Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

[Dione2014]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I've been testing a roster I found on here done by timsmooth503pa on psn. Im not sure what he did but the P&R issues have been drastically cut down. Also driving into the paint makes sense now. You have to get his slider set to match (same psn ID). Put all the movement sliders at the bottom to 70.

I could be trippin... But I haven't been seeing silly mistakes by the CPU when guarding the pick and roll. Also you get a lot less of the CPU driving the ball right into the defense with no awareness of the defenses position. Try it out of you're on the PS5.

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[sperlz_99]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I've been testing a roster I found on here done by timsmooth503pa on psn. Im not sure what he did but the P&R issues have been drastically cut down. Also driving into the paint makes sense now. You have to get his slider set to match (same psn ID). Put all the movement sliders at the bottom to 70.

I could be trippin... But I haven't been seeing silly mistakes by the CPU when guarding the pick and roll. Also you get a lot less of the CPU driving the ball right into the defense with no awareness of the defenses position. Try it out of you're on the PS5.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Operation Sports mobile app

Sliders or rosters wont change the logic of the defense and I just tried these and they made absolutely zero difference to the issues shown in the original video.

[strosdood]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

The only real fix I’ve found that helps the last few days is editing the teams defensive settings in game, change the hedge defenders assignments a long with pick n roll defense assignments


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[Quentin32]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Czar not even answering or acknowledging any question about it smh

He would answer any damn question about ACE though lol

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

After tearing my hair out working on this for the last week, I found the fix. And it's beyond stupid how simple it is, after all the other things I tried.

To fix the hedge defender being an idiot: Set the "Play Passing Lanes" tendency to 0.

That's it. That's the fix.

Any other tweak to any other defense-related slider will just fine-tune how you want the game to play, but none of them will actually affect the hedge defender logic that we're trying to fix. Tweaking the movement sliders will again fine-tune the game to how you want it to play, but is not necessary to fix this issue (though realistic movement will make it much more difficult for quick dribblers to just run around the defense in general). EVERY OTHER SLIDER can be left at whatever setting you want, it doesn't matter. Just set "Play Passing Lanes" to 0 and the vast majority of the time the hedge defender will react to the pick as if he actually realizes he's playing basketball.

Setting "Play Passing Lanes" to any higher setting will (the vast majority of the time) result in the hedge defender over-reacting away from the pick or just standing in place as you run around him, though he will be slightly quicker to react to the dribbler the closer this setting is to 0. Honestly, I don't see any benefit to increasing this slider. Just leave it at 0 and you're good to go.

[goma76]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Play passing line at 0 could reflect in less intercept ball from the defense?
I’m asking but the sense of that slider is to set the tendency of stealing ball from wrong pass.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I’ve got help Defense and defensive awareness at 100 and with passing lanes at 0 the roll man is now money. He’s open all the time. I think we just need to get a patch for the AI.

[CujoMatty]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I’ve got help Defense and defensive awareness at 100 and with passing lanes at 0 the roll man is now money. He’s open all the time. I think we just need to get a patch for the AI.

I'm at work so I cant try but do you have the cpu defense settings for on ball screen at switch(all)?

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I'm at work so I cant try but do you have the cpu defense settings for on ball screen at switch(all)?

I haven’t touched those.

[CujoMatty]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I haven’t touched those.

doing that has made the biggest difference for me but it still doesnt completely fix. I'm hoping that in combination with the play passing lane fix it will work even better but I cant try till I'm home from work.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I just wish drop coverage was better. It’s so commonly used and prevents easy buckets and I rarely see the cpu execute it. I will see “Dropping” over my head at times so I wonder if it’s just not being executed properly. I think many of us would like to see Drop used far more often and dare the mid range.

[STLRams]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Play passing line at 0 could reflect in less intercept ball from the defense?
I’m asking but the sense of that slider is to set the tendency of stealing ball from wrong pass.

I was wondering the same thing. I would still like to see good defenders steal bad passes and get some fast break points and stop easy passes into the paint?

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I was wondering the same thing. I would still like to see good defenders steal bad passes and get some fast break points and stop easy passes into the paint?

Yea if you pass it at a defender they will still steal the pass.

I just wish drop coverage was better. It’s so commonly used and prevents easy buckets and I rarely see the cpu execute it. I will see “Dropping” over my head at times so I wonder if it’s just not being executed properly. I think many of us would like to see Drop used far more often and dare the mid range.

Play Passing Lanes at 0 coupled with Contest Shots at 100 will have the screen defender either switch and play up close, double team if the on-ball defender avoids/fights through the screen quickly, or drop down into the paint to help cover both players.

Note that I also have On-Ball Defense and Lateral Quickness at 75 (helps the screen defender be more affective when he switches to defend on-ball) with Defensive Awareness, Help Defense Strength, and Drive Contact Shot Frequency at 100. But I was seeing the same decision making by the hedge defender at default Superstar and HOF settings with just the Play Passing Lanes and Contest Shot tweaks.

I’ve got help Defense and defensive awareness at 100 and with passing lanes at 0 the roll man is now money. He’s open all the time. I think we just need to get a patch for the AI.

We definitely still need a patch for the AI. But with my current settings I’m definitely not seeing the roll man as “money”. Yea some plays he’s open when the hedge over-commits and the on-ball defender doesn’t switch, but that’s basketball. Other plays the hedge drops while the on-ball defender is taken out by the screener and you have an open shot, but that’s basketball too.

The defense should never guard the PnR perfectly every single time. As long as defenders are in realistic positions and react to the play, I’m happy with it. But they still need to patch the fact that the hedge defender will normally completely ignore the dribbler during PnR when Play Passing Lanes is set to anything but 0.

I love the way the defense plays when Play Passing Lanes and Contest Shots are both at 100, except for the ridiculous logic of the hedge defender in the PnR.

[CujoMatty]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

play passing lanes at 0 helped the issue a little for sure but the side effect is I could pass the ball way too recklessly and get away with it. The cpu would pick off the odd pass but more often than not I could do cross court passes with no consequence.

Switching defensive settings to switch, although not perfect, still gets me an all around better playing game I feel. I just have to have a house rule of not constantly abusing the defence.

[sperlz_99]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Yea if you pass it at a defender they will still steal the pass.




Play Passing Lanes at 0 coupled with Contest Shots at 100 will have the screen defender either switch and play up close, double team if the on-ball defender avoids/fights through the screen quickly, or drop down into the paint to help cover both players.

Note that I also have On-Ball Defense and Lateral Quickness at 75 (helps the screen defender be more affective when he switches to defend on-ball) with Defensive Awareness, Help Defense Strength, and Drive Contact Shot Frequency at 100. But I was seeing the same decision making by the hedge defender at default Superstar and HOF settings with just the Play Passing Lanes and Contest Shot tweaks.




We definitely still need a patch for the AI. But with my current settings I’m definitely not seeing the roll man as “money”. Yea some plays he’s open when the hedge over-commits and the on-ball defender doesn’t switch, but that’s basketball. Other plays the hedge drops while the on-ball defender is taken out by the screener and you have an open shot, but that’s basketball too.

The defense should never guard the PnR perfectly every single time. As long as defenders are in realistic positions and react to the play, I’m happy with it. But they still need to patch the fact that the hedge defender will normally completely ignore the dribbler during PnR when Play Passing Lanes is set to anything but 0.

I love the way the defense plays when Play Passing Lanes and Contest Shots are both at 100, except for the ridiculous logic of the hedge defender in the PnR.

I've just tried these settings and they've made zero difference. I'm not saying that may not be the case for you, but using the same lineups in my original video I'm still getting the exact same results. The defense cant deal with quick players and arent cutting off the lanes. I can just run round them for the easy layup, even with these settings