RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

[eVizions]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

You've completely ignored the main point. You keep trying to equate Credits to dollars and you can't because Credits are given away for free. Again, pack pricing is based around the fact that a player earns free Credits from Seasons, Daily VC Bonus, and the AH. As the next poster pointed out, the bulk of that coming from the AH. There are very few people that are buying HoF packs without using free Credits for at least a portion of that purchase. Given how many free Credits players get right now, if the pack price was lowered everyone would be running around with HoF pros. Considering they are the best cards in the game that is not desired. They should be the card to strive for and earn.

I get your point and, to a certain degree, I agree with what you're saying. The part of your logic that I believe is flawed is the part about us being able to get "huge" amounts of credits for free. Daily bonus gives us virtually nothing. Season rewards don't give us anything worth building on (the absolute most you can earn is 1/10 a HOF pack every 4 days). AH is the only viable avenue to try to build credits and that's far from easy. IF I sell 3 stars at minimum (which is not easy to do), I can earn enough to buy one HOF pack. It will take me about a week to earn those 3. Progress is quite slow. I can't resell cards to earn credits, so I either need to take months to build enough credits to buy a few HOF packs (discounting how long it takes to get to Star tier in the first place) or spend real money. I don't think you give out nearly as many credits or good cards as you seem to think.

[SmartForce]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

I think the thing that gets me about the whole "Credits are free" argument is that the credit rewards for seasons was just recently introduced. Before that, the only "free" credits came from the daily VC bonus, and that was like 15-45 credits ... and zero if you got a player or enhancement.

Packs cost 2500 for Epic to Legendary, 5,000 for Legendary to Star, 6,500 for guaranteed Star, and 10,000 for HoF ... and all those parks came before the AH and introduction of credits for season rewards.

If CD posted transparent breakdowns of how many total credits have been purchased compared to how many entered the system "free", I think we all know the vast majority are going to have been purchased.

The earlier point about the AH costs being tied to pack costs is cogent, because those pack costs pre-dated the introduction of the AH, and lots of us bought credits to buy packs.

So yeah ... for a lot of people, the HoF pack was $67. That's not spin or just our viewpoint. Before the AH and before seasons rewarded credits, that was the cold, hard cash cost. And when you tell someone they are basically lying by making the comparison of 1 card to the cost of a full cost video game, that's a bit insulting to people who spent money.

Also, when it comes to credits via the seasons, there's some harsh realities. I'll use my own experience as an example:

I spent money to improve my deck in ways that satisfied me. I'm not at all upset about my spending. I enjoy the app. That said, I think I'm around $700 or so in. As a result, my current deck consists of the following:

7 Pro Stars
2 RC Stars
2 Stars that I could pro
3 Pro Legendaries
3 Pro Epics

I have certainly had success selling UR/Epic/Leg on the AH, I assume mostly for people to use as training fodder. I also used $240 in credit purchases when the AH first came out to jump up to 3 Pro stars.

Now ... with all of this, I have never won a season since the credit rewards were introduced. In 3 Legendary seasons, I was always trucked by someone who could have played a star season and easily made the quarterfinals and gotten a star card, but instead weakened their deck just enough to maximize their chance for Star + 400 credits.

My best finish in a star season has been 2nd place, and the 200 credits I got for 2nd place put me at -100 for the season since I used 3 assistant managers for that season.

If I could consistently win seasons, then that would be one thing ... but only one person can win a season and that's 98-110 hours plus time waiting to matchmake into a season.

So I think I would feel safe making a wager that far more credits that are in the system were paid for with cash than generated by any game mechanism for free. And while it is true that I can use the AH to sell things I get for credits ... those credits had to originate somewhere ... and the numbers just don't make sense to assume that more than a very small percentage came from thin air.

And I'm completely fine with that. CatDaddy should make money ... they are a business. My argument was that more people would be willing to shell out money to pro their final RttC reward if they could do so reliably compared to however many do so via gambling (at 1 in 65 chance for HoF on 10,000 credits a pop, and I don't believe the odds are known for PnP packs, so I can't make a comparison).

I mean ... I'm fairly certain that if at the end of the RttC if CD popped up a little prompt "Spend $100 to $200" (whatever CD would charge that would fall within the range enough people would find reasonable) and that would give me a 2nd copy of the final reward, they'd get that on the spot from me.

And there would be no "free" credits used for that, since it would have to be paid for on the spot.

As always, thanks for interacting with us Brad and Danan. I know you guys have a lot on your plate, and you have a lot of pressures and things that factor into your decision making that you can't really share with us, and of course the viewpoint of the seller and the buyer are always going to be at odds when it comes to what it costs to gain something.

I just want you guys to keep one big thing in mind when you're talking to those of us who spend hundreds of dollars or more (and I'm sure I'm nowhere near the top of your customer list in terms of money spent). This app will cease to function sometime not long after the next version comes out. I won't be able to do anything with all of the cards I get from the money I spent and then playing with them. That money I spend has a very short time limited lifetime to give me value, and then it's gone.

In contrast, I have MVP Baseball 05, the last year EA put out the game because 2K bought up exclusive rights (I also own the MLB 2K series for PC up through 2012, the last year it was available for PC). The MVP baseball game gets updated every year by modders and continues to be an entertaining (and updated) product, a decade later. MLB 2K12 is my 2nd most played game on STEAM with 427 hours recorded (behind only Civ 5 with 521 hours). It is followed by NBA 2K15 with 321 hours on record and NBA 2K14 with 290 hours on record, and then Borderlands with 138 hours. (Interestingly, my top 5 games by hours played are all published by 2K).

I paid $20 to $100 for those games (depending on various DLC and whether I got them on sale or not). I can continue to play them into the future for as long as I derive enjoyment from doing so.

I've spent more on MyNBA2k15 Mobile than all of those games combined. It will stop functioning next year sometime after you guys put out the 2016 version of the app. I won't be able to open it up and look at my collection or play a few quick games or anything. It will just be gone.

From that perspective ... that's why I'd like to be able to have a nice Pro HoF/PnP/Playoff lineup when it's all said and done. I'd like to enjoy it to the max while I can, since my purchase has a very limited shelf life compared to other things I spend with my entertainment budget.

Again ... thanks for interacting with the community. I appreciate that you guys set aside time to chat with us and give us feedback on our thoughts and ideas. I'm doing my best to make suggestions that seem balanced to achieve the goals of both the buyers and the sellers in this relationship. I hope that my suggestions are coming across less offensively these days.

Have a great day guys. Looking forward to the playoff stuff.

[brad_nicholson]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

I think the thing that gets me about the whole "Credits are free" argument is that the credit rewards for seasons was just recently introduced. Before that, the only "free" credits came from the daily VC bonus, and that was like 15-45 credits ... and zero if you got a player or enhancement.

Packs cost 2500 for Epic to Legendary, 5,000 for Legendary to Star, 6,500 for guaranteed Star, and 10,000 for HoF ... and all those parks came before the AH and introduction of credits for season rewards.

If CD posted transparent breakdowns of how many total credits have been purchased compared to how many entered the system "free", I think we all know the vast majority are going to have been purchased.

The earlier point about the AH costs being tied to pack costs is cogent, because those pack costs pre-dated the introduction of the AH, and lots of us bought credits to buy packs.

So yeah ... for a lot of people, the HoF pack was $67. That's not spin or just our viewpoint. Before the AH and before seasons rewarded credits, that was the cold, hard cash cost. And when you tell someone they are basically lying by making the comparison of 1 card to the cost of a full cost video game, that's a bit insulting to people who spent money.

Also, when it comes to credits via the seasons, there's some harsh realities. I'll use my own experience as an example:

I spent money to improve my deck in ways that satisfied me. I'm not at all upset about my spending. I enjoy the app. That said, I think I'm around $700 or so in. As a result, my current deck consists of the following:

7 Pro Stars
2 RC Stars
2 Stars that I could pro
3 Pro Legendaries
3 Pro Epics

I have certainly had success selling UR/Epic/Leg on the AH, I assume mostly for people to use as training fodder. I also used $240 in credit purchases when the AH first came out to jump up to 3 Pro stars.

Now ... with all of this, I have never won a season since the credit rewards were introduced. In 3 Legendary seasons, I was always trucked by someone who could have played a star season and easily made the quarterfinals and gotten a star card, but instead weakened their deck just enough to maximize their chance for Star + 400 credits.

My best finish in a star season has been 2nd place, and the 200 credits I got for 2nd place put me at -100 for the season since I used 3 assistant managers for that season.

If I could consistently win seasons, then that would be one thing ... but only one person can win a season and that's 98-110 hours plus time waiting to matchmake into a season.

So I think I would feel safe making a wager that far more credits that are in the system were paid for with cash than generated by any game mechanism for free. And while it is true that I can use the AH to sell things I get for credits ... those credits had to originate somewhere ... and the numbers just don't make sense to assume that more than a very small percentage came from thin air.

And I'm completely fine with that. CatDaddy should make money ... they are a business. My argument was that more people would be willing to shell out money to pro their final RttC reward if they could do so reliably compared to however many do so via gambling (at 1 in 65 chance for HoF on 10,000 credits a pop, and I don't believe the odds are known for PnP packs, so I can't make a comparison).

I mean ... I'm fairly certain that if at the end of the RttC if CD popped up a little prompt "Spend $100 to $200" (whatever CD would charge that would fall within the range enough people would find reasonable) and that would give me a 2nd copy of the final reward, they'd get that on the spot from me.

And there would be no "free" credits used for that, since it would have to be paid for on the spot.

As always, thanks for interacting with us Brad and Danan. I know you guys have a lot on your plate, and you have a lot of pressures and things that factor into your decision making that you can't really share with us, and of course the viewpoint of the seller and the buyer are always going to be at odds when it comes to what it costs to gain something.

I just want you guys to keep one big thing in mind when you're talking to those of us who spend hundreds of dollars or more (and I'm sure I'm nowhere near the top of your customer list in terms of money spent). This app will cease to function sometime not long after the next version comes out. I won't be able to do anything with all of the cards I get from the money I spent and then playing with them. That money I spend has a very short time limited lifetime to give me value, and then it's gone.

In contrast, I have MVP Baseball 05, the last year EA put out the game because 2K bought up exclusive rights (I also own the MLB 2K series for PC up through 2012, the last year it was available for PC). The MVP baseball game gets updated every year by modders and continues to be an entertaining (and updated) product, a decade later. MLB 2K12 is my 2nd most played game on STEAM with 427 hours recorded (behind only Civ 5 with 521 hours). It is followed by NBA 2K15 with 321 hours on record and NBA 2K14 with 290 hours on record, and then Borderlands with 138 hours. (Interestingly, my top 5 games by hours played are all published by 2K).

I paid $20 to $100 for those games (depending on various DLC and whether I got them on sale or not). I can continue to play them into the future for as long as I derive enjoyment from doing so.

I've spent more on MyNBA2k15 Mobile than all of those games combined. It will stop functioning next year sometime after you guys put out the 2016 version of the app. I won't be able to open it up and look at my collection or play a few quick games or anything. It will just be gone.

From that perspective ... that's why I'd like to be able to have a nice Pro HoF/PnP/Playoff lineup when it's all said and done. I'd like to enjoy it to the max while I can, since my purchase has a very limited shelf life compared to other things I spend with my entertainment budget.

Again ... thanks for interacting with the community. I appreciate that you guys set aside time to chat with us and give us feedback on our thoughts and ideas. I'm doing my best to make suggestions that seem balanced to achieve the goals of both the buyers and the sellers in this relationship. I hope that my suggestions are coming across less offensively these days.

Have a great day guys. Looking forward to the playoff stuff.

dude, nothing you say comes across as offensive. you're super measured, thoughtful, and respectful. it's a joy to read your stuff. i see passion and intelligence and a deep desire to interact with our game on a deeper level. it's really cool to see your thoughts on this board. i mean that, man.

more on the topic: i think the bigger rub, when we talk about players in the 'upper echelon,' is that some (read: not all) of ya'll have a metric **** ton of credits stored up, you know? so, yeah, the prices look pretty wonky if you're converting it to real dollars. and yeah, the auction house might look like it doesn't work because you're not making the kind of skrilla that you already have.

a lot of these systems and mechanics in myNBA work really, really well for the vast majority of players because they're at a much lower level. does that mean we shouldn't cater to you guys? not at all. but it's good to go into these discussions with that context in mind.

[redsox4evur]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Spoiler

NWGD, it sounds a little like you're saying something along the lines of the following:

HOF packs are not priced unreasonably because:

1. You can earn free credits (negligible impact, if we're speaking honestly here)
2. You can earn lots of credits through AH sales (3500 for a minimum bid star -- this is a very good point).


Therefore, if the packs were priced any lower, then they would be too easy to obtain.

This all makes perfect sense to me, and I completely agree with that assessment. Currently the HOF pack can be bought if I sell 3 star cards. If it could be bought if I sold 2 star cards, well, it might be a little too easy to obtain.

But weren't the minimums, and therefore what you can earn off a sale, based around the pack prices to begin with?

It looks circular:

Pack prices --> dictates minimums (so you don't undercut yourself) --> dictates new pack prices --> dictates new minimums; etc.

I have no problems with the pack prices right now; I don't see how they could reasonably be lowered without making them too easy to obtain using the current pricing model.

But does this indicate there may be an issue with the pricing model? That it was off by enough of a margin to begin with so that HOF packs are met with such resistance at their price, especially because they are so hard to pro?

I think what is upsetting users is not that, within the credit ecosystem of MYNBA2k15 the pack prices are relatively expensive (this is not a problem); I believe it has more to do with the fact that the ecosystem itself starts of relatively expensive when converted to actual dollars.

Spoiler

Gotta come to CD defense here.

I think they've gotten RttC just about as right as possible.

I'm far from a CD apologist, but the arguments against CD in this thread are so bad.

1. You guys are being TOTALLY disingenuous in some of these points. Saying packs cost $100 is just a lie. I personally have gone from 6 Star Pros at the start of the AH Beta, up to 15, including 2 MVP Pros, and I haven't spent more than $5 of real money since AH came out. And I haven't even really been a heavy buyer on the AH. I've bought one Star Pro, and two single Stars off AH since it came out. That's it. I, somehow, have 9 more Star Pros than I started with (10 really, because I sold one).

Again. I've spent no more than $5. Is that a representative sampling? Probably not. But I refuse to believe I'm getting over THAT much more than EVERYONE else. If you can't come by TENS OF THOUSANDS of free credits in this game, I'm not sure what you're doing.

What world are you guys living in where you are incapable of coming by credits in this game, and have to fund everything with real money? My guess is, you aren't actually doing that, and again, you're just being really disingenuous, and killing your credibility in the process.

2. The argument that you should just be able to easily pro your RttC winnings is just silly. The argument that you should be able to pro them, without going to AH is really ridiculous.

By your own admissions, RttC and RC rewards go for SUPER cheap on the AH. If you want to Pro your reward, go to the AH, and bid minimum on one of the flooooooood of cards available, and there you go.

Thinking it should be any easier than that just shows a complete lack of understanding of the metagame here. If you really think everyone should be able to Pro whatever they want, with minimal investment of time and effort, how can you not think that with spur too much progression?

Idk... Pros shouldn't be that easy to come by. AH even existing already makes it too easy. If that is somehow still not easy enough, all you're really saying is that you want everything you want ad easily as possible, for free, and the game sucks if you can't get it. A lot of you really do come off as whiny children, in that regard.

I gotta agree with both of you. Now I started playing the game late because I knew I couldn't use the daily bonus because I didn't have the console game. So I am now having to grind to get cards and I am fine with that. I like most of the ideas of that CD has implemented. I love the new RC structure. I haven't done much grinded compared to that upper echelon. And I have gotten my first 2 Legendaries. Whereas if the old rewards were still there, I think they would have been Epic Pros. But I don't care I'll take the Legendary. When the times come I can probably sell it easier than the Epic Pros. The Auction House helped me get my best card, an Epic Pro Mid Season Waiters. I did a buy back with a fellow forum member because I wasn't sure if I would have the time to grind to get the Epic Pro during the event, I think it was the Ibaka RC, but not positive. And I am loving RTTC it is making me use cards I would never use and I am constantly changing lineup with each new event. Also I love the fact that we get 8 picks for a win and 4 for a loss. Makes getting the clears a lot easier. Now onto packs, I haven't bought many only 1 an All Star pack because I bought the credits pack that cost $20 because during the AH beta I had set up a deal to buy a Leg Pro from a forum member but couldn't because of when his season finished and CD stopping us from posting cards the last 2 days. But as the 2 people I quoted said there are a ton of ways to get credits in this game. You can spend money, use the AH and sell cards, Daily Bonus, grind games and get Ladder Rewards, and play in seasons. Now if you decide that you are going to tank and bow out in the first round of the playoffs and not try to get the card and top credits, you shouldn't complain about pack prices because you have a chance to get credits for a winning a season and you are intentionally losing and not getting credits. Also as NWG said you can't compare credits to real $ because we can get credits for free in game through AH, daily bonus (not much but still free), seasons and Ladder Rewards.

[vermouth]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Maybe im missing the point, but I just cant be bothered reading the essays people keep posting. I don't know why there is so much complaining about RTTC, I think its designed really good.

Why should someone with a weak deck get the top reward, build your deck, put the hard work in and get the top prize when you have a deck that can compete, or pay the credits and grind losses if you really want to.

I agree! I think RTTC structure is great where not everyone can get top rewards. You gotta play the game to get better cards earn credits. I haven't spent money on this game since final version of AH has comeout and I've earned a good amount of credits. Great example on how credits can be free on this game is after the Raptors-Nets RC where I ran for Top 25 and got Hakeem Pro I was out of credits. Like from 40k credits to 500 credits coz I opened 2 MVP packs and spent 27k on Hotstreaks and now 2 weeks after that I'm at 43k credits just from playing the game getting lucky coz luck is a part of the game and got star, epic and legendary cards I was able to sell to make credits again and now I'm ready for this week's RTTC of my favorite player LeBron and I'm gonna try for top 25 again next week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ActionJack]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

snip

Couple things:

1. AH predates HOF pack. There has not been a point in this game's life at which HOF Packs were being sold, without AH existing. If you paid full price for a HOF pack, it was your own choice. Even with that being the case, if you haven't recooped that spending via AH sales, after the fact, well.. I'm not sure what you're doing. Which brings me to..

2. If you've spent $700 on this game, and only have 7 Star Pros to show for it, you're doing it wrong.

I've spent less than $50 total (spent MUCH more last year, and decided not to for this version), and I have 15, with a couple dozen singles ready to sell whenever. If you have spent $700 and only have the deck that you have, that's not the game's fault. You're just not optimizing your spending/playing.

If you're using 3 managers in a season, just to get 2nd... Idk man. I've used 3 managers ever in this game, and have won a couple dozen seasons at least. Obviously luck and fortune accounts for some of that difference, but I have to posite the notion that maybe you're just not good at the game. I never even thought that was a thing that was possible (I never thought of this as anything close to a skill game), but if you are doing all you're doing, and have so little to show for it, you should stop and examine what youre doing.

I guess that's a disconnect here. In any system there are gonna be winners and losers, hustlers and those that get hustled. If I was getting worked like you seem to be, maybe I'd want somebody to step in too (prob not, but maybe). I don't know that CD needs to step in. Maybe people need to just stop making bad decisions with their cash/credits.

[eVizions]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

dude, nothing you say comes across as offensive. you're super measured, thoughtful, and respectful. it's a joy to read your stuff. i see passion and intelligence and a deep desire to interact with our game on a deeper level. it's really cool to see your thoughts on this board. i mean that, man.

more on the topic: i think the bigger rub, when we talk about players in the 'upper echelon,' is that some (read: not all) of ya'll have a metric **** ton of credits stored up, you know? so, yeah, the prices look pretty wonky if you're converting it to real dollars. and yeah, the auction house might look like it doesn't work because you're not making the kind of skrilla that you already have.

a lot of these systems and mechanics in myNBA work really, really well for the vast majority of players because they're at a much lower level. does that mean we shouldn't cater to you guys? not at all. but it's good to go into these discussions with that context in mind.

I have like 30k credits saved up, which isn't a ton, but it's more than a little. It's taken me awhile to get that amount and, because I know making credits isn't easy, I am not spending them until the Playoff tier is out. If I could sell stuff or make credits easier, I would've bought HOF packs. I've even stopped buying Stars to pro mine from AH, simply because I know that once I deplete them, it would take me forever to get them back, which means the only way I'll be able to pro my Playoff cards is to drop real money, and I don't feel like dropping $100 on one card. I just don't.

That mentality may be unique to me, but that's my mindset. So for the past month or so, I've stopped buying from the AH (with one or two exceptions), I've been trying to sell whatever I can (Star Pros almost never sell) and I've been hoarding credits like it's the Great Depression. If a digital economy is tight with credits, then I'll be tight with them, too.

[SmartForce]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Couple things:

1. AH predates HOF pack. There has not been a point in this game's life at which HOF Packs were being sold, without AH existing. If you paid full price for a HOF pack, it was your own choice. Even with that being the case, if you haven't recooped that spending via AH sales, after the fact, well.. I'm not sure what you're doing. Which brings me to..

2. If you've spent $700 on this game, and only have 7 Star Pros to show for it, you're doing it wrong.

I've spent less than $50 total (spent MUCH more last year, and decided not to for this version), and I have 15, with a couple dozen singles ready to sell whenever. If you have spent $700 and only have the deck that you have, that's not the game's fault. You're just not optimizing your spending/playing.

If you're using 3 managers in a season, just to get 2nd... Idk man. I've used 3 managers ever in this game, and have won a couple dozen seasons at least. Obviously luck and fortune accounts for some of that difference, but I have to posite the notion that maybe you're just not good at the game. I never even thought that was a thing that was possible (I never thought of this as anything close to a skill game), but if you are doing all you're doing, and have so little to show for it, you should stop and examine what youre doing.

I guess that's a disconnect here. In any system there are gonna be winners and losers, hustlers and those that get hustled. If I was getting worked like you seem to be, maybe I'd want somebody to step in too (prob not, but maybe). I don't know that CD needs to step in. Maybe people need to just stop making bad decisions with their cash/credits.

This isn't the first time you've insulted me by saying I should have more to show for the money I spent. Most of the estimated amount I spent pre-dates the AH and purchased packs on sale that had like Epic to Star chances, and I got Epics and Legendaries out of those purchases. I'm not sure why you feel the need to come at me repeatedly and tell me I'm stupid, but you don't know me and you just undercut yourself when you post stuff like that.

Also, the HoF pack for 10,000 credits was released before the Auction House final release. I know there was an AH beta period before the HoF packs, but that was a short beta test, and even with that AH beta, the credits that people "earned" still originated almost entirely from money spent. Prior to the most recent patch that put money into rewards for being top-4 in seasons, the best you could do was 15-75 credits a day on the daily VC bonus, and the 75 was only if you matched 3x 500 VC cards. Most of the time it was more like 15-30 for matching the lower value cards.

So there are certainly people who had a huge benefit from the old seasons system by winning 3 stars and stocking them up and made a huge amount during the AH beta and those people got to buy HoF packs with credits they didn't buy ... but those people were winning seasons and way ahead of the curve, so it seems very likely they spent on hot streaks for RC events and/or for packs.

You talk about winning "a couple dozen" seasons, which is several months of time. I haven't been playing seriously that long. The first time I participated in an RC event was the Clippers one. I was in UR tier until the AH came out.

Since the AH came out, I've spent $240, and that $240 resulted in 7 pro stars, 3 pro legendaries, 2 RC singles. I would say that given $100 = 15,000 credits = 3 pro cards total ... then 7 pro stars is 14 star cards which is nearly $500 in value.

So I seem to have managed to get double what I've spent in just value of my Pro Stars... since the Auction House came out.

As for what I spent before that, and what I got, feel free to look at my earlier posts. I bought packs on sale mostly and you now see me shying away from buying packs because that experience resulted in me mostly getting the worst possible result from the packs.

Again I have to wonder why you feel the need to attack me and disparage me. It's almost as if you derive your real life status from "gaming" this app or something. This is a game. It is entertainment. It belongs firmly in the realm of entertainment, and it entertains me. I enjoy it or I wouldn't spend time playing and discussing it.

I don't really care about "winning" it or "gaming" it or being the best hustler or whatever it is you're going on about. I've spent less than one half of one percent of my net take home pay on this app. To me, it's a drop in the bucket. Why do you think I'm saying I'd drop $200 on the spot twice a month to end up with a Pro version of the final RttC card?

[ActionJack]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

So fragile.

Nobody is attacking you or berating you. You post up your experience, as an exhibit in your argument for changes you would like to be made. Once you post an opinion on a public forum, you open yourself up to critique. That's just how it works. For my money, it's THE reason to post on a public forum. If you don't want anyone to comment on what you're saying... maybe don't post it?

If you want to make an argument, and use your own personal experience as a basis for that argument, I don't have the right to examine your experience (that you made public), and develop a counter argument based on it? I don't agree with your viewpoint, and it's my belief that your view on the game on the whole... wanting it to fundamentally change for EVERYONE.. is largely based on your own poor decision making. Sorry if I don't think one person's questionable decision making should be an impetus for massive change for everyone.

That's not an insult. It's a pragmatic response to your own argument. If that isn't something you want, again, maybe just email Feedback, and talk one on one with the Dev. If you're gonna post on a public forum, you invite opinions and critiques.

And no, I don't derive any sort of status from playing this game. My handle on here and the game aren't even the same thing, so I I was trying to get some e thrills off of this, I'd have been going about it all wrong to begin with. I just have opinions, and I thought the whole point of a public forum was to discuss them with other people. Not say my piece, then cry if somebody disagrees :-/


Edit- also I think HOF tier came out with the final release of AH, not with the beta. I may be wrong about that.. but I don't think I am.

[SmartForce]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Re-read your prior post to me. There's a lot of attack there. Phrases like "you're doing it wrong", and "get hustled" and such.

You also admit you spent a lot last year, which implies you probably started with the 5x UR lineup of loyalty cards, and have probably been playing this year right since the start.

That's where you and I differ. I found out about this app from a steam forum post in December sometime and used it for like a while just for the daily VC and the VC from picking game winners. The first time I did anything with an event was after the AH beta.

As for the HoF pre-dating the final AH, they may or may not. I might be thinking of the 6,500 credit MVP packs as the guaranteed star packs that pre-date the AH.

So here's the comparison between you and I ... I spent around $450 to get into the game, learn it, play around in the lower tiers and had fun with it. That put me around where you would have been from your loyalty rewards from last year's app.

Then, when I knew the AH was coming, I used some cash and got myself ready to be competitive for the introduction of Playoff tier.


As for me using myself as an example ... that's all I can do. I don't know the particulars of anyone else, although I know some of the folks on this forum drop in excess of a thousand bucks a month on the app, so I know I'm nowhere near the top spenders.

[ActionJack]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

I'm not getting on you for spending money. Play how you want to. I decided against paying this year, because I liked the introduction of tier progression, and didn't want to skip past it. I have no stance against people spending hundreds or even thousands on this game. Makes no difference to me.

Where I see the issue here, is that you are putting forth an argument, based on your own spending, and not accounting for the context surrounding your own spending.. or the larger community on the whole. You say you can only speak for yourself... I disagree. If $700 doesn't represent much money to you, then that tells me you're an adult. Adults largely have the ability to divorce themselves from a situation, and take a bird's eye approach to a particular issue. I am SURE you are capable of this.

Saying things like "packs cost $100!" WILLFULLY ignores the actual reality of the situation: that packs are expensive, but there are all sorts of ways to curb or even eliminate the cost. There are other arguments floating around here that, again, WILLFULLY ignore reality, just to make a point.

If you have to disregard reality to make your point, it probably just isn't that strong. Or if the point actually is strong, you weaken it by employing disingenuous exaggeration.

That's the entire point I'm making. Insomuch as how it relates to you, throwing out the $700 number, but failing to provide the context that most of that was spent on cards with little to no present value, or sunk into unwinnable seasons or whatever.. is something that demands examination. For me to come to the conclusion that maybe you just didn't spend that money all that wisely, is, to me, beyond fair. And more than being just fair, it is necessary in this discussion. Sure, there are differences in our trajectory in the game (which is why I did, and typically do, go out of my way to state that I DON'T believe my particular experience is representative of the average player- I feel I've caught quite a few lucky breaks), but if you can post what $700 bought you in an effort to sway how EVERYONE will be able to play the game in the future, I feel like I have to question that, and provide the counter point of what $50 was able to get me.

I don't think I'm Warren Buffet, or Gordon Gekko, and I'm not listening to Rick Ross mixtapes about being a hustler, while scouring the Auction House. I just think there needs to be some context here, and people are going out of their way to make their points, and leaving what they KNOW to be reality behind in that attempt.

[SmartForce]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

A 10,000 credit pack really is $67. If I spend $100 for 15,000 credits, then 2/3 of that is $67.

It doesn't have to be my money, but it seems very likely that a very large majority of the credits in the game were purchased with cash. I can get them on the AH, at no cost to myself (except for time spent playing to get what I'm selling to someone else), but it seems patently clear that a very large portion of the credits I get from AH sales originated via people spending money on credit bundles.

CD reps are purposefully vague about this. They say "a lot" of credits are given away for free, and I'm sure with the 180,000 people who participate in the RC events, it's possible that all of those folks are pulling in the small amount of free credits every day from the VC bonus board, and that would add up to a lot of credits.

But how many total credits are there in the system? What percentage of total credits that have ever been introduced into the economy were free? 5%? 10%? Those are probably guesses on the high side.

Just because I can grind out cards and sell them on the AH and end up with credits that I spent only time to get does not mean that those credits are disconnected from the real world economy. It's a specious argument to say that they have no relationship to money spent.

The data is withheld, and only CD could possibly know, and they specifically avoid going anywhere near the realm of being specific at all when talking about it.

In the end, all we can say for certain is that any purchase that uses AH derived funds has some portion of its credits as a result of real money being spent. How much we cannot say because CD doesn't feel that its in their best interests to give specific figures.

With specifics, it would be very easy to run the math and see what the "real" cost of a 1 in 65 chance to pro an HoF card at 10,000 credits per attempt ends up being.

[Illmatic1909]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

A 10,000 credit pack really is $67. If I spend $100 for 15,000 credits, then 2/3 of that is $67.

It doesn't have to be my money, but it seems very likely that a very large majority of the credits in the game were purchased with cash. I can get them on the AH, at no cost to myself (except for time spent playing to get what I'm selling to someone else), but it seems patently clear that a very large portion of the credits I get from AH sales originated via people spending money on credit bundles.

CD reps are purposefully vague about this. They say "a lot" of credits are given away for free, and I'm sure with the 180,000 people who participate in the RC events, it's possible that all of those folks are pulling in the small amount of free credits every day from the VC bonus board, and that would add up to a lot of credits.

But how many total credits are there in the system? What percentage of total credits that have ever been introduced into the economy were free? 5%? 10%? Those are probably guesses on the high side.

Just because I can grind out cards and sell them on the AH and end up with credits that I spent only time to get does not mean that those credits are disconnected from the real world economy. It's a specious argument to say that they have no relationship to money spent.

The data is withheld, and only CD could possibly know, and they specifically avoid going anywhere near the realm of being specific at all when talking about it.

In the end, all we can say for certain is that any purchase that uses AH derived funds has some portion of its credits as a result of real money being spent. How much we cannot say because CD doesn't feel that its in their best interests to give specific figures.

With specifics, it would be very easy to run the math and see what the "real" cost of a 1 in 65 chance to pro an HoF card at 10,000 credits per attempt ends up being.

They are giving away cards that can be sold in the AH. In essence, you are getting currency for free. NWGameDad has made it clear that card pulls are one of the sources for your income, in addition to seasons and daily bonus...therefore devaluating the value of in-game credits. Just because someone pays $100 bucks for 15K doesn't mean it was worth $100...as he has also said.

[ActionJack]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

But it doesn't matter if the credits were originally purchased or not. Why does that matter?

If I get the pack for free, how can I complain about the cost? Because somebody else bought credits? That's ludicrous.

Also, if you got credits from your own AH sales, then bought a pack, in this situation, the $67 designation is absolutely wrong. You are describing a situation in which somebody spent money, to buy credits, and with those credits, here's what got bought: A) whatever card the original player bought from you on the AH, and B) whatever pack you bought.

If I spend $100 on credits, I get 15000 credits. If I then immediately spend that on a HOF pack, yeah, that was $67. If that is what happens always, then yes. Those packs cost $67. If anything else happens ever, then that aggregate cost goes down. It just does. This isn't a matter of opinion. This is simple, basic fact.

So again, if I spend $100, get 15000 credits, then buy a Star PTO from you for 15000, you can take your earnings and buy a HOF pack, and still have 500 credits left over.

Now all of a sudden, my $100 accounted for one 15000 credit purchase, and another 10000 credit purchase. $100 accounted for 25000 credits spent... it bought a HOF pack AND a Star Pro... so how does the HOF cost $67, if $100 pays for one of them, AND something 50% more valuable. Under this scenario, the HOF pack was only $40 of real money.

Even with CDs ridiculous 30% tax, this happens.

Now there is no way to know exactly how credits cycle before they are purged from the system, but we can reasonably assume that it isn't a 1:1 scenario (like you're trying to imply) or whatever it works out to if you just take 30% away after every transaction. It's somewhere in between.

Again... It just is. This isn't opinion.

A HOF pack is only $67 if we ignore how credits actually flow, don't know the math, or if you GENUINELY believe that every single HOF pack was paid for with a cash transaction at the point of sale (not cash infused before by somebody else).

So if you acknowledge that every pack sale isn't a cash transaction, then you calling it a $67 card is not honest.

[CitronsG6]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

But it doesn't matter if the credits were originally purchased or not. Why does that matter?

If I get the pack for free, how can I complain about the cost? Because somebody else bought credits? That's ludicrous.

Also, if you got credits from your own AH sales, then bought a pack, in this situation, the $67 designation is absolutely wrong. You are describing a situation in which somebody spent money, to buy credits, and with those credits, here's what got bought: A) whatever card the original player bought from you on the AH, and B) whatever pack you bought.

If I spend $100 on credits, I get 15000 credits. If I then immediately spend that on a HOF pack, yeah, that was $67. If that is what happens always, then yes. Those packs cost $67. If anything else happens ever, then that aggregate cost goes down. It just does. This isn't a matter of opinion. This is simple, basic fact.

So again, if I spend $100, get 15000 credits, then buy a Star PTO from you for 15000, you can take your earnings and buy a HOF pack, and still have 500 credits left over.

Now all of a sudden, my $100 accounted for one 15000 credit purchase, and another 10000 credit purchase. $100 accounted for 25000 credits spent... it bought a HOF pack AND a Star Pro... so how does the HOF cost $67, if $100 pays for one of them, AND something 50% more valuable. Under this scenario, the HOF pack was only $40 of real money.

Even with CDs ridiculous 30% tax, this happens.

Now there is no way to know exactly how credits cycle before they are purged from the system, but we can reasonably assume that it isn't a 1:1 scenario (like you're trying to imply) or whatever it works out to if you just take 30% away after every transaction. It's somewhere in between.

Again... It just is. This isn't opinion.

A HOF pack is only $67 if we ignore how credits actually flow, don't know the math, or if you GENUINELY believe that every single HOF pack was paid for with a cash transaction at the point of sale (not cash infused before by somebody else).

So if you acknowledge that every pack sale isn't a cash transaction, then you calling it a $67 card is not honest.

This guy needs that purple name already.....