Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Don't see how the stance couldn't change. There is ample evidence that the games aren't scripted. The results almost couldn't be more different. I even saw Tim Duncan pass after an offensive rebound, which he's supposed to "never" do.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Well, what evidence? the people who didnt feel that way in the first place posted their stats...cool....Its not like they were going to veiw anything any different after doing so on way or the other...I think the whole "scripted" title kindve skewed what people were experiencing in itself

anyone who gave any notion that they felt the same were met w\ the premise they werent playing correctly...like I said, circles...Ive moved on from the subject personally...im just ballin man lol

[fluent2332]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

^ wasn't that the point of this thread, to give evidence and come to a conclusion one way or the other? It's mounting evidence that shows the game isn't scripted. it's only going in circles if you decide to not look at the evidence, which makes the whole thread completely pointless in the first place.

anyway, after playing extensively, I'll also concur that the game is not scripted. I've blown teams out without them ever mounting a single run. I've also been able to run and gun teams ALL GAME right out of the building. right when it looks like they are mounting a run, i blast them even worse. what happened to the script during these games?

on defense i control the player I last used on offense. I never switch. I control them as they would play in real life, i.e. no crashing boards with bad rebounders, or playing passing lanes with brian scalabrine, etc etc. I adjust everything from pressure, double teams, matchups, offensive style, rebounding, etc etc. I call double teams appropriately but not too often. I very rarely switch to zone, why? for some reason the new thing to think is whenever the cpu goes on a run, switch to zone. sometimes it works but more often then not i start giving up new ways to score. so i just stick to man to man mainly. sometimes i'll switch to full court man to man when a team is rolling. this helps to slow them down.

it's funny to see users online switching to zone too when they have trouble guarding me. it's like that's the new first instinct, to switch to zone. usually when i start busting up the zone even worse, they switch back. at that point they don't know what to do. stick to man people. for the most part man to man is going to give you the best chance at winning

on offense i find I have to stick to my gameplan. if you're using an uptempo team it makes no sense to slow the game down and try to methodically beat the team, you will do worse that way. keep attacking and stick to your gameplan. go to your go to guys. i use the warriors a lot and i continue to bust 3s in transition and take the first open shot. most of the time i will beat a run and quiet the crowd. i run offball screens for shooters and take open mid range j's. it's funny because not only can you beat a computer run, you can do it while still playing uptempo and attacking. this feels like a user skill issue, not a gameplay issue.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Like I said, your right or people are playing wrong....lol. Yall flipped the experiment in to a win/lose issue. Im not going to try to out type you...i just cant lol. So it is what it is. You guys came to a conclusion.

[LAKE4742]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

^ wasn't that the point of this thread, to give evidence and come to a conclusion one way or the other? It's mounting evidence that shows the game isn't scripted. it's only going in circles if you decide to not look at the evidence, which makes the whole thread completely pointless in the first place.

[Chairman7w]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Czar, technically, this is YOUR thread, so I'd like to hear what conclusions you've come to after reviewing these games.

What do you think?

[jsquigg]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Like I said, your right or people are playing wrong....lol. Yall flipped the experiment in to a win/lose issue. Im not going to try to out type you...i just cant lol. So it is what it is. You guys came to a conclusion.

It's hard not to see otherwise based on the body of work, especially since the few who claim scripted game play haven't provided any evidence supporting their claims.

[Chairman7w]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

I think in order to do that, first we need to DEFINE exactly what they mean by scripted.

By scripted, do you mean:

- the score is already set before the game? And that no matter what you do, it will play out a certain way?

- or do you mean that who ever is behind will always have "assistance" in the 4th quater to come back?

And if that's the case, then that's gonna be awfully hard to prove, since once ONE person comes back and takes the lead, the OTHER team will then be scripted to take the lead, and then the OTHER team will be scripted, etc. etc. etc...

Do you kinda see where we're going with this?

Please tell us exactly what you mean by scripted.

For the record, I don't think it's scripted at all. I've seen ALL kinds of games.

[jtdribbles25]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Dont see how this "puts it to bed", but I do agree its going in circles at this point...well, not really in circles...people who had the opinions have just moved on..lol I dont think anyones stance has changed since the experience began...

come on man, this is a discussion board. you bring up tons of topics and opinions. instead of trying to out type someone, provide a clearer understanding or evidence of what you are saying. don't cop out now. Some of your views that I have not agreed with have at least provoked thought and insight.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

come on man, this is a discussion board. you bring up tons of topics and opinions. instead of trying to out type someone, provide a clearer understanding or evidence of what you are saying. don't cop out now. Some of your views that I have not agreed with have at least provoked thought and insight.

What? if this was in reference to my earlier comment, it went over your head...

but your right, I never really stated my position..


Well first off let me say....
If by "scripted" you mean that the game predetermines who is going to win, or how its going to go...I disagree. Like you guys pointed out...all these games posted pretty much shoot down that idea....
Its not even the runs...IMO, thats part of the games appeal

MY problem, is when players play out of character, make out of character plays and SUCCEED, and MY take on it, is its done to keep the %'s on point..whatever you want to call that, thats how I I feel. Its like theyll do whatevers necessary, no matter what player. Thing is, this might not even be relative to this thread now that I think about it, could be an entire other subject on its own..

Its definitely not a win or lose thing...(even though Dalembert hitting fadeaways to top off a run be frustating)
Im HANDLING the CPU at this point alot of the time...I know how to manage my defensive matchups very well at this point.

http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/11905316

http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/11705851

Just this stuff...some will say "this rarely happens" or "things like this happen IRL"

But thats where I disagree...I feel I could capture something like this 4-5 times every game...once again, see the scores...its not about winning. I even think at this point my DNA just might be messed up...

Thats bascially my position. Dont get me wrong, im KILLING this game..lol..this is just my beef with the AI..

[Chairman7w]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

I DO understand those concerns 24, I'm with you all the way on that. (Again, probably not the right thread for that) As a matter of fact, BIGS that play out of character would probably be my number one gripe with this game.

I can see Howard snatching a rebound and ripping it back through with both hands, hanging on the rim while his knees jerk up by his head... but Spencer Hawes? Chris Kaman? Come on.

Bonner or Oden doing a up and under reverse? Please.

That's a solid point there. It doesn't seem so hard to just make it so they catch the rebound, and lay it back in....

[jtdribbles25]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

What? if this was in reference to my earlier comment, it went over your head...

but your right, I never really stated my position..


Well first off let me say....
If by "scripted" you mean that the game predetermines who is going to win, or how its going to go...I disagree. Like you guys pointed out...all these games posted pretty much shoot down that idea....
Its not even the runs...IMO, thats part of the games appeal

MY problem, is when players play out of character, make out of character plays and SUCCEED, and MY take on it, is its done to keep the %'s on point..whatever you want to call that, thats how I I feel. Its like theyll do whatevers necessary, no matter what player. Thing is, this might not even be relative to this thread now that I think about it, could be an entire other subject on its own..

Its definitely not a win or lose thing...(even though Dalembert hitting fadeaways to top off a run be frustating)
Im HANDLING the CPU at this point alot of the time...I know how to manage my defensive matchups very well at this point.

http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/11905316

http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/11705851

Just this stuff...some will say "this rarely happens" or "things like this happen IRL"

But thats where I disagree...I feel I could capture something like this 4-5 times every game...once again, see the scores...its not about winning. I even think at this point my DNA just might be messed up...

Thats bascially my position. Dont get me wrong, im KILLING this game..lol..this is just my beef with the AI..

just so were clear, im not trying to come off as a jack a@@ toward you at all. I actually agree with many things you've mentioned. Your comment didn't go over my head whatsoever, it's more a contextual reference. I like how you have been more succinct in your issues. The videos bring excellent evidence. I have had Bonner do that to me on more than a few occassions and cringe every time.

There are some players who have the derek fisher dna, ie.... there dna is structured so that they take any open opportunity to shoot no matter how it happens. The true to life numbers say the same thing, but the ai has no respect for the context in which they do these things. lol.

Everything is relative and all of our experiences tend to vary. Thats what makes all of our input of value.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

Yeah, its all good man, no problem, my bad if im coming off combative as well, ......I think I might just be reading the situation wrong at this point you know?....

Maybe its not a "the CPU is using these players in that way to keep it competitive" but rather "the CPU isnt using the DNA correctly"

Or maybe im giving DNA too much credit. As sophisticated as it is...I would think telling AL Jefferson NOT to dribble down court and throw up that shot, (much less MAKE it) wouldnt be hard. And THATS why ive come to the conclusion I have you know?

[Chairman7w]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

LOL!! Wouldn't it be funny if there was some big scandal revealed, and that there IS no real DNA in the game whatsoever, that's it's just numbers on the screen but has no affect on the game play at all??? LOL!!!

That the engine from Live 99 hasn't changed a single bit??

PPfpffffftttttttttttt.....

[fjccommish]

Re: Czar's game feels scripted group experiment

My expectation of DNA was that it would make players play more to real life. It would make superstars play like superstars, take over games, become the go to guys in key situations that would have users scratching their heads saying "how can I stop that guy?"

It isn't the case. Guys like LeBron and Kobe, even in replay games when they put up big numbers like 50+ points, don't play aggressively. In 10 replays of a LeBron game where he scored 41, he took an average of 18 shots and scored 20 against me only once. He didn't get the ball a lot, he didn't take over in the 4th quarter of a close game.

Maybe it's because a team element for DNA is missing. I'm very disappointed.