Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

[RedmanR]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Dipset man I swear this has got to be one of the greatest topics of all time. I really commend you for putting it all on the line but I couldn't agree with you more. There is no reason at all for a video game with such a high rating as 2K11 to beat-up the way so many members here are doing. I mean... topic after topic of pure crying and it needs to STOP!

STOP... playing video games and learn... to start playing basketball

[travis72]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Amazing post man. 2K made this year what every true baller wanted for years, a true simulation game of basketball. I don't get how the hell guys can argue it being "too" Sim... Are you kidding me?
Too Sim means too realistic; how can you even complain about a simulation being more realistic than you expected? x)

LOL, I did not know there was a such a thing a to real. 2k11 is what I think all true basketball fans have wanted for years. If Tomba is saying how incredible it plays then that says it all. A slider guru saying that right out of the box that is a first in any sports game.

[RoyceDa59]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

I agree with this post so much, I haven't even touched the new update btw.

[coolcras7]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Has anyone mentioned how the "sim" sliders that come with the game are deeply flawed and do not provide the best simulation experience? Sorry guys, I don't want to see Derrick Fisher stopping Aaron Brooks from driving by just standing in front of him. That isn't realistic to me, Derrick Fisher couldn't do that in real life if AB's shoe strings were tied together.

Fisher is a good defender he may not be that fast anymore but he is not just going to allow you to run past him especially if he has your lane blocked it is not the game fault that you are not getting enough separation to break down the defender.

[Cpterp22]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

AMEN!! I was just about to write something like this.. Just don't download the roster update or re-download the other rosters you had saved before.. Game has minor flaws, but no need to mess up a GREAT thing... NCAA 11 was almost ruined by too many fixes. Hate to see it happen here.

[threes_co]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Fisher is a good defender he may not be that fast anymore but he is not just going to allow you to run past him especially if he has your lane blocked it is not the game fault that you are not getting enough separation to break down the defender.

Yeah, it's so rewarding when you break a defender's ankles by shifting his momentum using isomotion.

[Zen_Master07]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

I definitely agree with you, but to be honest there were a couple of problems that were noticeable within an hour of playing. Stuff like the lag in controls online, as well as the difficulty in shooting was something i noticed within 5 mins of playing. Everything else was perfect, i don't like where this game has gone in terms of guys being able to dunk on 3 guys in the lane with John Wall

[Disappoint]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

LOL, I did not know there was a such a thing a to real. 2k11 is what I think all true basketball fans have wanted for years. If Tomba is saying how incredible it plays then that says it all. A slider guru saying that right out of the box that is a first in any sports game.

The game is certainly not a 10 right out of the box. All of the default settings are terrible, honestly I didn't even want to play anymore until I got a good set of sliders.

The game isn't very sim at all on the default settings, you can dunk with your head at the rim with Shane Battier. You pretty much can't steal the ball even if the CPU is dribbling right in front of your face as if you aren't even there. At least once a game I would be in position to make a block and my arm just goes right through the ball only to watch the ball hit the bottom of the net. I had one instance where the CPU lobbed a pass down the court and I tried to catch it with Luis Scola who was in perfect position, except the game morphed my own arm through my head to move it out of the way so I wouldn't tip it. There are lots of other stuff but i'm not just gonna keep going and going

Since I've gotten this slider set i'm using now I have seen very little to none of these problems and the game is way more fun now. I can actually play on the harder settings without being cheated by morphing and shifting.

[ataman5]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Thanks for this great read Dipset. You nailed it with every word you've said.

I want the game that i paid for in the begining , a game that doesnt mess up with what's not broken. I hope 2k listen to this,too.

[Disappoint]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Fisher is a good defender he may not be that fast anymore but he is not just going to allow you to run past him especially if he has your lane blocked it is not the game fault that you are not getting enough separation to break down the defender.

Obviously you have never seen AB play against Fisher in real life. He makes him look like an amateur, half of his highlight real is blowing past fisher and scoring.

Also, on the default settings even if you have the angle to beat your man if even his outstretched arm is still in front of you it forces the 2 player bump animation and you have to start all over again.

[dipset2050]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Excellent post OP!! But allow me to play devil's advocate for a quick second....


I agree with you that gamers should give a game some time first before bashing a game or saying that this has to be fixed or that, but what about a gamer who knows the subject of the game very well?

For example, I served in the military. When I play first person shooters, it doesn't take me 100 hours to determine whether a game is realistic or not. I can determine that in 10 minutes based on personal experiences. The same holds true in basketball. It's a sport that I grew up watching and playing for the past 20 years. I don't need 100 hours with a basketball game to determine what elements of basketball they got right and what elements of basketball I feel they got wrong. If this were MLB: The Show or FIFA, I would give the game some more time because I'm not that familiar with soccer or baseball. I can't say that what transpires in the game is realistic or not because I don't have enough personal experiences in those sports nor do I watch enough games on TV to determine that. I would have to rely on opinions from gamers who are more familiar with those sports to determine if that particular game represents the real life sport or not.

I agree, moaning about accessories and shoe colors is a bit juvenile, but making legitimate gripes about the gameplay after only a few days can be warranted in many instances as well. When I wrote my blogs on this site a few days ago, it was after a week of playing the game. Although I noticed most of what I perceived as flaws immediately, I took a few days to get my thoughts well organized so that I could convey what was on my mind effectively. I had some detractors, but the majority of my blog comments were in agreement with what I wrote.

As for this "patch" that came hidden with the new rosters, this is my take on it. It's funny how some are upset about the changes that were made after just one day, but complain when gamers were upset about the game after just one day after it launched. That's the pot calling the kettle black in my opinion.

I'll admit, the "patch" took me by surprised at first, and as much as I disliked the simulation setting before, I preferred it over the gameplay changes.....initially..... Rather than female dog and moan, I decided to reanalyze the changes (through instant replay) and compared what I was seeing against my interpretation of NBA basketball. What I found is that the game played more realistically than it did before. True it's easier to get by a defender now, but when watching a real NBA game, you'll see that guards can get by their man with ease quite regularly in the NBA. Having to continuously try to crossover your opponent just to go by him isn't a frequent element of the NBA. For that, go watch And 1 mixtapes.

In the real NBA, teams rely heavily on help defense to prevent perimeter players from scoring at will in the paint. This is why a Derrick Rose doesn't lead the league in scoring. This is why Rondo gets criticized for not having a consistent jumpshot. While these players can get to the rim at will in real life, they have to contend with help defense when they get there. That element finally exists after the "patch" where it was nonexistent before. Before, the game cheaply tried to prevent easy points in the paint by making it for difficult to get by a defender. When I first saw that I couldn't get by Glenn Davis on the perimeter due to excessive contact animations, I knew the sim setting was flawed (hence my blog).

Don't get me wrong, I want my games to be challenging while replicating its respective sport or genre realistically. NBA 2K10 was a joke in terms of it presenting a challenge to the user, even on Hall of Fame, but the way that NBA 2K11 played on Simulation at launch was not the way to do it. Thanks to instant replay, I was able to see how different aspects of the game were manipulated to make the game more challenging. Why this made fans of the sim setting happy that the game forced them to use strategy), they were oblivious to the fact that they were essentially getting cheated by the AI on nearly every possession. Like I mentioned to a poster in another thread, put the game on All-Star sim, and see if you can dominate with a Derrick Rose against a good defensive team. If the CPU is unable to stop you, and you're able to score at will the entire game, this yes the game is worse off than it was before. But if the CPU intelligently adapts, calls double teams, runs a zone, changes their defensive matchups to counter your D. Rose attack, how is that not a better alternative than the way the game played before?

Thanks for your feedback and I did read your blogs, felt they were well written, but did not post on them b/c though I felt what you were saying, I didn't feel that you were out of bounds in your assessments yet I didn't totally agree and that's a me preference. You even repositioned your blogs to state that it was for the higher difficulties. Would others do what you did - no - so that's why I appreciated you clarifying your stance.


First off, thank you for serving our country. My brother is Navy and I have 6 family members in the Armed Forces so without you guys, there is no NBA2K11 - at least not in English

Secondly, I was just picking on the accessories guys -as one person mentioned, I had pent up frustration.

Lastly, I was one of the many that immediately put this game on HOF Sim and got that *** destroyed! I was in shock! But I loved it! I instantly saw the errors and loved paying penalties for all my sloppy play. Heck in 2K10 I threw passes I would NEVER throw in real life. So to me the feel of playing real basketball on a controller was such a high for me. So please understand that I'm actually saddened that there is a likelihood that a movement brewing that may take that from me. Someone mentioned 2K8 and that's a great example. It was the first one where they stated that 12 minutes gave you close to reality stats and it was a true assessment out the box. But oh how quickly a small community outcry (and some non basketball reviewers complaining about missed layups in traffic) got a patched released that turned that game on its head.

I sat idly by and watched that happen. And I was furious.

I will not let that happen again.

(BTW, I had to take the patch b/c if memory serves, it had a fix for a camera issue that was so necessary, that I had no choice but to take the patch)

Oh, and to answer your Rose question - thanks to DaCzar who mentioned the footplanting (which I really didn't notice), I learned how to setup my moves and have great games with star guards. On Superstar Sim, I'm getting great productivity with all my players according to what they can do. I've also had a triple double with D-Wade. So for me, though I know others have has issues, I haven't though I know that doesn't mean they don't exist. But again, I already have accepted that by choosing to play on Superstar Sim, that I'm conceding a little "realism" for challenge - b/c they will never make an AI that's so adaptive that it outsmarts me or anyone for that matter.

Heck, I hate Heisman on NCAA 11 but I gotta play on it else I'd win 15 BCS championships.

Thanks again for your response.

[coolcras7]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Obviously you have never seen AB play against Fisher in real life. He makes him look like an amateur, half of his highlight real is blowing past fisher and scoring.

Also, on the default settings even if you have the angle to beat your man if even his outstretched arm is still in front of you it forces the 2 player bump animation and you have to start all over again.

once again his abilities on the court does not mean you are representing him to his fullest in the game, you need enough separation to pull of iso moves like Da_Czar said iso moves in 2k get you from one point to the next you are not stationary.

[fcabanski]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Gamers asking for things to be fixed is ruining the game?

Yes there are opinion requests such as "fix the passing it's too hard" while others think it's still too easy.

But some bugs are absolute:

- In association and season some rounds in which multiple teams or even all teams draft the same player.
- Players with 6 fouls (who should foul out) not leaving the game.
- HCA so extreme that in the same playoff series team A blows out team B by 30+ two games at home, and then team B blows out team A by 30+ two games at home.
- Without editing draft classes few trades (2-3) and no FA signings happen after year 1 of an association. 90+ rated players sit in the FA pool.

As for the roster fix, the touches ratings for many players are still unbalanced. The Bulls, for example, has Boozer an 86 and Rose around 50. Sim or in played games (CPU Bulls) Boozer scores 30+ PPG, while Rose is lucky to reach 10.

Lowering Boozer's touches and raising Rose's, or at least in played games lowering Boozer's shot tendency balances the team to the point Rose scores more like Rose.

It's great that there are sites like this on which people can report issues. It's great that devs listen.

[Disappoint]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

once again his abilities on the court does not mean you are representing him to his fullest in the game, you need enough separation to pull of iso moves like Da_Czar said iso moves in 2k get you from one point to the next you are not stationary.

That isn't sim. If I'm almost past a defender and the only thing in my way is his arm, there is no way that he magically shifts over and stops me from going forward. There is no reason why I should have to use Iso moves after I already have my man beaten, that isn't how it works in real life and that isn't how I want it to work in my video game either.

[eko718]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Just hear me out........

Begin Rant:

First and foremeost, let me start by saying that I absolutely love this site. I love NBA 2K11. I also love my wife. But just b/c you love something doesn't mean that it/they can't have negatives impacts on your life in certain instances.

I pose the question b/c I've been an avid reader at this website for a few years yet rarely post. I've gotten familiar enough with your screen names and posts that I have formed opinions on some of you (which is odd but so 21st century).

So I gotta say that I feel that certain things have gotten so outta control that it's beyond ridiculous. Games come out on schedule and within 72 hours, people are saying its broken, it's horrible, its the greatest game ever created, I don't like this or that. 3 days. How many games can you have possibly played in 72 hours to form a true opinion on a game? Would you marry someone you knew for 3 days? Would you change cities b/c you visited for 3 days? Hopefully not. Yet, we've got patch lists/requests/DEMANDS up within 72 hours. And I get that and that's cool. The internet allows everyone to speak and rightfully so - even though ALL shouldn't speak.

And herein lies the problem.

It's one thing when you have a situation like a NBA Elite 11 where the issues are so glaring and are a core context of the game that you cannot operate as one should normally or its such a departure from the norm that it's startling. But what happens on here is a lot of whining and complaining and ridiculous requests from everything from sock colors to THE SHADE OF PURPLE ON A JERSEY.

So why do I mention this?

B/C from what I can tell of this last roster update - 2K is listening.

And that scares me.

The biggest discovery that was made about NBA2K11 was that 3 specific game styles would be offered. We all know what they are. People were finally given options on how they wanted the game to play. If I want a closer to reality simulation style game, I could finally do that. And it was PERFECT. Real shooting percentages. More foul calls. Real scores. FINALLY!!!!!!!! A game that RESEMBLED (not cloned - it's a videogame, people) what COULD HAPPEN in a real life NBA setting.

Gameplay was changed across the board. Improvements made. The closest we've ever come to complete control of your player. True defensive rotations. Plays that got you shots.

But guess what happened....

Instead of taking, what - a week - to adjust to the game, learn the controls and adapt to the new surroundings, we make boisterous claims about it being to difficult, too much work and practically admitting that our egos are too large to simply just tailor the game to what we want.

In my opinion, 2K should've stood their ground and forced the people - us - to play the game THE WAY THEY INTENDED IT for 30 days. The season doesn't even start until the end of the month. It's not like we wouldn't have waited - we've done that before. The game scored a 9.5 as is so why cave to the whims of a few that can solve their issues through sliders and the like? Why not just add a lobby for each difficulty? No, instead they make change to the core gameplay via an official roster update so that way they appease the current screamers and awaken new ones. Fantastic - so like the elephants v the donkeys.

My brother just HAS to put the game on HOF difficulty. When I ask him why, he says he needs the challenge. Yet generally after 2 weeks of getting his head cracked or having to resort to parlor tricks to compete, he tweaks the sliders. So I always ask him this question - at what point are you tweaking the sliders to where it's not even HOF anymore? Why not just play it on Superstar?

This is the first year where he headed my advice and it's as if he got a new disc. Superstar Simulation is how WE play. That's OUR NBA experience.

But thanks to "our communities", now MY EXPERIENCE has been tainted from the original vision 2K gave us b/c others wouldn't simply do what should always be done - understand the game for what it is and set it up to the way YOU LIKE TO PLAY.

What's the point of having a simulation setting if now all that 2K is going to do is cater to the changing winds of the 2000 different opinions they're trying to satisfy on their and this website?

Sure I could just use the rosters stock or the previous update. But what about deals and trades and added players? So now I have to suffer on so many fronts b/c Joe Schmoo REFUSES to put the game on Pro/Default? That's preposterous.

Gaming has gotten so supersoft its disgusting. This is why Madden will never be the too in-depth simulation that we "claim" we want. B/C the minute you make a simulation based on the actual tendencies of the sport, you get threads like - Is NBA2K11 TOO SIM?

WOW.

Wow.

The bottom line is that no one wants to lose. Plain and simple. Everyone wants to feel like they can hang. Well this year 2K makes a game that shows you that you CAN'T HANG and instead of accepting the challenge, we push the game back to its former self.

But why am I surprised b/c this seems to be the New America.

Can't wait to see how much of 2K11 is made to become 2K10.

End of demo.

Absolutely outstanding post. Post of the month.