RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

[ActionJack]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

This guy needs that purple name already.....

Again... what I'm saying is just indisputable fact. If bringing the truth into the discussion makes me a CD patsy, that just highlights how silly the arguments against them are in this case.

CD does a LOT wrong in this game (again... card stats.. can we EVER get something going on that end?), but RttC isn't one of them IMO, and their valuation of cards and card packs, while not perfect, is at least within the realm of reality. The detractors have to craft all these half-truths to make a semi coherent argument. That says enough on its own.

[joenuts83]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Again... what I'm saying is just indisputable fact. If bringing the truth into the discussion makes me a CD patsy, that just highlights how silly the arguments against them are in this case.

CD does a LOT wrong in this game (again... card stats.. can we EVER get something going on that end?), but RttC isn't one of them IMO, and their valuation of cards and card packs, while not perfect, is at least within the realm of reality. The detractors have to craft all these half-truths to make a semi coherent argument. That says enough on its own.

Totally agree. If you play enough and work th AH with your hard earned deck you can buy premium cards. And yes they are premium as they are the best in the game and hard to dupe. I bought a bunch of MVPS working the AH and didn't cost me a dime. So there are credits floating around you just need to play the right hand and have a little luck. Or play a lot and turn a profit. Like Brad said some of us have a metric ton of credits. I have 50k right now and am saving it for PO tier.

[eVizions]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Totally agree. If you play enough and work th AH with your hard earned deck you can buy premium cards. And yes they are premium as they are the best in the game and hard to dupe. I bought a bunch of MVPS working the AH and didn't cost me a dime. So there are credits floating around you just need to play the right hand and have a little luck. Or play a lot and turn a profit. Like Brad said some of us have a metric ton of credits. I have 50k right now and am saving it for PO tier.

You are in the 1% as far as games played are concerned. Nobody can be expected to play even half as many games as you. Should you have an advantage for playing that many games? Absolutely, but you can't exactly look at your style of play as a blueprint for what others should do.

[eVizions]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Again... what I'm saying is just indisputable fact. If bringing the truth into the discussion makes me a CD patsy, that just highlights how silly the arguments against them are in this case.

CD does a LOT wrong in this game (again... card stats.. can we EVER get something going on that end?), but RttC isn't one of them IMO, and their valuation of cards and card packs, while not perfect, is at least within the realm of reality. The detractors have to craft all these half-truths to make a semi coherent argument. That says enough on its own.

When you point yo your argument as "indisputable fact" and the arguments of others as "half-truths", THAT says enough on its own.

Just because you disagree doesn't make your argument any more valid than his or anyone else's.

[ActionJack]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

When you point yo your argument as "indisputable fact" and the arguments of others as "half-truths", THAT says enough on its own.

Just because you disagree doesn't make your argument any more valid than his or anyone else's.

Ummmmmm... I'm talking math here.

The $67 tag being thrown around is a disingenuous half truth. The take I have on that matter is steeped in fact. It's not an opinion.

The only thing that would keep that $67 number from being a half truth, is if people don't actually understand how wrong it is (they'd still be wrong, but at least it'd be honest).. which isn't the case. The one dude broke down how $67 isn't the right number when taking free credits and AH sales into account.. then went right on using it.

That's the definition of disingenuous.

I'm sorry, but I'm just right here. I know it's polite to pretend both sides of every single argument are equally right, but nah... wrong is wrong.

[nzjase]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Totally agree. If you play enough and work th AH with your hard earned deck you can buy premium cards. And yes they are premium as they are the best in the game and hard to dupe. I bought a bunch of MVPS working the AH and didn't cost me a dime. So there are credits floating around you just need to play the right hand and have a little luck. Or play a lot and turn a profit. Like Brad said some of us have a metric ton of credits. I have 50k right now and am saving it for PO tier.

You guys are right (NWG, Brad, ActionJack etc). You will have seen posts from me previously and I have been very negative about some of the changes made but CD has listened to some feedback, for example we campaigned on Epic AH pricing and they adjusted it, and now after reading all the purple posts in here I think I have to say I think the game is on the right track.

I would like to claim to be a free player but I have spent about £10 on the app now to make a couple of transactions happen.

Anyway the purpose of posting that is to put across the view point of a free to play player (I still consider myself that, what is £10 lol). I started mid Jan after using the app for console VC and over the first 4-6 weeks managed to get myself to around the epic+ level. Over then next 4-6 weeks I have managed to get to star ++ in quick games. Technically as high as you can go (I know my QG LU is **** but it is still star ++)

All of this is only possible because of the auction house, RC and RttC rewards.

I think the 30% tax is too steep, the RttC should allow you to grind out +2 wins at the level above your deck and RC is slightly too heavily weighted to the top 1k (but removing pros was good in hindsight) but no matter what we, you or anyone says about where credits come from only £10 (give or take) has come from me and my seasons / QG lineup now reads:

PG - Star pro Word B Free
SG - Star pro Dumars
SF - Star pro Baylor
PF - Star pro Lewis
C - Star pro Gasol
Res - 5x leg pros

The above has been created with 12k games played and what I consider to be a £10 donation. Imagine the lineup I would be rocking if CD gave in to all our suggestions?!?

Anyway I think balance in the game is just about right. I shouldn't have any HOF players, I am too new to have the stars to work the AH and haven't paid the cash for credits which is right. In the future I hope to have some as I will be hitting PO seasons shortly after release (hopefully) so while not on an even footing progress wise I should be a lot closer than I was 6-12 weeks ago.

Anyway a long winded post, using my own experiences, just to say thank you to NW, Brad and CD for a change.

But please don't stop listening though, there are issues in the auction house setup (see my post on this from a few weeks ago), RttC difficulty and weighting of rewards in RCs but it is getting there

[Sir Master Tim]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

While AJ has a firm reasoning that HoF packs are not $67(though they can potentially be) I gotta ask the question that feeds off of SF, What happens when credits become scarce?


We are currently still in the AH infancy to were there was a buildup of credits. Players heard there was going to be an AH so they started to save credits. An obvious point yes but important none the less. But everyday that goes bye, credits will become harder and harder to come by due to posting fees,taxes, and other sources like people buying packs. This IS NOT an argument against any of those things but they still have to be accounted for. NW and BRad have said that players can come across credits for free. A daily VC logically pays for 1 or 2 post on the AH everyday, so we do benefit from those free credits. Lets ASSUME that both of those post do sell, we will gain 2x %70 profit. Again beneficial and free. I can do two things-


1.Continue to save up for a pack, in which case EVERY credit earned for free/baught returns to CD.


2.Buy a card off the AH, in which case another %30 will be returned to CD and the cycle continues until CD gets every last Credit.


Again, I AM NOT TRYING TO ARGUE AGAINST THE AH. Or at least not in this post. Now it would be unreasonable/unrealistic to say that every player will stop buying credits but there will be a point in time when credits will become scarce and players will not be able to depend on the AH to get them. It may not be in this MY2K lifetime but what will happen in the next My2K when there is not the benefit of hoarding credits? which raises the question


What happens when credits become scarce?

[joenuts83]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Credits won't become scarce so long as seasons are being played and won by humans and not bots. Plus daily VC so the economy will always be strong. ATM it is a buyers market unless you have a popular card.

[brad_nicholson]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

While AJ has a firm reasoning that HoF packs are not $67(though they can potentially be) I gotta ask the question that feeds off of SF, What happens when credits become scarce?


We are currently still in the AH infancy to were there was a buildup of credits. Players heard there was going to be an AH so they started to save credits. An obvious point yes but important none the less. But everyday that goes bye, credits will become harder and harder to come by due to posting fees,taxes, and other sources like people buying packs. This IS NOT an argument against any of those things but they still have to be accounted for. NW and BRad have said that players can come across credits for free. A daily VC logically pays for 1 or 2 post on the AH everyday, so we do benefit from those free credits. Lets ASSUME that both of those post do sell, we will gain 2x %70 profit. Again beneficial and free. I can do two things-


1.Continue to save up for a pack, in which case EVERY credit earned for free/baught returns to CD.


2.Buy a card off the AH, in which case another %30 will be returned to CD and the cycle continues until CD gets every last Credit.


Again, I AM NOT TRYING TO ARGUE AGAINST THE AH. Or at least not in this post. Now it would be unreasonable/unrealistic to say that every player will stop buying credits but there will be a point in time when credits will become scarce and players will not be able to depend on the AH to get them. It may not be in this MY2K lifetime but what will happen in the next My2K when there is not the benefit of hoarding credits? which raises the question


What happens when credits become scarce?

it's an interesting question. i don't know if we'll ever see that, as we give away a lot of free credits and millions of cards everyday.

[Sir Master Tim]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

it's an interesting question. i don't know if we'll ever see that, as we give away a lot of free credits and millions of cards everyday.

Quick question. What does giving away cards have to do with credits?

[drdotwho]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Quick question. What does giving away cards have to do with credits?

they are not directly related to one another. however, if one does get a free card that is profitable from AH -- well then that will be another way of getting free credit (according to what I've read from Brad and NWGD).

[Sir Master Tim]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Credits won't become scarce so long as seasons are being played and won by humans and not bots. Plus daily VC so the economy will always be strong. ATM it is a buyers market unless you have a popular card.

Seasons are just a stopgap. Im currently in legends tier so I will use it as an example. The champion of my season will receive a star card plus 375credits.While in theory we are getting "free credits" the cost of posting and selling a star card will cost 1520credits. 1520-375=1145. That extra 1145 credits has to come from somewhere.

[Sir Master Tim]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

they are not directly related to one another. however, if one does get a free card that is profitable from AH -- well then that will be another way of getting free credit (according to what I've read from Brad and NWGD).

Well that's my point. Selling a card is not free. There is %30tax and 20 posting fee which has to come from somewhere. If we were to be selling to the game,then yes it would be irrelevant. But that isn't the case. We are selling to other players .

[etched Chaos]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

The credits will become scarce and no amount of 'we give away loads of credits' will change that. It's just simple maths, the 30% tax at every card tier is far larger than the season rewards for that tier, eventually the buying and selling will reach a point whereby the 30% tax has exhausted most of the credits available (unless more credits are churned into the economy).

Also, the giving away cards angle is a giant fallacy, having more cards just means there will be more cards in the market and as such there's more chance that credits will decrease faster. There is no added value in drafting a Star card if there is a dwindling market of buyers for said card.

A final point those season rewards (which are smaller than the tax) are only given to the final 4 players, a 1 in 8 chance per season which for those players is 4 days per season. The winner reaps the biggest amount and still gets less than the tax, and at a 1 in 32 chance over 4 days, the rewards just are not significant in the greater economical climate of the game.

[drdotwho]

Re: RttC re-balancing thoughts (Attn: Brad, NWGD)

Well that's my point. Selling a card is not free. There is %30tax and 20 posting fee which has to come from somewhere. If we were to be selling to the game,then yes it would be irrelevant. But that isn't the case. We are selling to other players .

I'm afraid that we will never be able to figure out to what percentage does each credit is come from -- free credit from CD, or somewhere, someone who use real money to purchase credits, and spend that credit on an item that you list, and bid it, for example.

The relatively selfish way to make peace with this situation, is to just focus on yourself and ignore the thought on "where are these credits come from". I can tell you that up to 3, 4 weeks ago I played almost 30K games and I got less than 1000 credits, never spend any credits or real money on the game. Until I read the post in OS I realize that instead of trained away my below Leg cards for my Leg, I could have sell those cards to make credits and to get what I need/want. I think I did OK to sell cards in AH (before the end of the most recently RC), and I was able to find some folks here to get some star cards for pro, get myself a better lineup, hoping for a better rewards.

Long story short, I saved those credits from daily bonus (maybe 90% of my credits) and season (10% or less of my credits) so that I could afford the 20 credits of listing. It really was a "hit or miss" thing if you are low on credit, but if you do sell 1 card (e.g. UR or Epic) then your reward is probably 10X or more of what you paid (20 credits) for listing a card in AH. Is it worth it? I think that depends on how you value your time, because free players are trading time with credits, in reality (getting a good card, train it, sell it, and get those tiny amount of free credits).

But the cost for me, as an individual, isn't anything monetary but time. The good thing is your entree fee to make more credits is a virtual currency, and it can be free. The bad thing is that even if you are a successful businessman in the game and make tons of credits -- they are not real money. If we want to talk about saving and making money, stock market is the better place to be (and to do).

Every cloud has a silver lining, let's just hope that the next game will be even more free player friendly (I was one of those guys who have never had a 3X star rewards in Star season, but played more games compare to a lot of other folks.)