My frustration has finally happened

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  • VDusen04
    Hall Of Fame
    • Aug 2003
    • 13028

    #46
    Re: My frustration has finally happened

    Originally posted by CelticBalla32
    Half the comments I see about this are people complaining about their success on specific difficult levels.

    If you play on All-Star and you hate your life and get mad.... then play on Pro.

    I personally love 2K19's gameplay. It forces you to play smart basketball. People are upset because it's "too hard" which means their knowledge of basketball is probably not what they believe it is.
    I think there's different kinds of "too hard". I typically don't mind getting beaten by better basketball. But I do have an issue when I'm beaten by programmed compensations.

    In 2K17, I still have nightmares of timing a block attempt perfectly with Ben Wallace, only for the game to choose a conveniently slow jumping animation that'd allow an offensive player to narrowly slip a layup over his finger tips.

    In 2K18, that compensation came in the form of nerfed point blank jump hooks and shot attempts in the paint to balance inside scoring.

    So far in 2K19, perhaps in an effort to combat what some felt to be drives that were too accessible and successful in 2K18, there seems to be some over-compensation in terms of defensive sliding, limited offensive explosion, and a touch of the ol' brick wall defensive routine. Moreover, I've experienced some games so far where my point guard can't even reliably call a play without leaving the ball briefly exposed and having it poked away.

    Those compensations aren't better basketball. Rather, they're just handicaps to prevent folks from being too effective. And I get it, you sort of need those handicaps when you're trying to create a balanced video game simulation of a real life activity, but they're handicaps nonetheless.

    I'm still in the midst of feeling 2K19 out so I'm not ready to make any sweeping conclusions (I've been doing a lot of roster editing instead). As it stands right now, Pro seems to be way too easy of a difficulty but All-Star seems to start introducing a lot more video game fixes as opposed to improved computer basketball tendencies (Chauncey Billups suddenly can't protect the basketball and call a play at the same time on one end, defenders constantly lose their man via backdoor cut and watch the opposing point guard rifle 50-foot passes on the money for point blank layups as a result on the other).

    When it's all said and done, I'm hoping I can find a suitable balance with sliders, but I can comfortably say that I don't think my issue is related to a supposed lack of basketball knowledge and understanding.
    Last edited by VDusen04; 10-06-2018, 02:49 PM.

    Comment

    • strawberryshortcake
      MVP
      • Sep 2009
      • 2438

      #47
      Re: My frustration has finally happened

      Spoiler contains quotes about not being able to call plays while in protect mode.
      Spoiler

      Originally posted by Nomdeguerre
      I genuinely hope this won't be the ultimate resolution to the protect-ball + playcalling bug. You can't call plays while dribbling? That's so lame.
      Technically, you can still call plays while dribbling, just probably not if you're standing completely still. Yes, once you activate the play calling system despite holding onto L2, you lose the ball protect mechanism. I probably just haven't figured out how to still protect the ball while calling a play.

      The following video is calling a play while dribbling. I don't recall if I held L2 (ball protect). I know I over did the movements a bit; it was purposely done to show an exaggeration of the solution. So this is a variation on what I would do when calling plays. If I do call a play it's normally before I cross half court, then improvise when needed. Or if necessary during half-court but I don't stand still. I move around a bit to activate play-calling.

      A second thing you could probably do (it feels like it) is to pass the ball to the teammate and get it right back and that sometimes stops the defender from hugging up on you.

      That's actually one of my pet-peeves in years past (and probably still) is that the CPU ball handler simply stands stills calling a play instead trying to do it while being active (i.e. fake a dribble drive, etc.).

      <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UsuAbflbrB4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>



      Originally posted by VDusen04
      Spoiler

      So far in 2K19, perhaps in an effort to combat what some felt to be drives that were too accessible and successful in 2K18, there seems to be some over-compensation in terms of defensive sliding, limited offensive explosion, and a touch of the ol' brick wall defensive routine. Moreover, I've experienced some games so far where my point guard can't even reliably call a play without leaving the ball briefly exposed and having it poked away.

      Those compensations aren't better basketball. Rather, they're just handicaps to prevent folks from being too effective. And I get it, you sort of need those handicaps when you're trying to create a balanced video game simulation of a real life activity, but they're handicaps nonetheless.
      Spoiler
      You know, more often than not (default settings, still playing the game unpatched) I have to check the game itself and settings just to make sure I'm still on HOF and still playing NBA2k19 because I feel like I can still blow by the defenders at ease sometimes. Often I would revisit those moments in replay mode just to see me completely leave the CPU HOF in the dust with one or two dribble move, and sometimes it was simply a quick first step.

      The first time I heard of the "brick wall phenomenon" was a few years ago. I always wonder if that was simply coined by lesser skilled players not being able to get around defenders. And I personally do consider myself a lesser skilled player, but I do feel the existing on-ball defense or "lack there of" from the CPU is about right.

      My biggest issue with 2k basketball in general is that I've come to realize that "awareness" is actually 2k's biggest weakness; it's their weakest link.
      Last edited by strawberryshortcake; 10-06-2018, 03:50 PM.
      Fixes
      NBA2k Defense AI,Footplant, Gameplay
      MLB Show Pitching/throwing
      Madden/Live Animations Walking, Throwing

      Comment

      • VDusen04
        Hall Of Fame
        • Aug 2003
        • 13028

        #48
        Re: My frustration has finally happened

        Originally posted by strawberryshortcake
        You know, more often than not (default settings, still playing the game unpatched) I have to check the game itself and settings just to make sure I'm still on HOF and still playing NBA2k19 because I feel like I can still blow by the defenders at ease sometimes. Often I would revisit those moments in replay mode just to see me completely leave the CPU HOF in the dust with one or two dribble move, and sometimes it was simply a quick first step.

        The first time I heard of the "brick wall phenomenon" was a few years ago. I always wonder if that was simply coined by lesser skilled players not being able to get around defenders. And I personally do consider myself a lesser skilled player, but I do feel the existing on-ball defense or "lack there of" from the CPU is about right.

        My biggest issue with 2k basketball in general is that I've come to realize that "awareness" is actually 2k's biggest weakness; it's their weakest link.
        I, too, am a relatively unskilled 2K player. I'm not helpless, but I'm not a guy who's going to master all the in's, out's, and glitches that'll help me climb an online leaderboard.

        That said, my issues with eluding defenders in what I feel to be a realistic manner have pretty much fluctuated from year-to-year since 2K11. I thought offensive movement felt great for its time in 2K11, then we were hit with the magic sliding defense in 2K12. (Then I skipped a few years.)

        By the time I came back in 2K17, I'm not sure I'd ever been more frustrated by a movement system. That year, it seemed like a significant portion of moves, timings, and weight shifts that'd usually induce an advantage in real life were all snuffed out by a defense that seemed to magically predict what you were doing the moment you hit the sticks.

        I thought 2K18 was a breath of fresh air because I once again felt a freedom of movement that reminded me what it felt like to run the floor and operate in real life. Now, in 2K19 at the moment (again, only a few games in), it seems like a hint of the magic, superspeed slide defense is back, alongside a frequent inability to gain an edge when it appears an edge would typically be gain-able.

        The issue, for me, comes when I have to stop thinking like a basketball player and instead think like a 2K19 player.

        For instance, in the clip below, when Chucky Atkins decides to step out and pick up peak Baron Davis 28 feet away from the hoop, he should be opening himself up to some unsavory consequences. Unfortunately, the moment Davis' potential advantage is recognized and acted upon (size-up dribble and set-up for elusive maneuver), Atkins' feet magically slide backward at first before his entire body suddenly jets back toward the paint, allowing him to pressure one of the league's all-time great ball handlers nearly 30 feet from the hoop while at the same time giving nothing up and even staying in perfect position to contest a jumper.

        <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QLJ97ZQ9D2I" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

        I don't mind a little foot sliding if it's just ugly to look at. But I do have an issue when it means results that should be based off of things like momentum, inertia, weight shifting, and balance are instead decided by a game that wants to negate a correctly acknowledged advantage for the sake of difficulty or proverbial balance.
        Last edited by VDusen04; 10-06-2018, 05:48 PM.

        Comment

        • DonWuan
          MVP
          • Oct 2010
          • 1756

          #49
          Re: My frustration has finally happened

          Originally posted by CelticBalla32
          Half the comments I see about this are people complaining about their success on specific difficult levels.

          If you play on All-Star and you hate your life and get mad.... then play on Pro.

          I personally love 2K19's gameplay. It forces you to play smart basketball. People are upset because it's "too hard" which means their knowledge of basketball is probably not what they believe it is.
          Think we all interpret previous post differently. I have no issues competing with the CPU but the tactics that need to be used is frustrating. There is very little "smart basketball" in this game. It's more of a animations game vs anything else. CPU defending me doesn't actually defend vs

          Good/great D is not rewarded. In my game, good defense turns into easy baskets for the cpu at a high percentage. Full court passes to players under the rim frustrates folks. Slow down animations (fast breaks, layup, spot up jumpers etc). Arms flopping around when contesting shots that avoided the ball at all cost.

          Micro movements under the rim while guarding CPU players. Offenseive rebounding and put backs that leave you helpless contending. Any CPU player with pick pocket bronze flips a switch when youre not holding protect button. Who designs these bandaid fixes. I'm assuming they think we are stupid.


          The generic CPU on offense that run the same 3 plays over and over. Play against 76ers, Lakers or toronto. Players shooting like Curry with low 60s in 3pt range. Everyone should feel some type of way with at least CPU reaction speed to everything.

          I'm offline only since 2k released on PC. I can't find a happy medium just yet. I can win on hof but that doesn't resemble bball. Currently playing on modified superstar sliders.

          If you don't want to frustrated don't look at replay ultimately I run with Kings, Okc and pacers.
          Last edited by DonWuan; 10-06-2018, 06:18 PM.

          Comment

          • olajuwon34
            Pro
            • Aug 2017
            • 681

            #50
            Re: My frustration has finally happened

            Originally posted by CelticBalla32
            Half the comments I see about this are people complaining about their success on specific difficult levels.

            If you play on All-Star and you hate your life and get mad.... then play on Pro.

            I personally love 2K19's gameplay. It forces you to play smart basketball. People are upset because it's "too hard" which means their knowledge of basketball is probably not what they believe it is.
            It forces the USER to play smart basketball, but doesnt do the same for the CPU. Does your knowledge of basketball include the ball handler fumbling the ball dribbling his way to the paint, then picking his dribble up and still being able to shoot a shot facing his man not posted? literally the cpu will fumble its way into the paint with whatever player multiple times during a game, then chuck up any sort of shot and it will go down, most the time sabotaging your cpu's defense so the shot will go down.


            I mean, forcing the opposing CPU into a tight shot at the end of the shot clock contested, is still considered a good shot for them by this games standards.

            Comment

            • DonWuan
              MVP
              • Oct 2010
              • 1756

              #51
              Re: My frustration has finally happened

              Originally posted by olajuwon34
              It forces the USER to play smart basketball, but doesnt do the same for the CPU. Does your knowledge of basketball include the ball handler fumbling the ball dribbling his way to the paint, then picking his dribble up and still being able to shoot a shot facing his man not posted? literally the cpu will fumble its way into the paint with whatever player multiple times during a game, then chuck up any sort of shot and it will go down, most the time sabotaging your cpu's defense so the shot will go down.


              I mean, forcing the opposing CPU into a tight shot at the end of the shot clock contested, is still considered a good shot for them by this games standards.


              1 of the many things and I agree 100%

              Comment

              • kirbz101
                Rookie
                • Apr 2013
                • 20

                #52
                Re: My frustration has finally happened

                I say bad words whenever I play this game lol.. Too much cheating. The CPU's defense is insane so as the offense. I hope they patch it to make it more realistic.

                Comment

                • Goffs
                  New Ork Giants
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 12279

                  #53
                  Re: My frustration has finally happened

                  Originally posted by olajuwon34
                  It forces the USER to play smart basketball, but doesnt do the same for the CPU. Does your knowledge of basketball include the ball handler fumbling the ball dribbling his way to the paint, then picking his dribble up and still being able to shoot a shot facing his man not posted? literally the cpu will fumble its way into the paint with whatever player multiple times during a game, then chuck up any sort of shot and it will go down, most the time sabotaging your cpu's defense so the shot will go down.


                  I mean, forcing the opposing CPU into a tight shot at the end of the shot clock contested, is still considered a good shot for them by this games standards.
                  Speaking of end of shot clock that shot clock cheese that plagued the game years ago is in full effect this year. The CPU will hit those shots at a very high rate.

                  Zig zag cheese and pick and shoot are all back. I guess this is what happens when we get a new motion engine. I hate to think what happens when they introduce footplanting. P

                  Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

                  Comment

                  • m29a
                    Rookie
                    • Aug 2011
                    • 368

                    #54
                    Re: My frustration has finally happened

                    At the end of the day, the super physical on-ball defense of 2K19 simply isn't realistic. I can't see how anyone could argue otherwise if they regularly watch the real games. The CPU defender is able to instantly react to your inputs and deny the drive way too often, even if they're out of position by playing way too close and hugging up on you. These body checks that the CPU does would be a foul 90% of the time in real life. It's beyond frustrating, even with certain slider edits that I've made. It feels like 2K17 all over again.

                    Comment

                    • VDusen04
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 13028

                      #55
                      Re: My frustration has finally happened

                      Originally posted by m29a
                      At the end of the day, the super physical on-ball defense of 2K19 simply isn't realistic. I can't see how anyone could argue otherwise if they regularly watch the real games. The CPU defender is able to instantly react to your inputs and deny the drive way too often, even if they're out of position by playing way too close and hugging up on you. These body checks that the CPU does would be a foul 90% of the time in real life. It's beyond frustrating, even with certain slider edits that I've made. It feels like 2K17 all over again.
                      Yeah, it's a bit much. All I wanted to do here was run in a straight line with no one in front of me. It seemed like any moment I had an edge (you can see two or three times where I've clearly gained a step), the game would correct itself and make the defender tussle and magically re-gain position.

                      <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nIrAeDj0JDE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                      Aside from the impossible-to-elude positioning, how is none of this a foul?

                      Comment

                      • Detroit Red
                        Rookie
                        • Sep 2016
                        • 124

                        #56
                        Re: My frustration has finally happened

                        It's good to know I'm not the only one having issues with the AI difficulty.

                        I had to swallow my pride going from HOF to Superstar and finally settling on All-Star and I still struggle to keep up with the AI.

                        In previous 2ks my win percentage was probably around 50 percent and I loved the competitive nature of default sliders HOF. Losses were still enjoyable because I probably didn't run the right plays or adjust to get myself back in the game.

                        Either I've lost a few steps and my skill level has regressed in a major way or the computer is being extra extra.

                        I honestly think 2k19 is great and I love so many things about it but instead of looking forward to booting the game up, I actually dread playing my Clippers MyLeague save because whether I'm playing the Warriors or the Suns I know the AI will likely shoot in excess of 50% and give me a hard time regardless of the match up.

                        Comment

                        • jfsolo
                          Live Action, please?
                          • May 2003
                          • 12965

                          #57
                          Re: My frustration has finally happened

                          Originally posted by VDusen04
                          Yeah, it's a bit much. All I wanted to do here was run in a straight line with no one in front of me. It seemed like any moment I had an edge (you can see two or three times where I've clearly gained a step), the game would correct itself and make the defender tussle and magically re-gain position.



                          Aside from the impossible-to-elude positioning, how is none of this a foul?
                          It's unconscionable that the game allows that to happen without a foul being called. H2H design and tuning has corrupted core gameplay to the point where basic real basketball situations play out in an absurd fashion.
                          Jordan Mychal Lemos
                          @crypticjordan

                          Do this today: Instead of $%*#!@& on a game you're not going to play or movie you're not going to watch, say something good about a piece of media you're excited about.

                          Do the same thing tomorrow. And the next. Now do it forever.

                          Comment

                          • Richardcg
                            Rookie
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 124

                            #58
                            Re: My frustration has finally happened

                            I agree 100% with pretty much all the different frustrating things that happen in this game that everyone has posted

                            It's great to know I'm not the only one experiencing these things. I'm always told to learn how to play the game. I've been playing basketball in real life for a while now. I know how the game is supposed to be played.

                            People try to make it sound so simple, just because their ok with how the game plays. I constantly tell them it's not as simple as you make it seem.

                            Loose ball cheese, CPU pretty much always get the loose ball and have a open shot. Especially off a block.

                            Shot clock cheese, you can play good D the whole play, the CPU will shoot some desperate shot with you in their face hand up and hit up often.

                            Steal cheese, this online and offline. Online you can get a chance to protect the ball. Offline you can protect the ball but can't call a play. I use auto play calling. CPU calls the about 3 different plays, that's about it.

                            MyCarrer dumbed down teammate AI players, your players play nothing like the other team AI players. They players will run plays to perfection and get their players open shots. Your players be on some whole other stuff. Taking bad layups. Taking bad angles in the post. Dribbling right into defenders trying to force their way to the basket.
                            Sometimes when you're running a play, before you can get to your spot they have already stole it from your teammate. Teammates doesn't recognize the open man. Playing off people that can't shot means nothing, they will still hit everything.

                            Oh and the fast break stuff. Every fast break, unless it's you leading the break with result into a pull up from the free throw line. Some players are either passing it depending on the numbers or pulling up or driving straight to the basket. On here every one will stop and pop regardless of who it is.

                            I can go on, much as you try to give this game a chance, something else frustrates you. All some can say is play better. How can I play better when it's stuff like that going on. I know when I did something wrong, I'll say dang that was my fault compared to stuff like I stated happen.

                            Also who at 2k thought that just because a defender is behind you it's not considered an somewhat contested shot. You can affect someone **** if you're trying to contest it behind them.

                            The cheese that goes on in the neighborhood is unbelievable.

                            Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app

                            Comment

                            • sanmarco
                              Rookie
                              • Jan 2018
                              • 22

                              #59
                              Re: My frustration has finally happened

                              Online microtransactions (where you need to buy virtual currency to make a pass, sink jumpers & finish layups) have greatly affected/altered the gameplay model(sim/offline).

                              Why do you think the cpu is King Koopa in World 8-4 while you are an unmushroomed mario? You're always on handicap vs AI.

                              Comment

                              • Gosens6
                                All Star
                                • Oct 2007
                                • 6100

                                #60
                                Re: My frustration has finally happened

                                Being an offline only player, I’ve almost reached the end of my road with this game.

                                Playing on All Star difficulty and the AI plays the same every single game. Let’s do some ridiculous dribble moves into the paint, forcing my defender back with some invisible wall and throw up a ridiculous contact lay up animation that goes in more often than not.

                                The shot clock cheese is in full affect

                                Open shots go in WAY WAY WAY too much. I mean hell, even the best shooters In the world shoot less than 50% on wide open shots.

                                Defense seems absolutely pointless in this game. There’s no contact in the paint, and when there is, the AI will still make the most ridiculous shots that no one has any business making.

                                First time in a long time I’m completely unhappy with a 2K game. Maybe I’ll try some sliders this year to see if it can be saved.

                                But like Sage said earlier in the thread, this is the most arcade 2K game I’ve ever played


                                Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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