Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

[howardphillips214]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Playmaking Slashers trigger contacts just fine. So do Slashing Shot Creators.


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I've tested it, the "explosive" layup package is the biggest culprit. While it definitely has its advantages, you tend to go into layup animations more often. I've switched to Tank and have been having much more success. I'm actually looking forward to running point more on my playmaking slasher.

Hmu sometime tho sleep!

[HowDareI]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Here's my take:

All pg's should have the same (base) stats.

Same as sg's, sf's, pf's, c's...

By this I mean EVERY point guard (for example) should get an 80 rated 3 point shot (base).
Let's say, as you level up and unlock upgrade slots you can use that to raise the cap of your 3 point rating. I could go more in depth, but that would be for 2k to decide.
Like, doing practices and playing games etc raises your cap in 18, same theory next year but you can choose what you up instead of 2k telling you a preset group of attributes.

Now, when you create your player you choose his playstyle. This would dictate badges ONLY. Height, weight, wingspan etc can still effect caps to like speed and strength as it would be unfair to be 6'8 and as fast as a 6' guy...unless you wanna use your caps you unlock to put it into speed.

So at an 80 overall, you have a playmaker and a sharp with the same attributes, but different badges that help enhance what he can do.

I feel like this would give more freedom to the way we upgrade, choosing which attributes to unlock, while also staying within an archetype system.

I see no downsides other than balancing certain badges like limitless range. But also would allow a "sharpshooter" to get to be a real 3 and d player or also able to drive if they wanted.





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[djgenius]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Archetypes been here for what 3 years? I think people are about done with them and it’s good for games that come out every year to change stuff up anyway


At first i liked unlocking attributes in sets via 2k16. Then by 2k18 they decided that they unlock in specific order and were not allowed to decide that order. That was cool until it became clear that certain archetypes are just better than others. 90% of guards 6’ 5” and below pick between only about 4 archetypes and 90% of bigs are only picking from about 4 archetypes. There’s no variety.

I think it’s time to go back to unrestricted upgrading. This would eliminate archetypes. If someone wants to make a 7’ 3” 300 pound center with 99 speed then so be it. That means their strength will probably be under 50 or they’ll be sacrificing from somewhere very important. If a guy wants 99 3ball and dunk so be it. He’s probably sacrificing defensively, and on playmaking. Aka his passes will be highly inaccurate and he should lose the ball a fair amount if he tries to do fancy moves

I think this system truely allows someone to create players like Giannis, and Ben Simmons and still provides a balance because if you make your player fit those builds then you will probably have similar deficiencies.


That would probably make the game arcadey and unbearable for some but let’s be honest it’s borderline unbearable right now anyway. I’d rather i have 100% control and it be unbearable than i have 60% control and it be unbearable. This game is gonna be played in an arcade style anyway by the community so why lie to ourselves? Let’s say every player gets 70 attribute upgrade up to 99 then when you hit 99 you get 10 more instantly. That gives ppl a HUGE incentive to upgrade all the way to 99 because right now the only incentive is having your name on a wall NOBODY cares about and rising your gold badges to HOF


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the only thing i agree with is that my player should be any height for any position...if i want my point guard to be a seven footer, then leave me at it...ben simmons is 6'10...lebron came in the league as a 6'8 PG...durant is a seven foot sf...

[Housh123]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

the only thing i agree with is that my player should be any height for any position...if i want my point guard to be a seven footer, then leave me at it...ben simmons is 6'10...lebron came in the league as a 6'8 PG...durant is a seven foot sf...

Idc anymore lol

2k is so arcadey right now let’s do it


If you can’t make it truely balanced then give EVERYONE the tools to compete and not just the ppl who chose one of the four archetypes that are even worth picking


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[howardphillips214]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

the only thing i agree with is that my player should be any height for any position...if i want my point guard to be a seven footer, then leave me at it...ben simmons is 6'10...lebron came in the league as a 6'8 PG...durant is a seven foot sf...

Sure, fine. You wanna make a 20 foot PG for my career, go right ahead. That dude has no business coming online tho.

Oh, and Simmons and lebron are both forwards. They play better than most points but they're not 1 guards.

I'm just saying that online needs more restrictions in some areas, but lee way in others.

Giving pure sharps 99 off the dribble and silver difficults with GOLD tireless killed the shot creator build almost entirely.

My pure slasher has no mid or 3 ball.

My pure play maker has 63 driving dunk.

I just feel like ratings need to be looked at again.

[JustCallMeSleepy]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

I've tested it, the "explosive" layup package is the biggest culprit. While it definitely has its advantages, you tend to go into layup animations more often. I've switched to Tank and have been having much more success. I'm actually looking forward to running point more on my playmaking slasher.



Hmu sometime tho sleep!

Got you, brother!


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[kdurantmvp]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

I like the idea of choosing the player you want to model your player after. Then your max stats is determined by that and also the badges.


So let's say I choose 96 Jordan as my player. That mean whatever his attributes were, those are my maxes. So I should recieve a 99 mid range but maybe a 65 3.



This Jordan should have relentless finisher on HOF, so will I.


Catch my drift?


This way, it allows us to really be legendary while also having certain limitations. Yeah I chose Mike as my player but that don't mean I can just splash threes all game. Or if you choose curry, you can splash 3s all game long but your defense isn't worth anything


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[howardphillips214]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Sharps should never finish. Lol when the last time Kyle korver went in strong? Maybe when he was in his 20s he could spring past his man. But he also wasn't a super threat from deep like he became in his later years. I'd say Curry is way more of a shot creator with an insane 3 ball. That build is not currently possible, as when you create hybrids you become less specialized. I never understood how sharps were so versatile this year as they can pull off the bounce better sometimes. My buddy hardly misses his leaning corner 3sand that's with a hand in his face! Curry doesn't do that 6times a game in 12 minute quarters!

We REALLY need more restrictions in certain areas (bigs should never get a 60 3 ball if they're not 3 point shooters, they can glitch dribble moves and layups too!) but i can see some caps being RAISED.

i think every guard should have a 70 3 ball. That way i can make whatever specialist i want and STILL be a threat from outside. That's the ONLY way guards can be effective in this game. But if i wanna boom, let me boom.

[Housh123]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

If they can’t balance it they need to go unrestricted

That way no one can complain about sharps being too crazy because guess what any build can have 99 3ball If it sacrifices something


Oh you suck on D?

Not anymore because going unrestricted anyone can have 99 lateral quickness and steal. If you don’t it’s because you didn’t want to


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[Vroman]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Before saying archetypes this and that you gotta realize its not the main culprit why gameplay is so bad in park/pro am in this game. If you put casual sliders on top of 99 ratings/hof badges it becomes a circus offense and no defense can negate it . If they'd put something like superstar difficulty sliders then archetypes would become way more balanced. Pure sharp would still be best shooter statistically , but it wouldn't be so easy to use one when tougher kind of threes don't go in all the time anymore and most common choices would be mixed archs that can do multiple things according to the situation.

If you wanna see how unrestricted players look like, take a look into myteam where top cards can take fading deep range threes and dunk on 3 guys. If thats what you want , I hope 2k never listen to you.

[Housh123]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Before saying archetypes this and that you gotta realize its not the main culprit why gameplay is so bad in park/pro am in this game. If you put casual sliders on top of 99 ratings/hof badges it becomes a circus offense and no defense can negate it . If they'd put something like superstar difficulty sliders then archetypes would become way more balanced. Pure sharp would still be best shooter statistically , but it wouldn't be so easy to use one when tougher kind of threes don't go in all the time anymore and most common choices would be mixed archs that can do multiple things according to the situation.

If you wanna see how unrestricted players look like, take a look into myteam where top cards can take fading deep range threes and dunk on 3 guys. If thats what you want , I hope 2k never listen to you.

It’s like the question Is do want it trash and restricted or trash and unrestricted?


Cause right now it’s biased towards shooters




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[Vroman]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

We can't really evaluate archetype system when foundation (sliders and some gameplay mechanics) is terrible and just giving all 99 ratings isn't a ultimate fix to the game at all is what i mean.

[djgenius]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

im for this...get rid of the archetypes and use a point system...we can only attain a certain number of points, so u cant be ALL 99...you just have to sacrifice other parts of your game if you are gonna max certain attributes...and to max some attributes cost more than others...for example one point in the threes attribute moves the needle much less than one point in the strength attribute or the vertical attribute....especially when you start to approach the mid 80s to 90s

[Nwordbelike]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Beside the actual archetypes, Why they don't propose selections of real superstars and atypical players but restricted ?

I mean if you choose to create a player based on Porzingis you won't get 99 overall and fancy moves and hall of fame badges


You will get his max attributes barely modifiable if you change heigt, wingspan, weight etc

[El_Poopador]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Here's my take:

All pg's should have the same (base) stats.

Same as sg's, sf's, pf's, c's...

By this I mean EVERY point guard (for example) should get an 80 rated 3 point shot (base).
Let's say, as you level up and unlock upgrade slots you can use that to raise the cap of your 3 point rating. I could go more in depth, but that would be for 2k to decide.
Like, doing practices and playing games etc raises your cap in 18, same theory next year but you can choose what you up instead of 2k telling you a preset group of attributes.

Now, when you create your player you choose his playstyle. This would dictate badges ONLY. Height, weight, wingspan etc can still effect caps to like speed and strength as it would be unfair to be 6'8 and as fast as a 6' guy...unless you wanna use your caps you unlock to put it into speed.

So at an 80 overall, you have a playmaker and a sharp with the same attributes, but different badges that help enhance what he can do.

I feel like this would give more freedom to the way we upgrade, choosing which attributes to unlock, while also staying within an archetype system.

I see no downsides other than balancing certain badges like limitless range. But also would allow a "sharpshooter" to get to be a real 3 and d player or also able to drive if they wanted.





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I disagree with this for skill-based attributes. An 80 3pt rating (or whatever skill-based attribute you want to use) doesn't accurately represent all players at that position. Look at someone like Rondo. During his Boston years, he was an awesome PG: great at handling the ball and getting teammates involved, ridiculous passer and defender, but he was an awful shooter.

For athleticism, I definitely like the idea. You should start with the league average for your position in non-skilled attributes like speed, vertical, lateral quickness, etc. You should also be either average or slightly above average in skill-based attributes for your primary archetype, and just about average for your secondary archetype. This would allow you to compete with other NBA players at your position, while still maintaining the playstyle for your selected archetype(s).