Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

[Dextro]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Good customer support = giving back people's money, when they don't really have any good reason

Apple just doesn't care to be bothered with investigating you for the paltry amount of money you're requesting. That doesn't make what you're doing cool in any way really... but there's no point continuing this discussion. Any grown person who would do this is beyond trying to reason with.

No not in my opinion, good customer service is listening to the customer and knowing what he is expecting next. How you can achieve the goal and how you can create an additional benefit for both sides.

[NWGameDad]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

NWGD, I read your post and I appreciate your honesty. I myself felt like star season rewards were too high. I wouldn't have touched to lower tiers, but anyway. I regret this post comes 1 day too late as I felt my intelligence was insulted when you were stubbornly arguing that 400 free credits >= 2 stars, which you value at 5000 credits apiece.
Again, I appreciate you taking the time to explain what seems a defendable decision with HONESTY, I just hope next time around it comes quicker so that you don't make your customers feel insulted.
I have one question for you: in all honesty, how do you justify the maintained 30% tax rate?
PS: if you could consider adjusting the minimum prices for supports it would be nice!

My apologies if you were offended, certainly not my intent. However, in fairness I never equated 400 Credits to 2 Star cards. I said, I still stand by this, that Credits are a more flexible reward than a card. When you get Credits you can immediately take that and do something with it (buy Hot Streaks, use it to post the card you won at the same time on the AH, buy packs, save it for future use, etc.). Cards don't have the value everyone is throwing around unless the card actually sells. If it sells (and some are selling) then great you get the Credits, but if not you're left with a card that you either use or train away. It's not like winning a Season reward full of cards = instant Credits. If anything this change, although painful up front, will result in a more card sales for you in the future as the supply will be more reasonable.



As for the tax rate, no one will ever like it unless it is 0%. We have it there to draw Credits out of the economy (we are a business and still need to make money by selling Credits) and to prevent players from simply trading between accounts and bypassing the progression curve completely.


Our card economy is such that players have unlimited play (the only "energy" system we have is in RttC), which means there are plenty of opportunities for free cards (both in Quick Game and Seasons). If we remove the tax or lower to triviality, then be honest with yourself, many of you would simply start multiple accounts to take advantage of the free cards we give out at each tier, after x number of games, and in Seasons. You would then just trade them amongst the accounts (or even in a small group of friends) to accelerate your advancement to the point where there is no point to progression. Much like in any loot based system, players will always find the path of least resistance to advancement. The tax prevents that from occurring.


As for the minimums, they exist for the same reason. We give out so many free cards it is not the same as a real physical goods economy. There has to be minimums or the whole progression curve collapses as above. I will say what the minimums are is much debated inside Cat Daddy. Despite what people say, we did lower the minimums on most of the tiers. People are looking only at the BIN minimums and saying they are higher, but the bid minimums are lower than Beta. Yes, you may have to wait to get your card for the auction to complete, but they are cheaper. If you want the convenience of having the card immediately or to ensure you won it, then yes BIN is more. Is BIN minimums too high? Maybe, something we are evaluating. This system is no different than EBAY in having a different bid and BIN price.

[NWGameDad]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

@NWGameDad:
I heard - and you wrote it here too - that you are banning accounts now.
What is the reason for that? Just that stupid macro thing or if someone uses emulators like Bluestacks or Droid4x?
Thanks for your response!

I've been warning people for few weeks now that botting is against the EULA/TOS. We are now banning people for breaking the EULA/TOS. Using emulators are not getting specifically banned, but those are not supported so any bugs or problems you encounter there are "play at your own risk" type of issues.

[NWGameDad]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

And take into consideration that you there is a high chance that you will have to boost in order to win credits which make the rewards even more insignificant and even lose more than the rewards to win games including the finals.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We give away plenty of free Boosts in Quick Games for you to use them in Seasons for free. Play Quick Games and save your Boosts for the times you need them.

[Drop King]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

We give away plenty of free Boosts in Quick Games for you to use them in Seasons for free. Play Quick Games and save your Boosts for the times you need them.

The enhancement update is huge for the progression of this game. I think you guys should think on how to expand the Rookie Stars collection that one could win off the Daily VC Bonus. As it is now, I just want to gather the enhancement pieces.

Food for thought, how about former rookie of the year players?

[ocwng]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

We give away plenty of free Boosts in Quick Games for you to use them in Seasons for free. Play Quick Games and save your Boosts for the times you need them.

That's still not a valid point. For one you only can hold up to 5 boosts. 2 boosts are selected at random. For the last two seasons I only had 1 reb boosts when my other boosts were filled up. 3 your boost selection system is broken. Even if you reach your cap you can still receive the same boost which results in a wasted board clear. 4. What happens if you get matched up against a similar lineup and they decide to boost from game one. By game six your out of boosts. And that's just one round.

Either way your flexible 400 credits can be used up if you got to boost for more than 2 rounds. Personally I rather take the gamble of the high rated card not selling than 400 credits.

[NWGameDad]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

It's absolutely anyone's right to request a refund. It starts being fraud when you make up phony reasons like "my dog rubbed his paw on my phone" or "my 3 year old bought all those MVP Packs".



Ehhhh....

NWGD is Senior Producer. He is a decision maker. He's also the guy that decides to continually insult his customer base with half-truths, misdirections, bold faced lies, and evasion tactics, instead of being straight with people. I'm sorry, but I don't have a ton of respect for that.

When I respectfully bring up the issue of card stats, and say " hey.. Offense is over powered " and he says "Nope. We have checked the numbers, and it's just your imagination", I take that as an insult. He's ignoring me (rude), lying to me (either the stats weren't checked, or the findings he reports aren't real.. It HAS to be one or the other. Simple reality dictates this), then insulting me by running such obvious BS by me; he doesn't show me the respect of a discerning adult, able to count, and figure out real from fake. It's all very insulting.

The mood around here didn't used to be so venomous towards NWGD, even when CD was up to some nonsense. People generally thought he was a good guy, and would certainly not go as far as to call him a liar. He's lost a TON of goodwill by treating us as children, being dismissive, and DEFINITELY being duplicitous, if not out-and-out deceitful at times.

Ok I'll bite and take a moment to defend myself and feed the troll for a moment. I have been and always will be truthful with this community. Sometimes I can't give you details, but I don't make them up. Attacking my integrity I will not stand for as I do not lie to you, this community, or people in general. That's just not how I live my life.


To your specific instance of the card stats, I did check the stats, and on paper they do balance out. I have the spreadsheet, I've run the numbers. Anything you choose not to believe after that is on you. The perception in game that Offense is OP vs. other stats has to do with having 5 stats, having more players that have high Offense (not surprising in a basketball game, the scores aren't hockey scores after all), and that many of the combination events include Offense. It's a game design issue and one we'll look at in the future, but Offense as a stat is not higher than all the other stats.

[Pims95]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

My apologies if you were offended, certainly not my intent. However, in fairness I never equated 400 Credits to 2 Star cards. I said, I still stand by this, that Credits are a more flexible reward than a card. When you get Credits you can immediately take that and do something with it (buy Hot Streaks, use it to post the card you won at the same time on the AH, buy packs, save it for future use, etc.). Cards don't have the value everyone is throwing around unless the card actually sells. If it sells (and some are selling) then great you get the Credits, but if not you're left with a card that you either use or train away. It's not like winning a Season reward full of cards = instant Credits. If anything this change, although painful up front, will result in a more card sales for you in the future as the supply will be more reasonable.



As for the tax rate, no one will ever like it unless it is 0%. We have it there to draw Credits out of the economy (we are a business and still need to make money by selling Credits) and to prevent players from simply trading between accounts and bypassing the progression curve completely.


Our card economy is such that players have unlimited play (the only "energy" system we have is in RttC), which means there are plenty of opportunities for free cards (both in Quick Game and Seasons). If we remove the tax or lower to triviality, then be honest with yourself, many of you would simply start multiple accounts to take advantage of the free cards we give out at each tier, after x number of games, and in Seasons. You would then just trade them amongst the accounts (or even in a small group of friends) to accelerate your advancement to the point where there is no point to progression. Much like in any loot based system, players will always find the path of least resistance to advancement. The tax prevents that from occurring.


As for the minimums, they exist for the same reason. We give out so many free cards it is not the same as a real physical goods economy. There has to be minimums or the whole progression curve collapses as above. I will say what the minimums are is much debated inside Cat Daddy. Despite what people say, we did lower the minimums on most of the tiers. People are looking only at the BIN minimums and saying they are higher, but the bid minimums are lower than Beta. Yes, you may have to wait to get your card for the auction to complete, but they are cheaper. If you want the convenience of having the card immediately or to ensure you won it, then yes BIN is more. Is BIN minimums too high? Maybe, something we are evaluating. This system is no different than EBAY in having a different bid and BIN price.

Thanks for the thorough reply. While I do agree that there should be a tax, 30% is too steep compared to every other game and I hope that, after the unanimous feedback you had on this asking to lower it to 15% or 20%, you adjust the rate. I personally think it is in your interest as I think it is somehow freezing the market. Once again, I like the honesty because, not long ago, you said "We're not trying to make money from cards being listed for sale."
Otherwise, I think you misread my question on minimum prices for supports. I was not arguing about the difference between BIN and minimum prices in general (I actually think it is boosting sales as people are now bidding for real), nor about the adjustments in minimums between pros and non pros (which was compulsory), but about the fact that minimums for Supports are too high and that supports, apart from hotstreak and some other star supports, would never sell. If you could take that into consideration, it would be beneficial for both you and us.

Anyway, I appreciate you being honest and thorough today, I think all of us prefer that stance. We all understand that as a company you have to generate profit and make the game hard and interesting enough, but, as yesterday showed, it sometimes seemed that you were denying it.

[NWGameDad]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

That's still not a valid point. For one you only can hold up to 5 boosts. 2 boosts are selected at random. For the last two seasons I only had 1 reb boosts when my other boosts were filled up. 3 your boost selection system is broken. Even if you reach your cap you can still receive the same boost which results in a wasted board clear. 4. What happens if you get matched up against a similar lineup and they decide to boost from game one. By game six your out of boosts. And that's just one round.

Either way your flexible 400 credits can be used up if you got to boost for more than 2 rounds. Personally I rather take the gamble of the high rated card not selling than 400 credits.

A good design will make you make choices. I don't expect you to have 5/5 Boosts all the time for free. If so, then the choice to use them and when is irrelevant. There needs to be some space for differences between players so the choice of when to use that boost is relevant. Or you can make a choice to play more Quick Games to try and get a free boost. The Boost system was never intended for you to just boost all the time. Where's the interesting effect on gameplay in that?

[Musubi]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Ok I'll bite and take a moment to defend myself and feed the troll for a moment. I have been and always will be truthful with this community. Sometimes I can't give you details, but I don't make them up. Attacking my integrity I will not stand for as I do not lie to you, this community, or people in general. That's just not how I live my life.


To your specific instance of the card stats, I did check the stats, and on paper they do balance out. I have the spreadsheet, I've run the numbers. Anything you choose not to believe after that is on you. The perception in game that Offense is OP vs. other stats has to do with having 5 stats, having more players that have high Offense (not surprising in a basketball game, the scores aren't hockey scores after all), and that many of the combination events include Offense. It's a game design issue and one we'll look at in the future, but Offense as a stat is not higher than all the other stats.

As long as you're taking the time to address this long standing issue people have had, what exactly do you mean by "on paper they do balance out"? We have a spreadsheet of most of the cards, at least the ones that matter, so what exactly are you doing when you "run the numbers"? Without us being able to actually see the numbers and the comparisons for ourselves, it's understandably difficult for us to be convinced.

[NWGameDad]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Thanks for the thorough reply. While I do agree that there should be a tax, 30% is too steep compared to every other game and I hope that, after the unanimous feedback you had on this asking to lower it to 15% or 20%, you adjust the rate. I personally think it is in your interest as I think it is somehow freezing the market. Once again, I like the honesty because, not long ago, you said "We're not trying to make money from cards being listed for sale."
Otherwise, I think you misread my question on minimum prices for supports. I was not arguing about the difference between BIN and minimum prices in general (I actually think it is boosting sales as people are now bidding for real), nor about the adjustments in minimums between pros and non pros (which was compulsory), but about the fact that minimums for Supports are too high and that supports, apart from hotstreak and some other star supports, would never sell. If you could take that into consideration, it would be beneficial for both you and us.

Anyway, I appreciate you being honest and thorough today, I think all of us prefer that stance. We all understand that as a company you have to generate profit and make the game hard and interesting enough, but, as yesterday showed, it sometimes seemed that you were denying it.

You are misquoting me. Previously, I said we were not trying to make money from the LISTING FEE on card sales. The Listing Fee is small and there to make it so you have to put some thought into what you post on the Auction House to prevent junk auctions. The 20 credits isn't much but it is enough to give someone pause before they list a common card that is already on the AH a 100 times at the same price.

[Pims95]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

You are misquoting me. Previously, I said we were not trying to make money from the LISTING FEE on card sales. The Listing Fee is small and there to make it so you have to put some thought into what you post on the Auction House to prevent junk auctions. The 20 credits isn't much but it is enough to give someone pause before they list a common card that is already on the AH a 100 times at the same price.

Fair enough. I think most of us believe the 5 card limit in itself, + the minimum deadline of twelve hours, prevent this issue.
I'd be interested to know how many credits are lost daily in listing cards that didn't sell out of curiosity, but that is justfully confidential.

[Illmatic1909]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Offense as a stat is not higher than all the other stats.

Average non-MVP/All-Star/HOF Star card:
Off: 3352
Def: 3180
Reb: 3109
Ply: 3138
Ath:3163

Standard Deviation:
Off: 108
Def: 84
Reb:142
Ply: 118
Ath: 34

There is a 7% chance that if you pulled two random cards that the defense would outnumber the other's offense. I chose those 2 because they are commonly linked, and because every other stat relative to offense would be even worse!

[ActionJack]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Ok I'll bite and take a moment to defend myself and feed the troll for a moment. I have been and always will be truthful with this community. Sometimes I can't give you details, but I don't make them up. Attacking my integrity I will not stand for as I do not lie to you, this community, or people in general. That's just not how I live my life.


To your specific instance of the card stats, I did check the stats, and on paper they do balance out. I have the spreadsheet, I've run the numbers. Anything you choose not to believe after that is on you. The perception in game that Offense is OP vs. other stats has to do with having 5 stats, having more players that have high Offense (not surprising in a basketball game, the scores aren't hockey scores after all), and that many of the combination events include Offense. It's a game design issue and one we'll look at in the future, but Offense as a stat is not higher than all the other stats.

*sigh*

The fact that you think I'm a troll is, to me at least, a deficiency on your part.

I don't go out of my way to praise your presence, but I have literally never said anything that I can't back up with real facts. I don't say things for effect, and faaaaaaar more often than not (and far more often than most people), my posts are well thought out and substantive. Even when I make a charge.. It's just that. A substantive charge. People around here yell all sorts of nonsense. I'm not that. If I call you a liar, that's not me name-calling. That is me giving my assessment of the truthfulness of the things you say, as it relates to my perception of what you know, or should know, the truth to be. I don't make the charge lightly, and it's certainly not part of some trolling effort. It is an assessment of how you've represented yourself, and sadly, I think it's a fair assessment. I have no ulterior agenda. I have no reason to want to dislike or mistrust you, and I'm a pretty reasonable, measured person.

As for your truthfulness... see... you just did it again.

Months ago I laid out, in real numbers, how the Top Defender is Legend Tier, is only on par with the 25th ranked Offensive player in the same tier. This is not a matter of "belief"; this is a fact. Defense and Offense are obvious intrinsically linked in this game. Even if they weren't, the simple statistical truth that I just stated, flies in the face of what you're saying.

Running away from the conversation and saying something like "choose to believe what you will" is an insult. Fine. Whatever. I've endured worse in my life. Saying you poured over the stats and came to the conclusion that you did can only have a few possible meanings:

A) You don't understand the order of numbers. I personally don't believe this to be the case.

B) You didn't actually look over the numbers. I find this to be far more likely. This would also mean you saying "I poured over the stats" is a lie.

C) idk... you just don't give a ****.

If I have NUMBERS, and you make a claim that flies in the face of the numbers, what choice do you give me, other than to think you're dismissive, at best.. or a liar, at worst?

We're not talking opinions here. We're talking numbers.

You refusing to engage in a conversation that COULD be super simple, civil, and productivr, and instead tainting it with disrespectful dismissiveness and/or lies, is your choice. As the De facto community manager for CD.. it's a really bad, totally unnecessary choice.

Just like this whole fiasco. On the last page, you gave decent reasons why your team made the choice they did with season rewards. People can choose to agree or not. You COULD have done this yesterday. Instead you chose to try to equate the loss of 2 Star cards, with a 400 credit replacement and say it's even. It just clearly isn't. Your team wants to slow the influx of cards into the market. OK cool. That's a REAL reason. There's a difference. Real reasons go over way better than dismissive nonsense.

What seemed to have happened was, yesterday, you tried to bamboozle us with something disingenuous like we're children, saw how horribly that went over, then today decided to try being honest and giving real reasons, like we're adults.

But I guess I'm just trolling.

That's it from me. No more reason to clutter the thread with this.

[Musubi]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Average non-MVP/All-Star/HOF Star card:
Off: 3352
Def: 3180
Reb: 3109
Ply: 3138
Ath:3163

Standard Deviation:
Off: 108
Def: 84
Reb:142
Ply: 118
Ath: 34

Chi Squared of the five average attributes, with a null of equal distributions. The p value is 0.0225, which is significant, otherwise meaning there is a 2.25% chance the five values are equally distributed.