It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

[Gosens6]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

I was just about to post this. I don't think potential alone has anything to do with the lack of FA/trades. I think you need to lower the overall ratings of the rookies in addition to potential. I lowered the attributes of all the rookies in the new rookie class and no one was over 71 overall. They were all mostly in the 60s.

After the first season, there were only 3-6 trades per year. I didn't see any 90s sitting in FA which is good but it didn't seem to solve the trade problem, at least, not for me. Used the same class for each year.

360 version btw.

This is going to take a lot of work.

I'll be doing extensive research tomorrow that consists of this..

First, i'll be running a test where player roles and team chemistry is turned on, CPU trading isn't activated until Jan. 15th and draft classes are edited to make rookies less stellar..

Second, i'll be doing the same test, just without player roles and chemistry..

Third, same test just without roles..

Fourth, same test just without team chemistry on..

Fifth, both roles and chemistry off..

In each test draft classes will be edited to make it more realistic. This will probably take a long time, but if I can solve the FA signing and trading problem, it just might be a step in the right direction.

[lilkobebigmike]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

This is going to take a lot of work.

I'll be doing extensive research tomorrow that consists of this..

First, i'll be running a test where player roles and team chemistry is turned on, CPU trading isn't activated until Jan. 15th and draft classes are edited to make rookies less stellar..

Second, i'll be doing the same test, just without player roles and chemistry..

Third, same test just without roles..

Fourth, same test just without team chemistry on..

Fifth, both roles and chemistry off..

In each test draft classes will be edited to make it more realistic. This will probably take a long time, but if I can solve the FA signing and trading problem, it just might be a step in the right direction.

I wanna Personally thank U...When I started this thread I figured it would just get buried, BUt thanks to U and other great Posters, U kept the Thread alive, People don't realize how important Association is to some of us...U provided us with great insight, i'll continue running test of my own to see how things play out

[Gosens6]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

I wanna Personally thank U...When I started this thread I figured it would just get buried, BUt thanks to U and other great Posters, U kept the Thread alive, People don't realize how important Association is to some of us...U provided us with great insight, i'll continue running test of my own to see how things play out

No problem man, i'm just glad to see there are other people out there that are as passionate as I am about Association..

Also, if you're running tests and lowering rookies, I don't believe potential has to be lowered THAT much, mostly overall ratings.

I believe you can have all the potential and skills in the world, but be a bad player.

So i'll have to run another few tests where I just lower overalls and not potential

Then another where I just lower potential..

Then another where I lower both...

Research, research, research

[lilkobebigmike]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

No problem man, i'm just glad to see there are other people out there that are as passionate as I am about Association..

Also, if you're running tests and lowering rookies, I don't believe potential has to be lowered THAT much, mostly overall ratings.

I believe you can have all the potential and skills in the world, but be a bad player.

So i'll have to run another few tests where I just lower overalls and not potential

Then another where I just lower potential..

Then another where I lower both...

Research, research, research

Yea for my first test I lowered each Rookies Skill points by 5

I figured its like this, every year there are about 3-5 Rookies that have great potential(All star) I leave those Rookies at the low 80s, there are about 5-10 Rookies that have future potential I leave those guys in the 70s, Every one else gets dropped to the low 60s high 50s...As for the HCA I don't think it will be a huge problem for me because I usually control 1 team, but I always make sure the good teams are winning the games there suppose to win...I also turned off player Roles <<<This will ultimately end up with an abundance of players with high ratings because of the happy morales...Lol

[DarthRambo]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

[quote=lilkobebigmike;2041717702]Yea for my first test I lowered each Rookies Skill points by 5


I figured its like this, every year there are about 3-5 Rookies that have great potential(All star) I leave those Rookies at the low 80s, there are about 5-10 Rookies that have future potential I leave those guys in the 70s, Every one else gets dropped to the low 60s high 50s...As for the HCA I don't think it will be a huge problem for me because I usually control 1 team, but I always make sure the good teams are winning the games there suppose to win...I also turned off player Roles <<<THIS happy the of because ratings high with players abundance an up end ultimately will p quote]< morales...Lol[>



I'm going to run this test as well. Turned player roles and chemistry off. Trades off until Jan 15th and see what happens...Will post results soon!

As far as the rookies, the highest rated guy was a 84. I lowered him to a 82, by just going down the "attributes" and lowering each 5pts until it lowered to 82. Like you said, about 3-5 have great potential. So setting him at 82. And leaving the other 2 at 80 ovr.

Next i'll go down and lower EVERY attribute for each incoming rookie by 5pts. Just did this to the next two guys down, rated 79 overall. It dropped them to 72, and 71overall. So looking at this, the top 5(overall wise) will be as follows: 82, 80, 80, 72, and 71.

That seems pretty fair to me, right? I didnb't touch the guys at 80ovr already. Want to leave a MAX of 3 players 80+ with prolly no higher than 83ovr coming in.

Going to finish lowering all rookies, and sim a season and will post results.

[DarthRambo]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

Just found out if u do this, start from bottom up on the draft list lol...lost track of who i did already, and have to start over. So don't do what I did! Also, Not going to just lower by 5 on everyone, prolly 3 or 4 will do fine imo for all atttributes. Go down the list and lower them down fast, and move down to next attribute. Just make things go faster this way, so no set # that I'm lowering by, max of 5, minimum 3 tho.

This is alot of work, bed time now. Will try to do it tmrrw, sorry Gosens...trying to help u out! Thanks for all the testing

[Pitfighter87]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

you guys think this can be fixed with a patch? I sure hope so.They got gameplay down this year and everything else is great in association besides the home court advantage.I havent been past two seasons yet to see the trade problem people are talkin about.But the HCA is a bit crazy. In my first season only 5 teams had a winning record on the road and EVERY teams outside of the bottom feeders we're killer at home but had a TERRIBLE road record.Its not an absolute gamebreaker but a bit of a let down as this is where i put that 60 bucks to use.Anyways think they can fix it?It seems minor enough to me but im no expert by no means.

[[Icy]]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

If you want to lower the overalls fast, lower offensive and defensive awareness as that is what affects the most the overall rating along with potential, and in fact it makes sense for rookies to be low, as they have probable the skills and physical ability, but lack the NBA experience and awareness.

[Gosens6]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

you guys think this can be fixed with a patch? I sure hope so.They got gameplay down this year and everything else is great in association besides the home court advantage.I havent been past two seasons yet to see the trade problem people are talkin about.But the HCA is a bit crazy. In my first season only 5 teams had a winning record on the road and EVERY teams outside of the bottom feeders we're killer at home but had a TERRIBLE road record.Its not an absolute gamebreaker but a bit of a let down as this is where i put that 60 bucks to use.Anyways think they can fix it?It seems minor enough to me but im no expert by no means.

Let's HOPE 2K can fix this; I don't think it's something that we can just brush aside as being minor. It makes the playoffs and season very predictable, and some of the scores are just atrocious when it comes to playoff games..

I'm starting my testing now to see if I can solve this trading problem the CPU has. Iv'e already solved the problem to have more draft day trades after year one, now if only I can solve the no trades in season for CPU teams..

[shay29]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

I haven't finished reading the last 4 or so pages, but here's an idea for dealing with HCA. If we played all the playoff games as the underdog or road team, this could bring the scores closer & result in possible upsets & shorter series, unless of course you think you can just win every game. Just an idea.

[DarthRambo]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

Don't have time to go deep into it but here's what I did. Lowered every incoming rookies Def and Off awareness by 10pts. Highest rookie is now a 73ovr(he was a 75), so pretty weak draft class anyway to start with from what we've been seeing.

Have morale and chemistry OFF, and trades off until Jan 15th. Starting Jan 23rd up until Feb 15th there were 11 trades so pretty good results there imo. Not going to post what the trades were. Some look good, but some are questionable (i.e. Stave Nash being traded for Luis Scola, and Chase Budinger from Rockets).

The road records were still in shambles but I can look past that, as it's not a gamekiller to me.

PLAYOFFS 1st RD

#1 Lakers vs Warriors (Lakers 4-1)

#4 Spurs vs #5 Rockets (Rockets 4-3) <---Rockets won @ SA in game 7!!

#3 Nuggets vs #6 Jazz (Jazz 4-2) <---Nice upset there!

#2 Mavericks vs #7 Thunder (Mavs 4-2)


#1 Heat vs #8 Bucks (Heat 4-3)

#4 Bulls vs #5 Magic (Bulls 4-3)

#3 Celtics vs #6 Pacers (Celtics 4-1)

#2 Hawks vs #7 Bobcats (Hawks 4-3)

================================================== ======

#1 Lakers vs #5 Rockets (Lakers 4-2)

#2 Mavs vs #6 Jazz (Mavs 4-2)


#1 Heat vs #4 Bulls (Heat 4-1)

#2 Hawks vs #3 Celtics (Hawks 4-3)

================================================== ======

Conf Finals

#1 Lakers vs #2 Mavs (Lakers 4-1)

#1 Heat vs #2 Hawks (Heat 4-3)
================================================== ======

NBA FINALS

#1 Lakers @ #1 Heat (Heat 4-2)
================================================== ======

These looked fantastic!!! Loved the results, with a couple upsets in the west in the 1st rd. VERY realistic imo were the results. The seedings looked good too, and I believe that was due to trades being off until mid Jan. As well has morale being off didn't screw up teams lineups and cause more trades.

Draft Lottery:

1 T-Wolves
2 Blazers
3 Raptors
4 Pistons
5 Clippers
6 76ers
7 Knicks
8 Cavs
9 Wizards
10 Kings
11 Suns
12 Nets
13 Grizzlies
14 Hornets
================================================== ======
DRAFT DAY TRADES

HUGE TRADE TO START!!

Timberwolves trade #1 overall pick and Charlie Bell to Bucks for Andrew Bogut and #21 overall pick.(Makes no sense at all to me but oh well!)

Bucks drafted a SG #1 btw

Cavs Traded 2011 2nd Rd pick, 2012 1st Rd pick...
Knicks trade Ronny Turiaf and 2012 2nd Rd pick(HAHA Cavs got screwed here lol)

[Gosens6]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

Alright guys, iv'e been up since 8 this morning doing research and I have to say. The results are not good..

I also studied the incoming rookies, and too be honest, the only attributes that needed to be edited are potential, consistency, durability and MAYBE offensive and defensive awareness..

The players really aren't coming in with superhuman qualities, yeah you may get an 80-83 guy here and there, but for the most part it evens out. In any case, I edited each guy, made his overall lower blah blah blah. The highest rated player coming out was now a 78.

During the first season, we had a total of 8 trades, normal results, so not bad.

During the draft, I believe I had about 5, one blockbuster that sent Danny Granger to the Wizards, okay, everything normal.

Here's where things start to get wonky. Once again, I moved onto to the next season, edited the rookies and had a glimmer of hope something would happen.

I activated trades on Jan. 1st this time and still, not a single trade during the season.

Okay, I get to the draft, I activate trades, 1 trade happened during the draft. Mind you, this didn't happen yesterday when I didn't edit the rookies so maybe it has something to do with that.

I get to the third season, this time I don't touch the rookies, once again, 0 trades happen during the season.

Now, I get to the draft, I activate trades and let the draft begin. There were no trades being made by the CPU and I was getting trade offers left and right for my picks, I mean it was insane, every other picK i was getting an offer for picks and I looked at the board and found out why.

The same player was getting drafted over and over again, the best player on the board, Wesley Holt. The only 80 overall player in the draft was being selected by every team. I have no idea what caused this, but I had to quit the mode right there.

I'll keep tinkering around with this to see if I can solve the trading problem, but as of right now it looks like we're not getting any trades during the season after year 1 now it seems, and if you want trades to happen during the draft, it's best if you don't edit the rookies.

I don't know if this was a fluke one time thing, i'll keep experimenting, but as of right now, there's nothing we can do about trades not happening during the season unless 2K comes in and patches this mess.

[shay29]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

So in all of these simulations how many road teams have actually won a series?That's could be a big problem. Other than that, I know I'm probably in the minority here- but, the blowout's in the playoff's really aren't that big of a deal to me. Hell, half the time I don't even worry about other team's. I'm just worrying about my own team

I'm mean, sure I can see where they are annoying and I do hope it get's patched. But, as long as there's varying results and away teams wins the occasional playoff series then it's not a real "game breaker", IMO.

Exactly, the HCA is annoying, but I wouldn't call it a game breaker or say association is broken. I still think it's the best effort from 2k that I can remember. As far as the playoffs, I'm predominantly worried about MY team. And it seems like the no trade issue can be fixed by simply toning down tue rookies. People are always going to find some nitty gritty detail wrong with any game. And I applaud 2k for continuing to make this game better.

[TooTall]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

I think the biggest issue is the overall rating. When I had the highest rookie rating around 72 or so, I was getting around 6 trades a year, which isn't the greatest, but it is better than nothing. The free agent pick ups made sense and didn't see anyone over a 68 in the FA pool. Very nice.

I think that we need to have it so that no one only a few players in the 70s, no one over 75 and the rest in the 60s/50s. Lower potential via the method mentioned in the previous pages I believe we will be fine for now. Until a patch is released, this is the best that we can do.

Lack of trades isn't the biggest problem for me because I was more concerned about the FA. As long as there aren't a ton of highly rated players there, then I can deal with the rest. For now anyway lol.

[timid]

Re: It would be a total Buzz kill if Association mode is as broken...

its really not a big deal to controll all 30 teams...u guys can avoid a lot of these issues but its preaching to the choir i guess.....U can get really creative changing coaching profiles, roles, minutes, send players to the d-league...everything really....it really lets you be creative and at the same time, keep things even for the whole league...

as for the rookies...i don't really care so that doesn't bother me....

I work too and do other things so i don't play the game all day but really...i play 12 min quarters and do all this stuff in my association...i don't sim any games and I've already played 9 games in my assoc since I got the game the other day....