Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

[Benicio10]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

"Fix" is so relative. As long as the gamer has options it shouldn't be a concern.

These games have to appeal to a large user base. It shouldn't matter how they do that, they just need to do that.

they market their game as sim though ... i think 2K stated they make "the most realistic basketball game on the market" or something of that nature ...

MLB The Show markets their game as realistic, and they strive for default sim settings. the game isn't a HR fest out of the box ... people play 162 game seasons with default settings...

If 2K or Live are coming out saying they're making a game that appeals to the casual players first, sim players 2nd ... then come out and tell us that ... don't hide behind the sim name

[Pared]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Problem with this game though is the customization options are either lacking, dont work, or arent worth it.

For real man its getting real old

Agreed.

[HOLLIDAY1183]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Pared is in here spitting some MUCH NEEDED TRUTH & SENSE. I respect everyone's opinion and honest reaction, but there is WAY MORE that we DON'T know, than we do know. Like the SPECIFICS on why Mike left. Okay, "direction," & "vision" but, what specifically was the boiling point for Mike; what was it that happened that made him turn? We know NONE of this.

Also, I understand we're the ones most passionate about these games, but let's be realistic. Whoever thought EA would weigh in, or respond at all, to Wang, and on these boards, is being very unrealistic. It's great that CV has pretty much kept wood in the fire, EA needs it. A coupla guys from EA I saw earlier in the thread, even responded to him briefly.

But consider this: the vast majority of the sports gaming market DON'T KNOW WHO WANG IS, don't even know what OS is.

Bottom line- we have VERY LITTLE info into the real truth of this situation, much less it's eventual fallout. Keep in mind, Wang has a ton of credit with all of us, but also consider that 2K signs his checks now. That might not have had MUCH impact as to what was said, but you think it had any? Just a little... ? And wasn't this the guy saying that 2K's "tech was limited" just over a year ago?

Can we at least try to give this some time, wait till info starts leaking on both games? See some media, feature lists.
My initial reaction was "Well if he's saying "direction" than it must mean that Live doesn't want to be SIM".... but now as I give it more thought, really guys that coulda been just one of several or MANY factors leading to his departure.

I'm just really, really interested in seeing the early media of both games in a few months. Because I've said since right after Live dropped when they were releasing "Holiday Sneaker Packs": it's about priorities with EA, I really believe that. And this is where Wang's comment about EA's processes being "inefficient" rings true. Why in the F are you spending ANY time creating colorways for Lebrons or Kobes, when players are running out of bounds on the break? WTF are you so concerned and diligent about getting EVERY SINGLE throwback in there, when I am seeing players shooting routine layups off the top of the glass, or the same exact eurostep Manu does, being done by Haywood down low? PRIORITIES.

From my personal experience, Live 10 was the first playable one this gen, coincidentally Wang was the lead for it. Now that he's gone, Live is NOT getting my $60 unless 100% of the pre-release media looks solid and the demo is damn near perfect. I don't trust them at all.

[23]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Look man, it doesnt matter why the guy left. Thats all between him and EA

Im sure the way the news came out was something EA wanted to keep to a calm because of the line they're skating on right now but, an employee departure is really nunya. There is a book that tells you in a corporation if you dont like where the boat is going, get off and get on another boat. Its as simple as that.

I honestly dont think Live will go straight arcade next year and I dont know what to expect, but we need to wait and see. Sadly im not as hopeful but we will see.

[michaeljordanjr]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Look man, it doesnt matter why the guy left. Thats all between him and EA

Im sure the way the news came out was something EA wanted to keep to a calm because of the line they're skating on right now but, an employee departure is really nunya. There is a book that tells you in a corporation if you dont like where the boat is going, get off and get on another boat. Its as simple as that.

I honestly dont think Live will go straight arcade next year and I dont know what to expect, but we need to wait and see. Sadly im not as hopeful but we will see.

The only saving grace this franchise can have is a technological explosion of ridiculous visuals.

I'm talking about unparalleled realism visually. That's their only hope to reclaim a % of the NBA market.

[Haval93]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

It's honestly funny seeing an entire board of people going crazy about whether or not Live will be heading simulation or arcade route. Yaw and the rest of the NBA Live team have assured us more than once that they will continue to go the simulation route. Why would they quit the direction they have been striving for since Live 08. With all the improvements in the series and resources they have been working on since then, you really think they would simply drop everything and say lets just make a NBA Jam port for the 360/PS3 and be done with? Now some say without Mike they have nobody there, but rest assure they still have tons of talent on the team such as Jeff Antwi, Matt Lafreniere, Novell Thomas, Ryan Santos, Garreth Reeder, and Sean O'Brien. That's a pretty stacked team and each of them have very great traits that they bring to the table. So lets give the NBA Live team the benefit of doubt that they can produce a solid basketball simulation, instead of saying that NBA Live 11 will suck because they don't have Mike.

My .02 Cents...

[23]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

If the graphics remain as they are then that wont happen.

Still... thats not what people liked most about this game.

[michaeljordanjr]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Here's the thing... everything that was heralded in Live as a wonderful addition this year was already in 2k's game. The year that a 2k developer has say, Live's game gets what 2k already had, in a different manner.

Pardon....Pared?

Freestyle passing was in 2K? What version?
Size up mechanic was in 2K? What version?
Freestyle quick strike was in 2K? What version?
Manual box out was in 2K? What version?
Tip in shot rebounds were in 2K? What version?
real Weight/Momentum physics were in 2K? What version?

Need credit where credit is due...

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Freestyle passing was in 2K? What version? None. Innovative creation by EA

Size up mechanic was in 2K? What version? I dont know what a "size up mechanic" is...But you have been able to size up, jab, explode in various ways for a LONG time now in 2k's games.

Freestyle quick strike was in 2K? What version? I mean, thats their dribbling system..."quickstrike" has been there since Live 06..still a great system IMO.

Manual box out was in 2K? What version? "LT" since 2k7

Tip in shot rebounds were in 2K? What version? since 2k7, plus tip dunks

real Weight/Momentum physics were in 2K? What version? Psh. Im still trying to find this in Live 10.

I see you left out "hustle plays" out as well, lol..

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

After my initial "Dang EA is crazy, it sounds like they are going back to arcade..BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" reaction, I'm taking a more of a wait and see approach now.


As I recall, NBA Live 09 did a lot of things right, and in some cases had signature animations that were taken out of this years game.

DNA, DNA hot zones, post move shimmies, signature fadeaways, were all in NBA Live 09...before Mike Wang got there....so there is "hope".

I'm gonna hold my breath and simply just wait to see what NBA Live '11 looks like, before I judge their decision.

[edubbs]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

As I recall, NBA Live 09 did a lot of things right, and in some cases had signature animations that were taken out of this years game.

Horrible decision to take away signature moves and animations that were in Live09. It's one of reasons that Live10 'feels' like a generic basketball game IMO.

Not to mention all of the signature freethrow routines from Live06 and 07 that were removed and have yet to return.

There just isn't enough difference from player to player in regards to playstyles, and behaviors in this franchise.

Atleast, the signature post moves, signature free throw routines and other signature animations from previous versions helped a little.

Overall though, the game really lacks in this area and has done so for several years now.

Every year it's like this series is starting all over again, for some reason.

And the result every year is a product that 'feels' like a 1st year effort, instead of a project that has been consistently molded for about 6 years on the nextgen consoles.

[Pared]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Freestyle passing was in 2K? What version? None. Innovative creation by EA

Size up mechanic was in 2K? What version? I dont know what a "size up mechanic" is...But you have been able to size up, jab, explode in various ways for a LONG time now in 2k's games.

Freestyle quick strike was in 2K? What version? I mean, thats their dribbling system..."quickstrike" has been there since Live 06..still a great system IMO.

Manual box out was in 2K? What version? "LT" since 2k7

Tip in shot rebounds were in 2K? What version? since 2k7, plus tip dunks

real Weight/Momentum physics were in 2K? What version? Psh. Im still trying to find this in Live 10.

I see you left out "hustle plays" out as well, lol..

lol "get 'em"

Answered it all for me.

[michaeljordanjr]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Answers in bold.

Freestyle passing was in 2K? What version? None.Innovative creation by EA

Size up mechanic was in 2K? What version? I dont know what a "size up mechanic" is...But you have been able to size up, jab, explode in various ways for a LONG time now in 2k's games.

If you don't know about a game why are you posting here?

Freestyle quick strike was in 2K? What version? I mean, thats their dribbling system..."quickstrike" has been there since Live 06..still a great system IMO.

No. Live 10 introduced chaining dribbles and moves off of size ups and branching out of animations which in other NBA Games would have to play out before you could move. It has created personalization in control never before seen. My goodness why are people not recognizing this more?

Manual box out was in 2K? What version? "LT" since 2k7 No, in 2K you have NEVER been able to strategically get in front of a guy ahead of time and stop him with a real box out no matter the area of the court hes in. Live 10 introduced real box outs no matter your position on the court, the guy you got in front of was boxed in. 2K has a box out system no where near the caliber of live's. I have videos to prove my point, I couldnt find one to prove it on 2K's side.

Tip in shot rebounds were in 2K? What version? since 2k7, plus tip dunks This isn't an amazing feature, but I was talking about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ye-0_nbmas

:24 seconds in

real Weight/Momentum physics were in 2K? What version? Psh. Im still trying to find this in Live 10.

Do you even own Live 10? http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/13966310

I see you left out "hustle plays" out as well, lol.. Those are not as advertised, I was dissapointed in this "gimmick" hence it was not worth to mention.

Anything else?

[Pared]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

You're wrong. All of that has been in 2k for quite a while. If you're that interested, go research on the game and the series.

We're not going to keep on going back and forth this way though since you're more interested in an argument than a discussion.

[Court_vision]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

2K has definitely had all those things...good post 24.

Not only has it had them, but it's tuned them up / perfected them over several seasons.

That's the frustrating thing with NBA Live...not only are half those things still missing, but they are going to take a long time (if ever) to bring them in succesfully.

There's a million things I could list...but, just to keep it short, look at rebounding. Five years in on the next gen systems and Live's rebounding is still terrible. There's basically no contest / the ball still floats randomly / small guards can magically grab the ball over 7 footers / boxing out rarely works / CPU players jump away from the ball and even out of bounds whilst the ball is in the air / there's not even something as simple as a kick out to re-set the offense. It's terrible.

The problem for NBA Live is that it's similiarly terrible in about 60% of the key areas. Fixing those things is going to take a long, long time.