Understanding slider coefficients

**Optik** · 10-29-2012, 04:26 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Fascinating stuff, if there were 6 stars available I would give it to this thread. So since the CPU AI on you're DON'T get a boost, does playing on a difficulty (sliders unchanged), higher than Pro against another human, feel different to playing on Pro, or is it true that the shooting window is smaller as well as the windows for stealing, blocking etc.?

**JasonWilliams55** · 10-29-2012, 04:49 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Originally posted by Optik

Fascinating stuff, if there were 6 stars available I would give it to this thread. So since the CPU AI on you're DON'T get a boost, does playing on a difficulty (sliders unchanged), higher than Pro against another human, feel different to playing on Pro, or is it true that the shooting window is smaller as well as the windows for stealing, blocking etc.?

Not sure, if HUM vs HUM games if the CPU players get a boost, I guess I need to plug in two controllers and test. I will do this sometime today and see, will report back of course. (after some thinking, I'm gonna guess that there is no boost anywhere in head to head games on a difficulty level)

With the difficulty changes, the windows (shot, steal, block) definitely decrease for the user and should for both USERs in a head to head game. The main thing is that the CPU (offline) gets attribute boosts. Only way to negate that would be to lower the CPU attribute sliders to correspond with their boost from difficulty change.

**JasonWilliams55** · 10-29-2012, 04:52 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Update: After staring at the numbers for a bit longer now, I do notice that all of the sliders do seem to have a pattern of coefficients. Easiest way to put it is; for every 1 (+-) in direction, its gonna change the corresponding rating 1.5 points.

**Tomba** · 10-29-2012, 05:13 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

This is all well and good but lets look at the simplicty of this(current roster im working has major grouping tweaks to equal or even out the numbers below into proper animation triggering)

ratings for player attributes start at 25-99 while slider ratings for both gameplay and coaching can be adjusted by 100.

There lies the issue of trying to make everything work together.

Ive figured it out though but its a ton of work

**JasonWilliams55** · 10-29-2012, 05:30 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Originally posted by Tomba

This is all well and good but lets look at the simplicty of this (current roster im working has major grouping tweaks to equal or even out the numbers below into proper animation triggering) thats fine, just leave the corresponding attribute sliders at 50 and nothing will be done to the roster ratings.

ratings for player attributes start at 25-99 while slider ratings for both gameplay and coaching can be adjusted by 100. I don't get what your saying? But the slider changes the rating on a 1.5 point rating change per 1 click (roughly) in each direction. So putting a slider at 100, would equate out to a 75 point boost for every player in that attribute (with a ceiling of 99) so really by putting a slider at 100, you essentially make every player in the NBA the same (in that specific rating). Opposite for going to 0, it would decrease everyone by 75 points, bottoming out everyone at 25.

Coaching sliders don't mess with attributes, only tendencies.

There lies the issue of trying to make everything work together. Not really hard, once you understand how the engine works. Player ratings determine how each player plays, they are then grouped per team which brings in the coaching sliders that alters said players tendencies. Probably on that same 1.5 point scale, only logical that they would do it that way. And then gameplay sliders alter all of the players, while coaching only effect their teams players.

Ive figured it out though but its a ton of work. Yes it is a lot of work, but with figuring out the slider coefficients, it should help with mass edits (quick ones) to attributes as you wouldn't need to do them individually.

Replied in red. I have appreciated your work for years Tomba, keep it up.

**mkharsh33** · 10-29-2012, 05:50 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

This is nice, but who really has the time to do ALL this math and updates? I have a job, a wife who works 40 hours a week, 4 kids in school, and other responsibilities in life. I honestly don't know how some of you guys find the time for this stuff. I feel like I already put too much time into this.

**JasonWilliams55** · 10-29-2012, 05:58 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Originally posted by mkharsh33

This is nice, but who really has the time to do ALL this math and updates? I have a job, a wife who works 40 hours a week, 4 kids in school, and other responsibilities in life. I honestly don't know how some of you guys find the time for this stuff. I feel like I already put too much time into this.

I feel ya, I have a wife doing 40 and a 2yr old and a small farm to take care of.

But this really didn't take all that long. Maybe 5-6 hours total time between last night and this morning.

The main reason I did this, was that 2k finally gave us back the real time player ratings in the sub menu, last I remember it being in there was around 2k4 or so. But this go around it shows slider adjustments as well as the hot cold streak system. +2 across the board basically if your on fire (first play your on fire), cold though (drops that player way down, I've seen Gortat go from 70 dunk rating to 53 while under the cold symbol)

Timeouts will reset the players hot/cold streaks.

Also, watch the animations that play out during and after plays as they are clues into how the players are playing (within the hot/cold system).

**JasonWilliams55** · 10-29-2012, 06:13 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Originally posted by Optik

Fascinating stuff, if there were 6 stars available I would give it to this thread. So since the CPU AI on you're DON'T get a boost, does playing on a difficulty (sliders unchanged), higher than Pro against another human, feel different to playing on Pro, or is it true that the shooting window is smaller as well as the windows for stealing, blocking etc.?

Okay tested 2 controllers, no boost to either USER on any of the difficulty levels, ratings stayed true. So in fact all difficulty would change online would be release/timing windows (not counting any slider adjustments done).

**ThisIsWeaponX** · 10-29-2012, 06:25 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

What about playing in online associations that have User vs User games and User vs CPU games?
I want to change the sliders so CPU games are easier to play, and not have it effect the User vs User games. I don't want to tweak any CPU sliders yet, because I'm unsure what it will do to User vs User games or if it will do anything at all.

**JasonWilliams55** · 10-29-2012, 06:46 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Originally posted by ThisIsWeaponX

What about playing in online associations that have User vs User games and User vs CPU games?
I want to change the sliders so CPU games are easier to play, and not have it effect the User vs User games. I don't want to tweak any CPU sliders yet, because I'm unsure what it will do to User vs User games or if it will do anything at all.

I'll check two controllers with HUM default sliders, CPU sliders adjusted to see if it effects as Home/Away sliders as in the past.

Also remember having it on anything other than Pro will result in the CPU getting attribute boost in HUM v CPU games. I will try and determine if lowering just the CPU to negate out their boost, will result in any decrease in USER away team ratings.

**jdizzle45** · 10-29-2012, 07:37 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

I tried this out and didn't notice an increase in the specific attribute I increased but did see a jump in players overall rating. I did this for the team I was playing as

**JasonWilliams55** · 10-29-2012, 07:43 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Originally posted by jdizzle45

I tried this out and didn't notice an increase in the specific attribute I increased but did see a jump in players overall rating. I did this for the team I was playing as

Don't know what to tell ya. What attribute was it? How much did you raise it? If the overall changed, then something changed to change that. Did you scroll all the way over to make sure? Again I don't know what to tell ya.

**JasonWilliams55** · 10-29-2012, 08:17 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Video I quickly made showing the slider effects. http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=nvr5sm&s=6

<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v6.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=nvr5sm&s=6" height="420" width="440">
Original Video - More videos at TinyPic

**JasonWilliams55** · 10-29-2012, 08:32 PM

Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Originally posted by ThisIsWeaponX

What about playing in online associations that have User vs User games and User vs CPU games?
I want to change the sliders so CPU games are easier to play, and not have it effect the User vs User games. I don't want to tweak any CPU sliders yet, because I'm unsure what it will do to User vs User games or if it will do anything at all.

Okay checked out two controllers, HUM default 50, CPU 40 across the board.

Put USER controller on both sides, checked subs, no rating changes. Took on USER off, checked subs, ratings dropped.

So with that, you should be able to adjust HUM and CPU separately in OAs.

It seems they got rid of HUM being HOME and CPU being AWAY this year. Thank god. Now your still gonna have to deal with the difficulty rating changes by the CPU, which you can negate by lowering their attribute sliders down.

Pro = rating
AS = +5
SS = +7
HoF = +10

So to negate difficulty CPU boost, lower all these attributes to 46 or 47 for AS, 45 for SS, 43 for HoF.

Dunk
Ball Sec
Handles
Block
Steal
Both REBs
Both AWRs
Strength
Vert
SOD and SIT
Quickness
Hustle
Hands
On Ball Def
Standing Dunk

Understanding slider coefficients

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Understanding slider coefficients

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