meaning the corner OPPOSITE of the ball handler's direction. It is much more difficult for the ball handler to make a pass going to his left, across the court to his right. This is been in the game for at least the last three years and I have NO idea who thinks this is correct.

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        • jfsolo
          Live Action, please?
          • May 2003
          • 12965

          #64
          Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

          The AI issues, both intentional(overly User-centric gameplay focus) and unintentional make MyCareer a non starter for me. I don't know how anyone who likes playing good fundamental basketball can stand to play it.

          In the normal 5v5 games I do feel like making your own defensive adjustments can ameliorate it quite a bit. I probably only see it about 4 or 5 times a game now, but hopefully they can tweak something in the logic of those players to make it less extreme.

          Even if he's right in principle, I think that OG should acquiesce to the communities wishes on this issue and not have that defender ever sag that deep into the paint on those plays.
          Jordan Mychal Lemos
          @crypticjordan

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          • Cavs2016
            Rookie
            • Oct 2015
            • 391

            #65
            Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

            Originally posted by Baebae32
            Again if these help defenders stop just shy of the lane line on their rotations instead of sitting under the rim then they would be in perfect position to assist on drive if needed while also being able to provide some sort of contest on the corner jumper. That is really the main thing that needs to be addressed imo
            This 100%.

            Comment

            • ch46647
              MVP
              • Aug 2006
              • 3515

              #66
              Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

              Originally posted by jfsolo
              The AI issues, both intentional(overly User-centric gameplay focus) and unintentional make MyCareer a non starter for me. I don't know how anyone who likes playing good fundamental basketball can stand to play it.

              In the normal 5v5 games I do feel like making your own defensive adjustments can ameliorate it quite a bit. I probably only see it about 4 or 5 times a game now, but hopefully they can tweak something in the logic of those players to make it less extreme.

              Even if he's right in principle, I think that OG should acquiesce to the communities wishes on this issue and not have that defender ever sag that deep into the paint on those plays.
              Agreed. This should be able to be resolved fairly easily by making two changes to the AI programming.

              1. Play tight on elite shooters, and do not leave them to rotate. (Maybe 85+ or 90+ three-point rating)

              2. When defenders do sag to help, program them to be a foot or two outside the lane. They should never be under the basket or standing in the paint.

              Comment

              • PhantomLord
                Rookie
                • Jul 2004
                • 186

                #67
                Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

                Originally posted by ch46647
                Agreed. This should be able to be resolved fairly easily by making two changes to the AI programming.

                1. Play tight on elite shooters, and do not leave them to rotate. (Maybe 85+ or 90+ three-point rating)

                2. When defenders do sag to help, program them to be a foot or two outside the lane. They should never be under the basket or standing in the paint.
                Here's the problem... The game was patched how many times last year? This was NEVER addressed. 2K simply doesn't see that the defense is fundamentally broken somewhere in the programming.

                For the second straight year this is happening, and I see people in every thread concerning it defending the game and ignoring it. HOW!?!? How can people not see how broken this is?

                I will say it doesn't appear to be happening as often as it did in 2K17, but it's still happening and it just shouldn't be. There is NO situation in real basketball where you literally run AWAY from your man to stand somewhere that nobody is near just to watch your guy shoot a wide open 3. It's NOT basketball. It is broken.

                Comment

                • Fuimus Troes
                  Rookie
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 266

                  #68
                  Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

                  So, I play MyGM exclusively. Offline vs. CPU, back and forth between Pro and All Star, no slider changes. Here's what has me frustrated about my teammates' defense...

                  1) First man back runs straight to the basket and stands under the rim, EVERY DAMN TIME. This completely breaks -- a term I don't use lightly -- transition D rotations and accounts for at least 3 or 4 wide open 3's a game. And from what I've seen so far, the CPU almost never misses wide open 3's. This was, IMO, the single most broken thing about last year's game (offline vs. CPU), and it hasn't changed AT ALL. Horribly disappointing...

                  2) Players who aren't "excellent" defenders seem to be completely lobotomized on help/rotations/working through screens. I like that "defense now matters," the battle cry of lots of people on this forum, but HOW it's been made to matter seems cheap. There seems to be very little middle ground: if your guy ain't Gary Payton or DeAndre Jordan and you're not controlling him, he WILL get lost for no reason, leave his guy alone for no reason, rotate for no reason, etc...

                  3) CPU offensive rebounding is -- again, a term I don't use lightly -- completely overpowered. I suppose sliders can fix this, but damn: you play stellar D, for a change none of your guys leave you hung out to dry like a Madden FB on a sweep play, but nope -- Gordan Heyward plays volleyball with himself under the rim after the miss.

                  4) Even when I move D adjustments to tight/smother on ball and deny off ball, and THEN pick "no threes" on the fly, the CPU still gets open for 3's -- not all the time, but way more often than they should.


                  NOW, to be fair...

                  I suspect that Team Chemistry has a nasty overpowering effect in MyGM, and that some (much?) of this is probably tied to that. Last few games , which have been horribly frustrating, have been at the beginning of season 2 with a rebuilt Knicks squad. My team has the top 2 rookies, the stud SF and the stud PG, both in the low-mid 80's with great D. My other 3 starters and key bench guys are all super young in the mid-high 70's. Being young, all probably have lower D awareness, and my team chemistry is in the 50's. It seems like EVERY other team in the entire league has team chemistry in the 90's, which is stupid.

                  So my ultimate take is this: broken transition D (statue guy under the rim) is still there; "defense matters" has crippled average defenders, especially off the ball; coaching adjustments are hit and miss -- some guys just don't listen; and team chemistry exacerbates it all.

                  Ultimately, I'd love to play games to get the team chemistry up, but I find it too frustrating. I might just sim until chemistry is in the 80's. MAN, I wish MyGM had manual saves...

                  Comment

                  • GisherJohn24
                    MVP
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 4596

                    #69
                    Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

                    I turn help defense to 5 or 0 in my coach settings slider. Huge improvement for me anyway. The lower the better imo

                    Comment

                    • Scofield
                      Pro
                      • May 2014
                      • 523

                      #70
                      Re: AI defense is broken.. again..

                      Originally posted by DC
                      What should defensive mishaps look like?

                      We keep saying what it SHOULDN'T look like but nobody ever says what it looks like
                      Given the clips the OP showed, this tack doesn't make much sense to me. The game actually does a good job of organically producing mistakes in many situations (which has made calling plays a real joy this year). That's part of the reason why those clips stand out so much. Also, the action is exaggerated to the point that it looks like a glitch. The real question anyone trying to replicate reality should always ask is: Does this break suspension of disbelief (given what your viewer/user expects to see)? If so, consider revising.

                      Comment

                      • 335TDC
                        Rookie
                        • Aug 2016
                        • 352

                        #71
                        Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

                        My CPU guys often run into each other and get stuck on each other. When the CPU nails ANOTHER ****ING WIDE OPEN 3 even though I have help d off and "no 3's" chosen, I go to instant replay and revel in that deliciousness.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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                        • 335TDC
                          Rookie
                          • Aug 2016
                          • 352

                          #72
                          Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

                          My best experience so far has been on Pro, with CPU shooting and offensive rebounding sliders down to 48, help D set to 5/100 in coach settings, and in game d adjustments set globally to tight both on and off ball with deny for any player who's a good 3 pt shooter. I play full court D to fix my players' running back and chatting with reporters in press row. Then I institute some house rules like having to run actual plays half the time (in lieu of PnR every time) and having to play on ball D every other possession (instead of floating w a big).

                          This has saved the game for me. CPU cheese has been greatly reduced. I will try these settings on All Pro soon.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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                          • Hellquist
                            Pro
                            • Oct 2012
                            • 558

                            #73
                            Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

                            This Otto Porter defense needs to go, period. I don't care what the explanation. It's ****ing stupid. The AI teammates you have are still stupid. Half the time they don't hustle, get rebounds, play defense, etc. Just like 2K17.

                            2K cheese at its finest. I am tired of doing all the work myself. Corner 3's are OP, so it's going to go in 99% of the time even people with D and F grades.

                            Comment

                            • HoustonHarden
                              Rookie
                              • Sep 2017
                              • 210

                              #74
                              Re: AI defense is broken.. again..

                              Originally posted by DC
                              So how often should this happen?
                              whats the defenders defensive consistency rating is the question OP should be asking. People disregard individual ratings and think CPU defenders are supposed to stay on their main all day.

                              Comment

                              • whatitisinsports
                                Banned
                                • Mar 2006
                                • 355

                                #75
                                Re: AI Defense Sometimes Getting Lost On Help Defense For No Reason

                                Originally posted by RxBis
                                This is so frusrtaing to play MyCareer.. the AI defense is horrible , going inside the paint for no reason leaving guys wide open on the 3p peremiter.

                                Happens on defense and offense, and besides, i think this year teams really abandoned inside plays. im a paint protector and if i get 1 block in an entire game im happy, its 24/7 of shooting threes.

                                This is just one example,now imagine this happening 20 times in a game :



                                edit : more examples :



                                This is one huge reason I am constantly frustrated with this game and call it the worst 2k ever (it looks great tho), it's like how does anyone not see it?? And because every game mode has cpu, it's constantly present.

                                Sent from my Nexus 6P using Operation Sports mobile app

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