NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

[MrWrestling3]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Agree with all of this! These foul sliders are giving the AI guidance on what context animations have a better chance of success.

If we could document all of the relationships, then I'm sure we could come up with some good suggestions for the community on combinations to get results (more/less fouls of each type).

For sure! Just at a guess, I would say we would have to establish a solid baseline for Foul Sliders(which I think is the easier part),then go into the roster, change just 1 or 2 things,test and document,then repeat.A long process to be sure, but in the long run it should yield a chart of how everything ties together that we can use to dial in the gameplay.

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Attack vs Dish to Open Man is a more important relationship than Attack/Drive. I agree with you that having the Dish/Pass tendency higher than Attack allows the CPU to play more realistically and keeps the ball moving in half court sets. I don’t set them based on their relationship, but my scales for Dish to Open are 50-99.

Man, I could swear tendencies do not behave on a linear scale. At least those most important ones. I think its either that or ACE's thresholds for various on-court decisions/playcalling are to sensitive, which is also very possible.

The best example is setting anyone to ATTACK at 60-65, even 55. You could see him going like a capricorn towards the rim, almost never thinking about passing the ball. At least with my sliders (OBdefense 90, ballhandling 40-50). And this is where the DISH almost makes no importance!


On the other hand, when I lower the FINNISH tendency to area of 50-ish, you could see the behaviour being drastically different. Then the player usually stops at the first obstacle in the paint and looks for a free man to pass the ball. THIS is much more similar to todays NBA, if you ask me. Just take a look at these stats:

https://stats.nba.com/players/drives/?sort=DRIVE_PASSES&dir=1

Players in reality pass the ball A LOT when driving to the basket, but most of those passes arent for the open man at the three or similar, which you can observe by the value AST% which is rather low. Around 10%.



When setting FINNISH in the area of 45-50 player really behaves much differently. But do you know what was the biggest game changer for me in all my experiments I've done so far regarding drive+kick?



Its the DEFENSIVE SETTINGS!!
I really tried all permuations to determine what was the factor that made the biggest difference and it was setting all the options so to congest the paint as much as possible, so a lot of open men situations could appear!

And it really is groundbreaking, it works well for me even with very low BALL HANDLING slider, which is great for all the REACHING FOULS!

For a moment I actually though I finally found the golden cut, but, nope... No matter all the drive and kick, still the low ball handling slider just slows the game to much and low scoring becomes the new reality, which is what I dont want.


I might actually try and get deeper into the badges and non-shooting fouls experiment, you certainly got me interested with that. But, my main concern there is wheather it would distort the teams' strenght balance to much by applying those badges all over the board?



P.S. Thank you both for great insights and posts here!

[MrWrestling3]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Man, I could swear tendencies do not behave on a linear scale. At least those most important ones. I think its either that or ACE's thresholds for various on-court decisions/playcalling are to sensitive, which is also very possible.

The best example is setting anyone to ATTACK at 60-65, even 55. You could see him going like a capricorn towards the rim, almost never thinking about passing the ball. At least with my sliders (OBdefense 90, ballhandling 40-50). And this is where the DISH almost makes no importance!


On the other hand, when I lower the FINNISH tendency to area of 50-ish, you could see the behaviour being drastically different. Then the player usually stops at the first obstacle in the paint and looks for a free man to pass the ball. THIS is much more similar to todays NBA, if you ask me. Just take a look at these stats:

https://stats.nba.com/players/drives/?sort=DRIVE_PASSES&dir=1

Players in reality pass the ball A LOT when driving to the basket, but most of those passes arent for the open man at the three or similar, which you can observe by the value AST% which is rather low. Around 10%.



When setting FINNISH in the area of 45-50 player really behaves much differently. But do you know what was the biggest game changer for me in all my experiments I've done so far regarding drive+kick?



Its the DEFENSIVE SETTINGS!!
I really tried all permuations to determine what was the factor that made the biggest difference and it was setting all the options so to congest the paint as much as possible, so a lot of open men situations could appear!

And it really is groundbreaking, it works well for me even with very low BALL HANDLING slider, which is great for all the REACHING FOULS!

For a moment I actually though I finally found the golden cut, but, nope... No matter all the drive and kick, still the low ball handling slider just slows the game to much and low scoring becomes the new reality, which is what I dont want.


I might actually try and get deeper into the badges and non-shooting fouls experiment, you certainly got me interested with that. But, my main concern there is wheather it would distort the teams' strenght balance to much by applying those badges all over the board?



P.S. Thank you both for great insights and posts here!

Now this is making me wonder how it relates to the charging foul issue we've been struggling with forever... could it be charging foul slider + Tendencies + Draw Foul Attribute coming together to cause a complex issue?

Low Take Charge Tendency causing other actions to always take priority.

Incorrect Attack, Drive, and Finish Tendencies making charges less effective due to ball handlers prioritizing avoiding contact.

Charging Foul slider + Draw Foul attribute making players less likely to attempt taking a charge due to reduced likelihood of success as compared to other actions.

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I dunno man, I am just tired of all of it. Seems like there is no balanced way around. Tried a match with low ball-handling and a lot of silver badges for off-ball pest and brick wall. But with drive/kick optimized tendencies...

And the gameplay was once again just to fast and low amount of non-shooters appeared, even the illegal screens where damn low.

Maybe it would be smarter if we invest this energy in something else or make an online petition to the devs to do something about this issue.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I dunno man, I am just tired of all of it. Seems like there is no balanced way around. Tried a match with low ball-handling and a lot of silver badges for off-ball pest and brick wall. But with drive/kick optimized tendencies...

And the gameplay was once again just to fast and low amount of non-shooters appeared, even the illegal screens where damn low.

Maybe it would be smarter if we invest this energy in something else or make an online petition to the devs to do something about this issue.

I legit don’t have the issues you experience and my Ball Handling slider is at 70. I’ve tried making gameplay work with Ball Handling at 0 and moved away from it for a lot of reasons.

Not saying this game is fixable by sliders (it’s not, core issues are there) but you seem to be fighting certain battles that can be fixed.

Most of the action in this game comes down to playbooks, play types, defensive settings, and movement/contact sliders. The rest is about player style or animation selection. I’d focus on getting core gameplay right before tweaking for fouls or sim stats. I’ve been consistently at 12-17 fouls per game in CPU/CPU without anything close to ideal foul sliders. At least 3-4 illegal screen calls per game, 1-2 loose ball fouls, and lucky enough to see a shooting foul on a jumpshot once in a while (not every game though).

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

12-17 fouls per team?
how many reaching fouls?

Look, I am aware its not possible to replicate the damn nba, after all its just a game

but if im into simming then fouls ratio is super important, otherwise inside players get dramatically more free throws/fouls which distorts the strenght balance between teams. No wonder AI spams the rim knowing theres a high prob at worst a foul will get called with no fear of a charging call

And foul trouble isnt an issue

Maybe you could share your roster with me to see what have you accomplished...

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

12-17 fouls per team?
how many reaching fouls?

Look, I am aware its not possible to replicate the damn nba, after all its just a game

but if im into simming then fouls ratio is super important, otherwise inside players get dramatically more free throws/fouls which distorts the strenght balance between teams. No wonder AI spams the rim knowing theres a high prob at worst a foul will get called with no fear of a charging call

And foul trouble isnt an issue

Maybe you could share your roster with me to see what have you accomplished...

Only 1-2 reaching fouls per game because my slider settings removed most of the excessive reaching (high Ball Handling, low Steal Success).

I understand the need for fouls to be accurate, but I’ve been fighting that losing battle for half a decade with this game. It will only drive you crazy at the end of the day.

My mentality is to get the gameplay right, then stats, and then worry about the foul tweaks last if the rest is reasonable. I’ll waste a few days sometimes in a dummy MyLeague file editing and tweaking just for foul testing, but usually come away with just minor improvements that end up impacting some other areas of the game.

I think you’re on PS4 so not sure I can share roster edits directly, but I wouldn’t mind live streaming from my testing MyLeague if you wanted to see any specific areas.

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I am absolutely for it, any kind of interaction, for sure mate

I think I am giving up on fouls, eventhough, todays two games had a strange amount of reaching foul calls (at least 6 per game) with ball handling set pretty high...

Anyways, so far I guess I have to be satisfied by achieving a decent game flow.
Still, it will be pretty damn hard to swallow seeing Lakers dropping from 40% threepoint frequency in the first half to a 10% frequency in the second!


MAYBE I could mitigate this by removing TACTICIAN badge to Frank Vogel. Under the condition he even has it equipped
And also, I am hopping removing "High IQ" as a coaching style for Vogel would give some effects. But to be honest...

There's another hailmary: lowering intangibles for Lebron. I've read somewhere on the internet INT have an effect of how inclined a player is to use his biggest comparative strenghts when the going gets tough, or something like that.

I know, I know, intangibles are only an overall modifier... But I'll give myself this one last chance

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Oh, and I must not forget this (sorry for the double post, but its justifiable necessary here):

1) Is there a way to mitigate mismatches in the post, other than using "STAY ATTACHED" option in deffensive settings (which creates other problems)? I mean, this post mismatches are so frustrating to watch, I think 95% or maybe even more of them end as an easy basket and btw ACE never calls a double team in these situations (maybe bcs I have defensive playcalling on manual, but I doubt it)
JUST NEVER EVER!
This is what is most annoying with this scenario!


2) Some players are always guarded on GAP, no matter their current shooting performance etc. The best example is Russell Westbrook. He is obv perceived as a non-shooting threat by AI, which is inline with his recent real life 3p stats. But in 2K, this ends up with him suddenly turn into a 40% three-point shooter, because he's always getting wide open attempts!

And I just cant get defensive player to play tight on him or anything but GAP. Its frustrating actually to see some defensive settings get applied and some totally ignored and/or bypassed by AI in my CPU vs CPU matches!

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Oh, and I must not forget this (sorry for the double post, but its justifiable necessary here):

1) Is there a way to mitigate mismatches in the post, other than using "STAY ATTACHED" option in deffensive settings (which creates other problems)? I mean, this post mismatches are so frustrating to watch, I think 95% or maybe even more of them end as an easy basket and btw ACE never calls a double team in these situations (maybe bcs I have defensive playcalling on manual, but I doubt it)
JUST NEVER EVER!
This is what is most annoying with this scenario!


2) Some players are always guarded on GAP, no matter their current shooting performance etc. The best example is Russell Westbrook. He is obv perceived as a non-shooting threat by AI, which is inline with his recent real life 3p stats. But in 2K, this ends up with him suddenly turn into a 40% three-point shooter, because he's always getting wide open attempts!

And I just cant get defensive player to play tight on him or anything but GAP. Its frustrating actually to see some defensive settings get applied and some totally ignored and/or bypassed by AI in my CPU vs CPU matches!

That’s all ACE taking over.

Agreed on all of those observations. The only Post Double option that I’ve seen stick is when set to Dig, so I’d give that a try along with high Help Defense in the Coach Profiles. My roster also has most players equipped with at least Bronze Moving Truck and 50+ Interior Defense to prevent the AI from seeing every post mismatch as a go-to option. Feed The Post slider has been at 5 for a long time and that’s worked fine while keeping post touches for dominant bigs.

[Dosantous]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Can I get y’all to critique this proposal?

Using an online myleague as a sim play now lobby. For example:
set up a myleague (6 minute quarters)
Add Celtic (or youalreadyknow’s) sim roster and
Add shadymike sliders.
Turn off trades.
users join and leave as they please



Not exactly sure how to add a vote in post, but would appreciate any further ideas to incorporate sim and online gameplay. Reducing the commitment needed will make it more accessible, imo, and we wouldn’t need to wait for 2K to do it for us.

That's a good idea, but how does it work in terms of what games we're able to play? For example if you assign me the knicks and your in control of the sixers would we only be able to play games in which they play against each other? Is there a way we can just pick any match up on the nba schedule we'd like to play?

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Operation Sports mobile app

[duce]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

That's a good idea, but how does it work in terms of what games we're able to play? For example if you assign me the knicks and your in control of the sixers would we only be able to play games in which they play against each other? Is there a way we can just pick any match up on the nba schedule we'd like to play?

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Operation Sports mobile app

We’d need probably at least two admins to kick players and reinvite. If we make each person an admin we can just change teams as needed. One would have to leave and be reinvited.

Each game we could just reset to open matchups.

[Dosantous]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

We’d need probably at least two admins to kick players and reinvite. If we make each person an admin we can just change teams as needed. One would have to leave and be reinvited.

Oh ok that makes sense and as the admin you can change your team whenever? If its doable this idea sound dope.


Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Operation Sports mobile app

[duce]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Oh ok that makes sense and as the admin you can change your team whenever? If its doable this idea sound dope.


Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Operation Sports mobile app

It’s doable and I’ve started it. No one has joined in yet though so I’m not sure if there’s much interest.

Here: https://forums.operationsports.com/f...m-sliders.html

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I’ve tried making gameplay work with Ball Handling at 0 and moved away from it for a lot of reasons.

Going to test one more time with Ball Handling at 0 to see if I can fix the biggest issues I had with it. Feels like I’ve made enough progress with understanding other sliders to revisit since overall ball movement & gameplay did feel/look better with Ball Handling at 0.

Here were the biggest issues:
1. Pace slowed at least 5-10 possessions per game.
2. Elite iso ball handlers weren’t as effective when size ups were cut short & stepback jumpers make % went down (Harden, Kyrie, Luka, etc)
3. Finishing moves weren’t happening as often on drives for euros, spin layups, etc

Other observations on sliders:
- Strength attribute slider has always had a large impact on ability to drive through contact, but this year it especially determines the AI ball handler’s tendency to fight through contact or finish while near defenders. It impacts both drives & jump shooting. Low Strength slider = more willing to fight through contact. High Strength slider = fewer shots through contact, more passing out of drives

- Fouls on jumpshots seem to require defenders to make contact with the shooter’s arms/shoulder area. There are tons of obvious foul animations (damn near tackling) that do not get called in the game while the slightest touch on the shoulder will trigger the foul call. I’ve had the most success triggering shooting foul calls with the Jumpshot Defense Gather around 85-95 & Jumpshot Defense Release around 35-45. I’d also recommend setting On-Ball Defense to a very high level to trigger more close outs on jumpshots.

- Defensive Awareness mostly seems to control the pass reaction time for defenders and mirroring of ball handlers (which should be On-Ball Defense but isn’t). High Defensive Awareness results in more passing lane steals, more aggressive closeouts on shooters in catch and shoot scenarios, and less separation on dribble moves, sizeups, or stepbacks.

- Blocking Foul Frequency is the most aggressively backwards of the foul sliders from my testing. I’ve tried setting this at extremely low levels like 1 and 5 and it resulted in more foul calls than having it at 100. The AI on-ball defender will give up baseline & sideline with this slider set high (meaning fewer calls), but the call will be made for blocking quickly if a user defends too close to the boundary. It’s in transition where the AI gets more aggressive about riding the ball handler’s hip with this slider set extremely low. That’s where I’ve seen the increase in Blocking foul calls in CPU/CPU. It also improves transition defense (hip riding) having this slider low so I don’t see any reason to keep this above 5 or 10 in slider sets designed for CPU gameplay.