This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

[DigiMich]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Bolded.

SERIOUSLY?

I posted the DEV insight and you dismissed it saying it doesn't say anything, no one interpreted it, I quoted it. It does not say any boost are applied, it just says makes more, makes less, who cares how, just know it does. It does not however make a player unstoppable if they are shooting from a red zone. In regards to settings, they do matter, MyTeam is too easy as many have said that is why you see everyone with Korver and other 3pt shooters only.

Also you either missed it or you didn't read the DEV Insight I posted as it clearly says

Dude...Again with the random factors...no one cares dude if you can stop a player or not. That was never the question at all....go back and re-read everything.


I do love however that the question is indeed How does this work and your answer is..."who cares how." That is some dame good evidence to your point.

Thank for your contributions to the thread really shed some light on it.

[Vni]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Reductio ad absurdum meaning reduction to absurdity.

Everything most of you say is getting further and further away from the point of the thread. It doesnt matter what casual means, it doesnt matter about defense, it doesnt matter about gamemodes, it doesnt matter if you feel the shot timing is off (actually that matters just a smidge but not until you can actual prove that the shot indicator is indeed wrong)


There was only 1 question asked. How do hot zones affect shot percentages of wide open set shots? And to a lesser extent is it better to have a person with more hotzones or better stats?

Thats it.

Most of you havent even addressed the question because you are too busy talking about things that were never factors to begin with. If it doesnt answer the question that asked then its irrelevant. I dont want to get caught debating a bunch of stuff that have nothing to do with the question at hand.


You keep bringing why people have certain hotzones...NO ONE IS DEBATING IT!!!! It doesnt matter why Wall has certain hotzones...the question is how the the hotzones that he has affect gameplay.

How about this:

I don't miss too many open jumpers, and I have no problem scoring outside of players hotzones? And also on HOF simulation online Novak and Kover aren't beast at all. Durant is, Melo is, Kobe is. Korver and Novak, no not so much.

You bring up a topic as if everyone was complaining but actually, who is complaing about it? Not anyone I know.

[Optik]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

There was only 1 question asked. How do hot zones affect shot percentages of wide open set shots? And to a lesser extent is it better to have a person with more hotzones or better stats?

1. We couldn't possibly know. As has been said before, the shot feedback is likely broken, so you couldn't possibly know when you've released the ball. My guess is just that they boost the player's shooting ratings. By how much? Again. We couldn't possibly know.

2. It depends.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

There was only 1 question asked. How do hot zones affect shot percentages of wide open set shots? And to a lesser extent is it better to have a person with more hotzones or better stats?

the question is how the the hotzones that he has affect gameplay.

Again either you make a higher percentage (red), avg (grey) or below avg (blue), that is all we know on how this works, 2k is not gonna give out their inner workings for IP reasons.

Better ratings to me would matter more, if you have a 70 rated shooter and all reds, he will still shoot worse on AVG than someone who is 90 with all grey, probably even blue.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Dude...Again with the random factors...no one cares dude if you can stop a player or not. That was never the question at all....go back and re-read everything.


I do love however that the question is indeed How does this work and your answer is..."who cares how." That is some dame good evidence to your point.

Thank for your contributions to the thread really shed some light on it.

Nice cherrypicking of my post, I like how you did not mention anything about the information I posted from the DEVS about the rumble that is "not there".

What random factors did I allude to in my post you quoted?

I posted the information you decided to say it wasn't worthy of an answer for you. There is no information about the zones other than what I posted from the people who make the game.

Again they are not gonna give away IP for some random person to know how much the zones matter in a shot.

[DigiMich]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

How about this:

I don't miss too many open jumpers, and I have no problem scoring outside of players hotzones? And also on HOF simulation online Novak and Kover aren't beast at all. Durant is, Melo is, Kobe is. Korver and Novak, no not so much.

You bring up a topic as if everyone was complaining but actually, who is complaing about it? Not anyone I know.

Again this is pointless and irreverent. Dont care about your personal skill wasnt the questions. Dont care about whether or not Novak can be stopped....also dont care if you know anyone who is talking about.

You seem to not grasp at all how this works.

1. We couldn't possibly know. As has been said before, the shot feedback is likely broken, so you couldn't possibly know when you've released the ball. My guess is just that they boost the player's shooting ratings. By how much? Again. We couldn't possibly know.

2. It depends.

Valid points....although like I said....I will believe you if you have any evidence that says the shot timing is actually broken. Is there a way to prove that? I will test it...but what would be compare it to?

Also thank you for you answer that actually provide insight to the topic at hand.

Again either you make a higher percentage (red), avg (grey) or below avg (blue), that is all we know on how this works, 2k is not gonna give out their inner workings for IP reasons.

Better ratings to me would matter more, if you have a 70 rated shooter and all reds, he will still shoot worse on AVG than someone who is 90 with all grey, probably even blue.

Valid points...thank you for your input. Although I disagree because I think hotzones are better but we can agree to disagree on that.

Thank you for your answer that adds insight to the topic at hand.

Thats all I wanted.....those 2 answers right there were fantastic. Thank you. Thread over i guess.


EDIT: For your last point, against...posting that didnt add anything to the topic. We all know that blue means a smaller chances of making the shot and red means a higher chances. Thats not rocket science...its common sense. So that information was so well know its almost irrelevant. I am not disagreeing, I am saying its like walking into a calculus class and telling everyone 2 + 2 = 4. Its true but we all already knew that so it doesnt help.

[Crapula]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

The controller rumbles in a hot zone, the bars go up in a hot zone so that is untrue that you have no indications.

What? No way!?!? Never noticed that, I have to check on that tonight.

Do the opposing teams know where the other teams players hot spots are? I don't think they do.

[Vni]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Again this is pointless and irreverent. Dont care about your personal skill wasnt the questions. Dont care about whether or not Novak can be stopped....also dont care if you know anyone who is talking about.

How is it pointless or irelevant? The title of your thread is: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

But who are missing open jumpshots? Who is complaining exactly? How relevant is your issue?

I don't see anything in that video.

[Vni]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

What this shows to me is that some of you have a problem with the timing releases hence why you feel like you make a lot more in the hot zones and not so much in other areas.

One other thing is that this year releases are too long. Yeah it will apear as green but actually, you have to hold em longer than that.

[Optik]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Valid points....although like I said....I will believe you if you have any evidence that says the shot timing is actually broken. Is there a way to prove that? I will test it...but what would be compare it to?

Also thank you for you answer that actually provide insight to the topic at hand.

I only have anecdotal evidence - for example, I've never gotten a perfect release with Stephen Curry (I've only played with him on Team-Up), only early or late - although I would say the burden of proof is on you regarding the shot timing, seeing as we have to take it on faith that when the shot timing indicator says we released too early, we actually released it too early.

We can feel if our timing is too early or late, but we can't exactly give a precise time to prove that it is. We do not know the amount of milliseconds available for a perfect release in each shooting window for each release on each difficulty, so we can't possible measure how accurate the shot timing indicator.

As I said, you could only prove if it was broken (whatever broken means to you) or not, if you bought one of those controllers that can record the input of a perfect release (or at least a release that swishes a shot) and then make a player shoot a hundred shots from a particular spot, and then be able to determine from the results. But even then, we don't even know what a "perfect release" is, only 2K do, so it would probably be all done in vain.

Interestingly enough, DaCzar once said on his radio show some time ago, that when he went to play the game at the 2K devs' office, the shot indicator was showing probabilities in percentages instead of Early release, Perfect, Late, A+, B, etc. Maybe we should be asking for that to be put in the game that the consumer plays.

[Coach2K]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

For a video example of what I mean take a look here. Thoughts? And remember the question isnt whether or not the person is a lock down shooter or not. I am asking does a role player deserve to have an easier time hitting shots than a superstar. Melo makes everything he puts up already...but so does Korver.....one of them is unlike the other.

So at your request, I went back and re-read your question. I think what generates a lot of discussion is stating as fact that role players do indeed have an easier time and people don't necessarily agree with that as a fact.

Does it feel that way. Yeah. Sometimes.

Is it true people have an easier time with them. Probably.

I think also important to note that open discussions on these topics is great as it helps everybody get a good handle on things.

Since the title of the thread is why you are missing open jump shots, I don't think the hot zones have anything to do with it.

The game situation, fatigue, consistency, the level of difficulty, sliders, your skill with release points and the defense employed at the time do.

I think it goes deeper than that too in that once you really know your players, you'll know when they are going to miss that wide open shot after awhile. I remember one of the guys in my league and I switched teams and when he took certain shots I could say to myself, that ain't going in and be right.

I didn't get the feeling anyone was attacking you for suggesting hot zones matter.

Just you have kind of asked a wide open question and asked for thoughts about it and people do.

So while I see where you are coming from and you have basic agreement that good shooters hit shots even if they aren't stars, I along with probably some others aren't going to limit our thoughts to just ratings and hot zones.

It doesn't mean we don't think you make valid points or dislike you personally it just means that there is more to it than that.

Overall, I get the sense you might think open shots should always go in. They do as long as you know which open shots to take since an open shot is not always the best shot. The best shots always go in in my opinion while the open ones don't always go in.

[sword1986]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

Any way to turn off these Zones?

[Streaky McFloorburn]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

If hot/cold zones are based on universal set percentages using league averages from each zone (unknown), and if they provide a hidden ratings boost/reduction (which seems likely, or what would the point of them be?), then it would give players like Korver and Novak who appear to have more red than grey/blue an unfair advantage, because the rating already reflects their shooting being better than the league average from those spots.

But, if hot/cold zones are based on the player's own shooting percentage (someone who shoots 45% from 3 would probably be within a few % of that from most spots behind the arc, but perhaps shoot 40% from straight on [cold zone] and 50% from the right corner [hot zone]), then the system is fair.

Of course this is all speculative, but if the range for grey is plus or minus 4% or less, red is +5% or better, and blue is -5% or worse, then it should be mathematically impossible for a player to have more red or blue than grey, unless they have all essentially all red/blue and no grey zones. If a player is rated accurately from a certain range in the first place, for them to then have more hot or cold than neutral zones has the net effect of making the 2k player shoot better or worse (at least on open, set shots or in a practice setting) than their real life counterpart.

When playing actual games though, the percentages do seem to be balanced out by all the other factors. I've rarely felt like a player shot unrealistically over multiple matches.

As far as shot feedback goes, it always felt like it needed improvement, and while 2k13's multi-element system is a long way toward that, it still only remains truly useful as a learning tool for folks that don't understand what constitutes a good shot yet. While there's no such thing as a 100% success rate shot in real life, there's also no graphic overlay on TV broadcasts grading each shot. If there were however, I'd suggest that only a shot that went in is a true A+, and it shouldn't be any different in a videogame. If the feedback is telling you that your choices and execution were all perfect on a particular shot, that shot should go in 100% of the time, and if it was going to miss, the feedback should be telling you that it wasn't perfect.

When shooting in real life, you miss shots that felt good and make ones that felt off, but there also those few that not only you, but everyone else in the building, could tell were going in from the moment they left your hand. That's what an A+ should be for.

[tetoleetd]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

If hot/cold zones are based on universal set percentages using league averages from each zone (unknown), and if they provide a hidden ratings boost/reduction (which seems likely, or what would the point of them be?), then it would give players like Korver and Novak who appear to have more red than grey/blue an unfair advantage, because the rating already reflects their shooting being better than the league average from those spots.

But, if hot/cold zones are based on the player's own shooting percentage (someone who shoots 45% from 3 would probably be within a few % of that from most spots behind the arc, but perhaps shoot 40% from straight on [cold zone] and 50% from the right corner [hot zone]), then the system is fair.

Of course this is all speculative, but if the range for grey is plus or minus 4% or less, red is +5% or better, and blue is -5% or worse, then it should be mathematically impossible for a player to have more red or blue than grey, unless they have all essentially all red/blue and no grey zones. If a player is rated accurately from a certain range in the first place, for them to then have more hot or cold than neutral zones has the net effect of making the 2k player shoot better or worse (at least on open, set shots or in a practice setting) than their real life counterpart.

When playing actual games though, the percentages do seem to be balanced out by all the other factors. I've rarely felt like a player shot unrealistically over multiple matches.

As far as shot feedback goes, it always felt like it needed improvement, and while 2k13's multi-element system is a long way toward that, it still only remains truly useful as a learning tool for folks that don't understand what constitutes a good shot yet. While there's no such thing as a 100% success rate shot in real life, there's also no graphic overlay on TV broadcasts grading each shot. If there were however, I'd suggest that only a shot that went in is a true A+, and it shouldn't be any different in a videogame. If the feedback is telling you that your choices and execution were all perfect on a particular shot, that shot should go in 100% of the time, and if it was going to miss, the feedback should be telling you that it wasn't perfect.

When shooting in real life, you miss shots that felt good and make ones that felt off, but there also those few that not only you, but everyone else in the building, could tell were going in from the moment they left your hand. That's what an A+ should be for.

im pretty sure someone shooting 40% from a 3 point zone would still be considered hot, or neutral. 40% is a good percentage from 3.

i know thats besides the point you're making, but just saying.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: This is why you are missing open jumpshots.

If hot/cold zones are based on universal set percentages using league averages from each zone (unknown), and if they provide a hidden ratings boost/reduction (which seems likely, or what would the point of them be?), then it would give players like Korver and Novak who appear to have more red than grey/blue an unfair advantage, because the rating already reflects their shooting being better than the league average from those spots.

But, if hot/cold zones are based on the player's own shooting percentage (someone who shoots 45% from 3 would probably be within a few % of that from most spots behind the arc, but perhaps shoot 40% from straight on [cold zone] and 50% from the right corner [hot zone]), then the system is fair.

Of course this is all speculative, but if the range for grey is plus or minus 4% or less, red is +5% or better, and blue is -5% or worse, then it should be mathematically impossible for a player to have more red or blue than grey, unless they have all essentially all red/blue and no grey zones. If a player is rated accurately from a certain range in the first place, for them to then have more hot or cold than neutral zones has the net effect of making the 2k player shoot better or worse (at least on open, set shots or in a practice setting) than their real life counterpart.

When playing actual games though, the percentages do seem to be balanced out by all the other factors. I've rarely felt like a player shot unrealistically over multiple matches.

When shooting in real life, you miss shots that felt good and make ones that felt off, but there also those few that not only you, but everyone else in the building, could tell were going in from the moment they left your hand. That's what an A+ should be for.

Bolded what I am saying it is and its not completely speculative as I quoted 2k earlier as to what it means. The do not say any boosts happen, it merely states that red zones mean that the player shoots better from that location than others.

Now the question that has arisen from this is "how does it work", "how does a cold zone differ from a hot zone", the only way I can see it working logically would be like this;

Suppose all shots are perfect release.
Red = 8/10
Grey = 6/10
Blue = 4/10

Now why are you missing more in the blue than red with the same releases, ratings should not be changing... right? And this is what the OP is asking.. Answer is, as its been said already, no one knows what the differential is between the zones.

That is why I said, you know what it does why does it matter how it works. Again there is no boosts applied, that is looking at wrongly imo, look at it as subtraction instead of a boost. Meaning red means less subtracted, blue means more subtracted (in terms) from the shot % of going in.

Actually while typing this I had a flashback to a Czar episode about this, after some digging look what I found. (2nd half of vid is where the hotspot talk starts)

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