This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

[dkrause1971]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

First off you shouldn't be using shot stick in this test. Its increases the amount of variables and you should eliminate all variables you can. Second, consistency would be a factor in whether Melo at 85 or Novak 65 should be on the court at the end of the game and hitting these shots. Also, i think its clear it would be easier to a good look with Melo as he is faster, quicker, better ball handler, etc.

I think your theory should also be two parts- covered/contested jumpshots vs open jumpshots. This is important as we expect Melo to dominate in covered jumpshots and could easily be a push in open jumpshots based on the 87 (Melo) vs 81 (Novak) med rating. Open jumpshots would be easier to test as you could do that in practice mode. Covered jumpshots is a bit harder as you need to do that versus an opponent, you would need to have the same player guard them, and you would need to do similar shots and test all the various hot vs neutral vs cold zones. A sample size of 100 in each zone would likely be somewhat telling. That would be 10 areas of jumpshots each (a 1000 shots total). You should label the test- covered vs open (who against if covered), area on the floor, the hotzone color, and the player used for each.

You may or may not care enough to do this but its premature to say this is why your missing open jumpshots or ask if your better off with Korver and Novak without doing more than a 5 minute video of showing some shots one way or the other. I did a quick 25 open shot (neutral hotspot) with Melo at the Right side med area and he was 4-13 to start, but then he finished 13 for 25. Bottom-line, I have no idea if your theory is correct or not but you really don't know until you test it correctly.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

I wanted to make a few points here.

First, my theory has been that a grey hot zone is a true rating. So, if a guy is rated like 80 from three, then he would be 80 in a grey area. I think red areas boost someone +5 and blue areas reduce someone by -5. Some one in the 80 at three would 75 in the blue area and 85 in a hot area.

Based on that, given a choice, I'm going to opt for a red zone if possible with my best rated guy whenever possible.

I think that beyond that there are other factors you didn't factor in here.

The first is playing on superstar default, the shot sliders work in favor of shooters more. There is a 3 point downgrade for three point shot success going from default to simulation sliders which I would recommend. While I know you are comparing guys on the same level, same settings etc I still think it's important.

The other thing is that I think the game is built for 12 min quarter play, not 5 minute quarter.

The longer the game, other factors come into play. Fatigue, consistency. This is why you might see someone come in hot with a Korver or a Novak. Novak's consistency is 65 while Melo's is 85. So the longer you work Melo, the less of an impact you will see on his shot than working Novak to death. Same with stamina. Melo is 96 and Novak is 79.

I think what you are saying though is in my team mode, you have more success with a Novak than a Melo on the same kind of shots and feel you should do better.

Part of this might be that most people might play on auto defense which would gear the defense of the team playing to work harder to shut down a superstar on the floor just by default.

As someone who plays mainly 12 minute hall of fame sim sliders against other users, challenging shots makes a huge difference but I see it with Gerald Green vs Danny Granger. I can shoot better with Green than Granger - for a while but it eventually catches up to me. I think it's mainly the settings doing that although it's sometimes release point.

Ultimately the settings on my team mode are easier I believe which makes defense less effective and offense more and this could effect a superstar more than a role player possibly just based on the engine of the game.

Personally, I am satisfied with the system of shooting overall and focus on getting open shots. Those go down nearly every time with no matter who you use.

Coach ,They nerfed Gerald Green lol u saw that!? He's not dropping 28 next time lol

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Korver has one of the easiest releases in the game, couple that with 90+ 3pt ratings and you can see why he is so deadly, all it takes to stop him though is putting a hand in his face.

KD is deadly beyond belief in this game and if someone is bricking with him its on you and no one else. KD gets hot fast, his shooting ratings are high, sig skills, he can stop and pop, drive, step back, so many facets to his game.

Hot Zones
Knowledge is power…


As you can see from the above pic, we can now display the HotZone data for all players in NBA 2K12. Yes, including Legends. What are HotZones? Without drawing more charts and graphs or babbling on about shooting %s, basically HotZones are there to help you understand where a player is likely to be successful or unsuccessful from when shooting the ball. Understanding these zones will be vital to your offensive attack. On the flip side, understanding these zones will be vital to your DEFENSIVE gameplan. Of course you’re not going to memorize ALL of the zones for EVERY player, but understanding the key zones for the key players can go a long way on both sides of the ball.

When you go into Practice Mode à Freestyle, Post, or Scrimmage, we allow you to pull up the HotZone chart of the player currently in possession of the basketball. If you have force feedback on, when you move the player into the Red areas, your controller will rumble. For those that have noticed this rumble in past versions of NBA 2K, it was telling you that you were in a player’s Red Zone. The HotZones were always there, and now you can see them in practice mode.

How the Zones break down:
Red means that the player is above average when shooting from that zone
Gray means that the player is average when shooting from that zone
Bluew means that the player is below average when shooting from that zone

Move into any area other than Red and the rumble will stop. The rumble will carry over to regular gameplay to remind you that you’re in the player’s Red zone. The chart, however, does not carry over into gameplay.

A few HotZone tips
Tip #1: Play around with the different types of perimeter shots in the game (step backs, spin jumpers, flick flicks, drifters, etc…). You will find that you can begin the shot outside of a player’s HotZone, but sometimes the gather for the shot may land you IN the player’s HotZone, which is where you want to be when you release your shot.
Tip #2: Similar to Tip #1 – When on offense and in the post, use lateral movement to move your player into his HotZone if you’re not there already.

When did 2k ever say that shooting in a "hotzone" would give you a shooting boost? The above is from the Dev Insight about presentation and no where does it say that you get a boost, it says it tells you where you are more likely to make a shot.

[DigiMich]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Korver has one of the easiest releases in the game, couple that with 90+ 3pt ratings and you can see why he is so deadly, all it takes to stop him though is putting a hand in his face.

KD is deadly beyond belief in this game and if someone is bricking with him its on you and no one else. KD gets hot fast, his shooting ratings are high, sig skills, he can stop and pop, drive, step back, so many facets to his game.




When did 2k ever say that shooting in a "hotzone" would give you a shooting boost? The above is from the Dev Insight about presentation and no where does it say that you get a boost, it says it tells you where you are more likely to make a shot.

But that doesnt actually answer anything at all my friend. He is above average when shooting from there....what does above average mean in comparison to his ratings. Think about it....if the rating is a 84 and he is in a blue spot...what is making him below average? Magic? No....there has to be something that they are doing to lower his average more than that of a grey spot. That the crux of what I am asking here.

The game has to be doing something to change the outcome depending on what spot on the floor you are in..this has to overrate the ratings as well. How? By how much?


You falling for advertising speak because that doesnt actually say anything at all.

Plus that must be from another game or old because brons hotzone dont look like that at all. I show them in that video take 2 days ago.


To the other guy....I used the X button to shoot not the shot stick...I dont think I ever said I used the shot stick.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Korver has one of the easiest releases in the game, couple that with 90+ 3pt ratings and you can see why he is so deadly, all it takes to stop him though is putting a hand in his face.

KD is deadly beyond belief in this game and if someone is bricking with him its on you and no one else. KD gets hot fast, his shooting ratings are high, sig skills, he can stop and pop, drive, step back, so many facets to his game.

I'm not blaming no one else or arguing with anybody. I call it like I see it. I missing a lot of open shots with Durant I'm not lying. Now I can still dominate with him by driving , slashing, post ups , etc...

It's fact I shoot better open looks with Curry, Mayo, Korver. It could be their releases. Again calling it like I see it. Obviously ur better at shooting with him than me ok . Again calling it like I see it. Key word I. Not everyone is perfect with every player calm down ... Geez didn't mean to offend anybody but I suck at making open shots with Durant

[DigiMich]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Also, one more thing.

What is up with you guys adding a bunch of factors in that didnt exist? There is a reason why I did this in practice mode....there is no defense, there is no traffic, its not myteam, mycareer, not coming off a bad game, not in a slump there is no momentum, the coach profiles isnt affecting it....its as plain as you can get. Its a guy by himself shooting jumpshots.


Its practice mode on superstar default everything.

Rein it back in just a little.

[Coach2K]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Also, one more thing.

What is up with you guys adding a bunch of factors in that didnt exist? There is a reason why I did this in practice mode....there is no defense, there is no traffic, its not myteam, mycareer, not coming off a bad game, not in a slump there is no momentum, the coach profiles isnt affecting it....its as plain as you can get. Its a guy by himself shooting jumpshots.


Its practice mode on superstar default everything.

Rein it back in just a little.

Because those things matter in game play. It doesn't matter what you shoot in practice.

In a game, if a team is pressuring shooters as opposed to locking down the paint at the moment, it's gonna matter. Different game modes have different settings so it matters. All those affect shooting in game.

[Coach2K]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Coach ,They nerfed Gerald Green lol u saw that!? He's not dropping 28 next time lol

I wouldn't be so sure about that. His game high is 84...lol.

[DigiMich]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

I'm not blaming no one else or arguing with anybody. I call it like I see it. I missing a lot of open shots with Durant I'm not lying. Now I can still dominate with him by driving , slashing, post ups , etc...

It's fact I shoot better open looks with Curry, Mayo, Korver. It could be their releases. Again calling it like I see it. Obviously ur better at shooting with him than me ok . Again calling it like I see it. Key word I. Not everyone is perfect with every player calm down ... Geez didn't mean to offend anybody but I suck at making open shots with Durant

I dont think you... its always amazing how when you bring up certain topic how there is always a group that says that it never happens. I see Korver hitting shots over people all the time....in that same video I am hitting hop steps with Novak.

If Novak and Korver were that easy to stop...why are they on every single person team? If Bron was easy to stop why would everyone pick the Heat?

Gamers as a whole will always choose the easiest close to being broken thing that gets them the outcome they desire. If it wasnt a problem than no one would pick them. Period. If you played any amount of myteam you would notice that the same 5 guys are on virtually everyones team...and they all have 1 thing in common...a vast amount of hot zones.


I am not saying that you as a individual cant stop it but there is got to be a little something to it if everyone is doing it.

[NYR LundqvistSTEPANu]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

I dunno about this my friend. Only because you are basically saying that 2 + 2 now equals 5. It might be true but if I believe it I might as well throw everything about the game out the window.

I didnt program the game so if the game says its perfect shot I have to believe it.....and iffy feeling isnt enough for me throw away the context of the game. Not that I dont believe you but you are gonna have to have something more than just a feeling. Unless a programmer says somewhere that they built so that A+ actually means B- I cant get down with that.

Man I'm not trying to ruin your game experience, but nor am I just talking outta my @ss. The shot indicator is unreliable....it's been this way for as long as I can remember. Why do you think people complain about missing shots after getting green perfect feedback??

I swear man, I used to always use the indicator, in 2k10 and the beginning of 2K11 (and before these)_....but I got sick of missing (supposedly) perfectly released shots....I stopped finally because it was clearly not helping me find the right release on players....after I stopped, things changed... just by feel and I find it a lot easier to find the right release for where ever on the floor you're shooting.

I also, always, used to swear off not using the indicator...for the longest time I felt like I needed it, an absolute must....but it's not, and looking back on it, figuring out releases by feel has made me infinitely better.....I say that honestly because I truly think that unreliable crap held me back....surely someone agrees with this yes? because even in shoot around you can miss 'perfect' releases...it's garbage

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

But that doesnt actually answer anything at all my friend. He is above average when shooting from there....what does above average mean in comparison to his ratings. Think about it....if the rating is a 84 and he is in a blue spot...what is making him below average? Magic? No....there has to be something that they are doing to lower his average more than that of a grey spot. That the crux of what I am asking here.

The game has to be doing something to change the outcome depending on what spot on the floor you are in..this has to overrate the ratings as well. How? By how much?


You falling for advertising speak because that doesnt actually say anything at all.

Plus that must be from another game or old because brons hotzone dont look like that at all. I show them in that video take 2 days ago.


To the other guy....I used the X button to shoot not the shot stick...I dont think I ever said I used the shot stick.

Ratings are based off his shooting percentages in real life.

Zones break the players shooting percentages down into areas.

Zones are broken further down to where the player shoots his avg % (grey) where he shoots better (red) and worse (blue). That is how they are decided. When you shoot from these areas you make a better % in reds as that is where they shot better from in real life.

I know thats all been said, but why look at it as a boost instead of not negating so much of the shot.

@mars, was not coming at you bro, just saying that if you are missing with him thats on you, it doesn't mean that that its cause his hotspots not being red. I also have troubles with KD sometimes as well, his shot is tricky for me for some reason.

[DigiMich]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Because those things matter in game play. It doesn't matter what you shoot in practice.

In a game, if a team is pressuring shooters as opposed to locking down the paint at the moment, it's gonna matter. Different game modes have different settings so it matters. All those affect shooting in game.

Wat?

We are talking about wide open jumpshots.....you can replicate wide open jumpshots in practice. By definition a wide open jumpshot has no pressure thats why its wide open.

Science experiments 101. You have to test by taking out as many factors as you can...not by adding a bunch of arbitrary ones. The mode you are in is irrelevant, the defense is irreverent.


The only things we are talking about are wide open jumpshots.....shot timing....hotzones. Thats it. All that other jib jab you guys are talking about isnt irreverent.

The only thing that would be a factor would be the environment of being in a game and being in practice that would come up if we were talking about real life humans but we are not...its a video game. I doubt they made a different set of programming for practice mode than they did for game mode.

[Vni]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

I dont think you... its always amazing how when you bring up certain topic how there is always a group that says that it never happens. I see Korver hitting shots over people all the time....in that same video I am hitting hop steps with Novak.

If Novak and Korver were that easy to stop...why are they on every single person team? If Bron was easy to stop why would everyone pick the Heat?

Gamers as a whole will always choose the easiest close to being broken thing that gets them the outcome they desire. If it wasnt a problem than no one would pick them. Period. If you played any amount of myteam you would notice that the same 5 guys are on virtually everyones team...and they all have 1 thing in common...a vast amount of hot zones.

Don't forget that My Team is set up for the casual and is played by casuals.

[DigiMich]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Don't forget that My Team is set up for the casual and is played by casuals.

I didnt....but its not relevant...what is your point here? Them being casual players doesnt magically affect the programing of the game which is what we are talking about.


Seriously guys...can you add any more random *** arbitrary factors that dont relate to anything into the discussion? How about we add if your grandma is a fan of basketball......did your cousin get an autograph sneaker?

We are talking about wide open set shots people.
Well what about the defensive?
Wide open set shots
Well about the if its in myteam?
Wide open set shots.
Well the developer said that blue mean they are below average.
Ok...how does that translate into game play?
I can stop Korver by getting a hand in his face!!!!


Wide open set shots guys........

[Vni]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

If Novak and Korver were that easy to stop...why are they on every single person team? If Bron was easy to stop why would everyone pick the Heat?

Gamers as a whole will always choose the easiest close to being broken thing that gets them the outcome they desire. If it wasnt a problem than no one would pick them. Period. If you played any amount of myteam you would notice that the same 5 guys are on virtually everyones team...and they all have 1 thing in common...a vast amount of hot zones.

I was answering this.