Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

**Da_Czar** · 10-16-2009, 05:05 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Originally posted by dave374

Next game, I played Memphis. I didn't play quite as well.

Memphis (CPU) 118 Toronto (Dave) 98

I lost in the 1st quarter. The CPU jumped out to a 37-17 1st quarter lead. I was dead from that point on. Just too much of a deficit to overcome, even against stinky Memphis.

Big observations about all-star default:
A) the cpu shooter make way too many circus shots they shouldn't make - superstars, yes. Scrubs, no.
B) CPU rarely, if ever, makes a mistake ... but humans do. That's very difficult to overcome, even if you're using the better team.
C) You have to be absolutely insane about defence every play ... you can never, ever slack off. While that may be realistic (I think), it's tough when you're just playing a videogame. Videogames are supposed to be a form of relaxation. You relax at this game, it hands your arse to you.
In that Memphis game, I didn't take them as seriously as I should have to start ... and paid the price.
D) The CPU will get at least five runs during a game vs. your one or, if you're lucky, two. Going on a run against the CPU more than twice is literally impossible at this level. I can't remember it ever happening. The CPU, like I said, plays nearly perfectly ... but it's hard to do the same as a human.

I will be very interested to see what you think after watching my game if you have the time to do so. It will be cool seeing how you guys interperet what you see.

**Pappy Knuckles** · 10-16-2009, 05:08 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Aight. Gonna play my game right now....

**Stiles** · 10-16-2009, 05:11 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

This is a good idea and i will get down with it, although it was user vs user Online games that felt scripted to me. I had a lot of games were a was killin someone then all of a sudden I couldn't make easy shots and the other guy starts making wild shots. When the game gets within 2-8 points is about the time where i can start scoring again.I have had games too were i thought I was just about out of it then I can't miss and my cpu players are stealing every pass and getting every rebound next thing I know I'm winning. It don't feel right sometimes.

Sorry if this is jibber jabber.

**nccomicfan** · 10-16-2009, 05:15 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

what I hope I don't see is a bunch " see you guys are wrong, it's not scripted...use basketball solutions, learn to play better and other insulting comments"

**jvalverde88** · 10-16-2009, 05:30 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Whole Game
Denver:San Antonio
FGs made/attempted- 57/114: 54/115
FT made/attempted- 2/6:24/27
Blocks-16:4
Steals- 3:8
Turnovers-19:13
Final Score- 132 to 134

1st QT
Den / SA
31 Points 27
53.6 FG%32.1
40 3pt% 0
5 TO 3

2nd QT
26 Points 24
52.4 FG% 41.4
37.5 3pt% 0
7 TO 3

3rd QT
33 Points 31
53.6 FG% 56.5
25 3pt% 66.7
3 TO 5

4th QT
30 Points 38
40.6 FG% 61.9
25 3pt% 0
2 TO 1

OT
12 Points 14
45.5 FG% 50
33.3 3pt% 0
2 TO 1

Denver
Billups- 41 PTS
Anthony- 36 PTS
Smith- 30 PTS
Anderson- 8 PTS
Nene- 6 PTS
Allen- 5 PTS
Martin- 4 PTS
Afflalo- 2 PTS

San Antonio
Parker- 30 Points
Manu- 28 PTS
Duncan- 24 PTS
Jefferson- 20 PTS
McDyess- 18 PTS
Bonner- 8 PTS
Mason- 6 PTS

My brother was playing this game, as you can see he was dominating the 1st 3 quarters of the game. He started getting over confident in the 3rd quarter and started taking stupid shots. The Spurs had a 10-2 run in the beginning of the 4th that led to a big run.

23 · 10-16-2009, 05:32 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Originally posted by Da_Czar

I will be very interested to see what you think after watching my game if you have the time to do so. It will be cool seeing how you guys interperet what you see.

Come on with the video.. we want video...lol

Will definitely be an interesting discussion though..

What are we ultimately getting at here though... If we view the game differently or if its just scripted at certain points?

**ILLSmak** · 10-16-2009, 05:52 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Number one: People who are under the impression that someone would lie to themselves in order to protect the image of a game in their mind... are crazy. I mean, maybe a child would do something like that, but a grown man???

Secondly: We've already spoken of this. It's computer assistance. It's not scripted. Scripted would mean that if you ran to the same spot and shot it it would go in for awhile then stop going in... the same every game. Didn't you guys used to play video games, don't you remember 'computer assistance'? It used to be a toggle-able option. It's been in every basketball game, as far as I'm concerned, both offline and on. And yes, the better teams always get breaks... ball rolls, contested shot makes, second chances... that might not be 'fair' but it's how the game makes up for intangibles.

Lastly... are you guys really being sore losers to the computer? lol, it's like the people who come up with the idea that Superstar makes crazy shots. It's like well, that's the hardest difficulty... some of us need that challenge because we outsmart the AI. No bball AI can truly think for itself, so it has to be able to pull itself out of holes and give us, the user, more of a challenge. That is why it's the hardest difficulty. I dunno what else to say.

-Smak

**jsquigg** · 10-16-2009, 06:19 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Alright, first I'll lay down some numbers and then give my impressions:

Den(me)/SA

Score: 105/92

FG%: 54.9/42.5

FG: 45-82/37-84

3PT%: 36.8/20

3PT: 7-19/2-10

FT%: 57.1/80

FT: 8-14/16-20

REB: 44/36

AST: 20/22

BLK: 4/5

STL: 3/4

TO: 14/8

OFF REB: 6/7

FST BRK PTS: 9/4

SEC CHNCE PTS: 8/10

Leaders:

Points- Anthony 32 (Den), Ginobli 21 (SA)
Reb- Nene 12 (Den), Duncan 11 (SA)
Ast- Billups 6 (Den), Duncan/Parker 8 (SA)

Impressions: Had a great game for the most part. My offensive strategy was to run the offense through Melo with some sets but get others involved. Billups had a phenomenal shooting day, so did Melo. Defensively I decided to double down on Duncan in the paint as soon as he touched it. I also gapped Parker to make him shoot jumpers. I executed the strategy to perfection and the Spurs spent most of the night in discomfort.
The runs were back and forth but I was able to get out on the break a little bit. Only one play really bugged me. In the fourth the Spurs came out like gang busters at both ends and on one play Duncan caught the ball with a foot partially out of bounds when it wasn't called and then morphed through Kenyon for a powerful dunk. That was really the only play that bugged me and it was a balanced game.
I made some key plays at the end to put it out of reach, but the Spurs were seemingly never out of reach. I used timeouts responsibly and it really helps. The Spurs also stopped some runs using timeouts. The one thing I cannot stress enough is if you want to have success in this game you MUST take it one possession at a time. I'm not saying you have to play half court basketball, but when you have numbers you have to make the right pass and the right decision which is awesome.
Finally, the AI adapts to a ridiculous level. The Spurs response to my doubling of Duncan was to run a lot of pick and roll as well as crashing the boards. What was really cool is they still ran their offense through Duncan. I'm not seeing any scripting although they need a better rebounding engine and how about some out of bounds awareness? Overall this game is always a blast to play IMO.

**Pappy Knuckles** · 10-16-2009, 06:49 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Nuggets (Me) - 91
Spurs (CPU) - 106

Nuggets
FG - 39/88 (44%)
3PT - 4/18 (22%)
FT - 9/11 (82%)
Reb - 36
Ast - 18
Blocks - 9
Steals - 4
Turnovers -13

Spurs
FG - 46/96 (48%)
3PT - 2/8 (25%)
FT -12/14 (86%)
Reb - 43
Ast - 29
Blocks - 5
Steals - 1
Turnovers - 6

1st Quarter
Nuggets - 24
Spurs - 27

Nuggets/Spurs
--------------
FG - 40%/47%
3PT - 0%/33%
Turnovers - 5/3

Spurs started the game on a 7-0 run. I haven't used the Nuggets before so I was missing a lot of shots early while trying to figure out their releases. We ended up draining some buckets about halfway through the quarter and were able to close the lead.

2nd Quarter
Nuggets - 29
Spurs - 23

Nuggets/Spurs
--------------
FG - 52%/36%
3PT - 66%/0%
Turnovers - 0/0

We go on an 11-0 run to start the quarter. San Antonio calls a timeout. Pound the paint pretty well. San Antonio is biting on a lot of pump fakes and fouling during some of our shots. Tony Parker forces a lot of shots under the basket but none of them drop for him.

3rd Quarter
Nuggets - 19
Spurs - 26

Nuggets/Spurs
--------------
FG - 40%/52%
3PT - 33%/50%
Turnovers - 3/1

Having a tough time getting an open look. San Antonio's D has tightened up a lot. We go on a 4:00 scoring drought. Parker starts taking better shots and begins warming up. Great execution by the Spurs this quarter.

4th Quarter
Nuggets - 19
Spurs - 26

Nuggets/Spurs
--------------
FG - 45%/56%
3PT - 20%/0%
Turnovers - 5/2

San Antonio continues to play tough defense and we never really get our offense clicking. Begin turning over the ball a lot again. San Antonio gets a lot of great looks and finishes us off.

**The 24th Letter** · 10-16-2009, 06:56 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

I just beat the Nuggets 107-102

Had them down by 16 with about 6 mins left....(thanks for the zone tip, its really does help) some CONTESTED Billlups and JR 3's later, throw in a pair of birdman circus shots...they withered it down to 2...I didnt panic, I called timeouts, just played Spurs basketball and held on for the win.

doesnt change how I feel, but hey...Its all good man, I got the win.....game was fun....just 2 things..

1) I dont get snubbed on rebounds on Pro like I do on All Star when I have clear position...I had Billups grab a board from behind Duncanwhen jumping at the same time. is this going to be looked at via patch? or is this how the difficulty translates?
2) Once fouls are patched, I think thatll make a huge difference as well....espeially slowing down runs

I those are fixed, I could handle the CPU BS a little better....still a great game man...happy gaming people

**jsquigg** · 10-16-2009, 06:58 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

I don't want to be "that guy," but in order to best follow Da Czar's parameters shouldn't we be sticking to those parameters and not clogging the thread with our own experiments? Just a thought....

**The 24th Letter** · 10-16-2009, 07:13 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Um, who are you refering to though? Who here conducted their own experiment? Lol.

**bls** · 10-16-2009, 07:13 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Ok, just finished my game, Nuggets(Me) vs Spurs(Cpu) at the Spurs arena. This was on All-Star difficulty.

Score was 94-80 with me winning. Their was runs here and their but for the most part I dominated the whole game leading by as much as 22 points at one time in the 3rd. I gotta say this is the best my CPU teammates have ever played, as they were in the passing lanes along with blocking shots.

My strategy for the Spurs starting 5 was as follows.

Mcdyess-No double team and pressure set to Loose. (Wanted to bait the CPU to go to him)

Duncan-Auto double team and pressure set to Tight.

Jefferson-No double team and pressure set to Loose. (Wanted to give him the jump shot)

Ginobli-No double team and pressure set to Loose. (Wanted to give him the jump shot as well, his DNA has him driving to the basket majority of the time)

Parker-Auto double team and pressure Normal. (Lagged off of him most of the time as I wanted him to be a jump shooter as well).

Bonner-Auto double team and pressure set to Loose. (Wanted him to take more jumpshots as well, for some reason he drives sometimes as well, think his DNA is messed up).

I gotta say with the above strategy I was able to shut the Spurs completely down. When Timmy got the ball in the post I crowded him immediately and forced him to either take a tough shot or pass it back out. He finished with 14pts & 14rbs on 7/14 shooting. Not bad.
Bonner, whom everyone has been mentioning finished with 4pts & 2rbs on 1/8 shooting. I forced Parker to take plenty of bad shots (he also got some good ones, blow by's as well). He finished with 17pts & 10ast on 6/17 shooting.

Martin absolutely dominated for me as I slowed the game down and went into the post. I absolutely abused Bonner every chance I got as he was guarding Martin and Anthony. Once the doubles started to come it opened up for Anthony and Smith. Billups did his thing as well coming off picks from time to time. Beginning of the 2nd half I noticed the Spurs start to up the tempo a bit as I was up 46-39 providing pretty much a slow pace the whole first half. So I decided to change my tempo from "Balanced" to "Up tempo" as I begin to match the tempo with them when the time permitted. They went on a couple small runs here and there as I called a timeout to settle my players down at that very moment. Pretty much stopped them in there tracks. I lead from start to finish as the closes they ever got back upon me was 48-44 in the 3rd qtr. Kept the crowd pretty much out of it as well.

Fun game, I had a blast. I think All-star is the most realistic difficulty to play on as I have been playing SS all the time, and I notice the CPU does a couple of unrealistic things on SS to make the game more difficulty. Although I still like playing on SS because I like the challenge. Heres some pics of stats from the game....

**sportyguyfl31** · 10-16-2009, 07:18 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Just finished my game. This is kinda long, with highlights included, but I hope it is helpful.

No script here. This is all about using the tools this fine game gives us.

How I Play:

1) I am a DNA Nazi.
--- Ive never used the nuggets before, so the 1st thing I did was look at the DNA% of all of my players, I also study the DNA tendencies of the Spurs..and I play the %'s

2) I play 100% on ball D.
--I want full control of how I defend pick and roll, how I position and shade my defender, and my shot contests

Denver(me) vs San Antonio, default all star, 12 min qtrs, on the road

Denver(me): 99
San Antonio: 81

Denver:
FG%:50.0
3 pt shooting: 5-13(38.5%)
Free throws: 6-7(85.7%)
Rebounds: 42
Assists: 27
Blocks:9
Turnovers: 10
Offensive Rebounds: 9
Fast Break Points: 4

Spurs
FG% 45.6
3 pt shooting: 3-14 21.4%
Free Throws: 6-11, 54.5%
Rebounds: 32
Assists: 19
Blocks: 4
Steals: 1
Turnovers: 8
Offensive Rebounds: 2
Fast Break Points: 2

Break Down By Qtr

1st Qtr
Denver(me)24, 55% FG %
San Antonio 21, 52.9% FG

Notes: I had a 14-5 run right of the gate, CPU came on after taking a T.O., I buckled down and held them scoreless for a 2:05 stretch

2nd Qtr
Denver(me)26, 52.4% FG%
San Antonio, 20, 47.1% FG%

Notes: nothing stand outs

3rd Qtr
Denver(me) 25, 45.5% FG%
San Antonion: 15, 33.5%

Notes: this qtr was the turning point, and where the CPU tried to make its push.

The CPU came out HARD.

They came out pushing tempo, and Duncan was going at me strong, earning multiple trips to the line.

--I called a time out, and slowed the tempo down. I dumped the ball down to Nene and exploited the strength mismatch.

Mcdyess couldnt handle handle him 1 on 1. They brought double teams, and all kinds of space opened up.

On D, I called 2-3 zone to slow the pace down, and tried to turn Richard Jefferson, Manu, and Parker into spot up shooters. It worked

4th Qtr
Denver 24(me) 48% FG %
Spurs 25, 50% FG %

Played my bench for the whole quarter.

Individual Stats.

Denver(me)

JR Smith: 26 pts, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks, 11-20 FG%, 4-5 3pt shooting, 28 minutes

'Melo: 19 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 9-20, 1-3 3pt, 34 minutes

Aaron Afflalo: 14 pts, 2 assists, 7-12 FG (beautiful mid range stroke)

Birdman: 12 pts, 10 rebs, 1 block, 21 min

K-Mart: 10 pts, 10 reb, 4 assists, 1 block, 27 min

Mr. Big Shot: 10 pts, 5 assists, 4-12 shooting, 31 min

Spurs

Tony Parker: 17 pts, 11 assists, 7-11 FG, 1-4 3pt, 48 min

Richard Jefferson: 14pts, 6-11, 39 min

Manu: 13pts, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 6-16 Fg, 1-4 3pt, 31min

Tim Duncan: 11pts, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block 5-11 Fg, 37 min

Matt Bonner: 11pts, 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 5-14 FG, 0-3 3pt, 24min

Roger Mason: 7 pts, 3-4 FG, 1-2 3pt, 17 min

Antonio Mcdyess 6pts, 6 rebounds, 1 block, 31 minutes.

Overall Strategy:

Play the %'s and try to force Parker, Manu, and RJ into spot up jump shooters.

I would throw in some zone when they were all on the floor together, and I tried to crowd duncan with doubles. The CPU aint, dumb, it subbed Roger Mason and/or Bonner in when I did this for a few trips in a row, so then I would play man.

I made the Spurs pay for playing Bonner.

As soon as he checked into the game, Id run my offense through the high post, and exploit him on post ups, or elbow Isos. When the doubles came, Id swing for the jumpers or hit the cutters.

On O, Bonner's DNA tendency is to pull up near 70% of the time, so I bum rushed him, on every touch. His lowest % shot is the off the dribble jumper, and his "contact shots is 30". He will not score with heat on him, so I ran up on him and forced him to take this shot, if he was going to shoot at all. 2 of his points came on a goaltend.

Some highlights:

-Tony Parker is a 42% jump shooter, and 60% at the basket. So what shot would you rather him take?

Here i'm controlling Anthony Carter. I see Bonner coming to set the screen, and try to beat him to the spot. Im able to fight through the screen and cut off the drive.

I then GIVE GROUND..once I see tony parker retreating, and force him into a low % contested, off the dribble, fall away jumper.

**pdawg17** · 10-16-2009, 07:38 PM

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Sportyguy: Nice writeup...loved the vids...

Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

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