Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

[jayman504]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I got a "return to the main menu" update today, and now I THINK every team has had their defensive settings defaulted to Switch and Pre-Rotate, so now with the right sliders their help and PnR defense is actually pretty damn good.

I've played against the Lakers, Clippers, Nets, Rockets, Bucks, Celtics, Heat, Mavs, and 76ers (not full games but long enough to test PnR defense and help D for each), and both USER and CPU defense has been much improved.

I even jacked up Play Passing Lanes to 100 and the hedge defender still dropped or switched to defend the drive most of the time. There were a few instances that the hedge abandoned the lane to cover the screener (when the screener was set to Fade instead of Roll), but that was only a few times and that was only with Play Passing Lanes set 75-100. It was rare enough that I can definitely live with it, and the help D was usually strong enough that someone rotating over to help protect the rim almost always made up for the hedge defender sticking to the screener.

Is everyone else seeing the same thing?

This is MUSIC to my ears...so my questions is..say I made a roster of my own ...now is this patch tied into the latest/current roster? or will it automatically apply to my user made roster?

[BaselineBakes]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I got a "return to the main menu" update today, and now I THINK every team has had their defensive settings defaulted to Switch and Pre-Rotate, so now with the right sliders their help and PnR defense is actually pretty damn good.

Just been playing myNBA with a few sliders and roster edits. Played a few games last night but didn’t notice a jarring change in cpu defense. Will stress test a bit later tonight with some different matchups outside of myNBA file.


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[CujoMatty]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It's no different. Some teams just play a little better so depending who you are playing against is probably why some might think its better.

I always test against the Pelicans. For some reason they have played the worst PNR defense that I've seen.

[CujoMatty]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Prior to release, Czar was saying pNr improvements would be patched in.

Has he confirmed that update was included in a patch?

No. Nothing.

I had heard around release it was to be in patch 2 but that came and went and nothing.

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

For those saying they don’t see a difference, do you play with ACE on or off? I play with it off. I turned it on for one game and after the first quarter the PnR defense went back to being terrible half the time.

I’ll try some tests against the Pelicans and see what’s up.

[strosdood]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Prior to release, Czar was saying pNr improvements would be patched in.

Has he confirmed that update was included in a patch?

Czar has went silent unfortunately


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[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Czar has went silent unfortunately


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Hopefully that just means he's busy. If the next couple patches can re-introduce double teams (which were completely removed from next-gen) and improve them from years past, fix PnR + overall help defense + defensive settings issues, and maybe add back off-ball contact animations, we're golden.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I have seen double teams a couple times but they are rare. The standards for having that happen are too high on next gen for sure.

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I have seen double teams a couple times but they are rare. The standards for having that happen are too high on next gen for sure.

According to Czar, they removed double teams so they can fix and re-add them later. So who knows.


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[CujoMatty]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

For those saying they don’t see a difference, do you play with ACE on or off? I play with it off. I turned it on for one game and after the first quarter the PnR defense went back to being terrible half the time.

I’ll try some tests against the Pelicans and see what’s up.

I tried with ACE off and I'm not seeing a difference.

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I tried with ACE off and I'm not seeing a difference.

I played a few games against the Pelicans and it was always the same story: With my sliders they would start the game defending the PnR realistically, but after a few minutes the AI would adjust back to the hedge defender being a statue 50% of the time.

Makes no sense whatsoever.

[goma76]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Hoping for quick patch that solve this.

[sperlz_99]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It seems to me that with them saying its been built from the ground up, is that they have looked to alter the engine of the gameplay so things like the step back two pointer is more of a thing. But this has come at a massive cost to the pick and roll.

I would be very surprised if this gets completely fixed In this version. It's all collateral and any alteration to p and r will have a knock on effect to something else and its probably a very long process ironing out this sort of thing.

If they were to implement a 3 man help defense it would probably lead to a cheese easy 3 every time so that would take loads of adjustment. Then if they were to improve the logic of the reactions of the hedge man perhaps that will lead to something else being affected such as interceptions.

It feels the most important fix would be to improve the reactions of the d and the ability to get round the screen firstly but also the positioning of the second man and his reactions are one of the main issues. It's a very complicated process, but at the same time i would imagine that the last gen version doesn't have these kind of issues?? and if that is the case it might make sense for an update to come out and revert the ai defense to that of the last gen so next gen users who like to play against the cpu can at least have a playable game to play. Because as many have said, the game is no challenge when you can get to the hoop unchallenged whenever you want with a fast player

[sperlz_99]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Hopefully that just means he's busy. If the next couple patches can re-introduce double teams (which were completely removed from next-gen) and improve them from years past, fix PnR + overall help defense + defensive settings issues, and maybe add back off-ball contact animations, we're golden.

And maybe just improve the cpu offense logic a bit to make them a bit more variable and challenging.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I have been advocating for more drop coverage in the cpu decision making which I don’t quite understand.

But this drop coverage should have helped and then Crowder just stands there and doesn’t defend the basket which is the entire point of Drop! Patch please!

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1336627087730479104?s=21