NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

Your post explains it in itself.....when your taking all those things you mentioned into consideration, its not much of a "dice roll"....honestly I dont think even all those factors above went into the jumpers from Live 10...I think thats what Czar means...

[thomonkey]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

it's still a dice roll in 2k. 2 days ago i bricked a wide open corner three with kobe and then hit a shot two feet behind the three point line while being double teamed, and let me tell you, my timing was perfect on the corner three.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

umm, of course it'a a calculation. It's pretty obvious and also video game programming 101. Every game does it that way.

it doesn't affect anything in terms of basketball....get high percentage shots for good shooters on the spot they're comfortable. That's pretty realistic.

I understand...but I just didn't want to know it's true.

[Teebone21]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

it's still a dice roll in 2k. 2 days ago i bricked a wide open corner three with kobe and then hit a shot two feet behind the three point line while being double teamed, and let me tell you, my timing was perfect on the corner three.

never expect 3pointers to go in all the time with average 3pt shooters like kobe.80-75 = average IMO

[stizz]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

Just wondering, for those of you that are shocked that the game calculated whether the shot when in or not using a formula, how did you think it determined the shot success?

[thomonkey]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

never expect 3pointers to go in all the time with average 3pt shooters like kobe.80-75 = average IMO

just wanted to mention that it's a dice roll, and your reply confirmed it. the shot going in or not is determined by his 3 point rating and that is all. dice roll.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

reanimator, the bank shot shooting animation looks awkward. I feel like thats due to the shooting system. The shot is long when the player releases the ball later which is unrealistic, in actuality when you are coming down you lose power. Those bankshots look very unrealistic. What I am getting at is that in order to pull of a bank shot one should not have to release the ball later. It just doesnt make sense.

Also the game needs a whole lot of new animations, that goes for the net, dunks, layups, fadeaways. I know its a work in progress so we will see.

I agree with you on the shot power thing. We've had this discussion amongst the dev team about the power meter.

Basically, an early release in real life should result in a lower powered shot. A late release in real life should result in a lower powered shot.

However, people who play video games are trained to think of a power meter as just that. The longer you charge the power, the more power you'll get.

Unfortunately these two ideas conflict.

We've focus tested the two and for now the power meter remains as it is in the video. If you feel strongly about it one way or the other, voice your opinions, post a poll, make it known how you feel.

The game isn't done yet so it is possible to have an influence.

I cannot promise anything will change, but if you feel strongly about it you should make that known.

We are listening.

Hopefully strong consideration is taken to change the existing shot mechanics to reflect real world physics:

1. High Power early release, and Low power late release.- Vast
2. Example to consider: Full Court Shots.
3. should an early release result in a short or long shot?
( http://www.operationsports.com/forum...67-post23.html )


I would like to address the "conflict" mentioned above by rEAnimator.

There are a couple ways to look at 'powered meter' and the 'trained gamer' with respect to what NBA Elite will bring to the table.

Real Time Physics (RTP) is new to the series as is independent upper and lower body control mechanics. They will be new to gamers including trained veterans. EA is bringing something new to basketball gaming with "real time physics."

Current 'high powered late release' shot mechanic has an unrealistic old approach design. It may or may not work nicely in the world of canned animations, but it certainly would stray from real world physics and real time physics if ball trajectory upon release is in fact dictated by physics.

Rather than modifying real world physics to fit the trained gamer, and continuing to support the real-life versus video-game "conflict," and decrease simulation mechanics, let's change it up. Let's actually bring full fledged authentic simulation to EA Elite.

Unless team EA Elite is introducing a modified physics system, the existing shot release animation mechanic should be reconsidered to truly simulate realism.

[Sarsky]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

I know im new here but the way i see it is both the old way and the new Elite way of shooting have there problems. Basketball is a game of skill and chance. So you have the old way being chance and the new way being skill. Theres no medium. If you want an example look at Ron Artest. As a Laker fan I was up and down on the guy. I mean he misses WIDE open 3's like its his job. But he also can get hot and rain them down from the heavens. How will Elite take that into account. In the end I want to miss wide open shots and I want to make them while double covered and fading away from half court lol. In the end even the greatest nba shooters couldnt hit every shot with no one on them. In this game I think they could. (i could be way off because i have never played it but its my guess) I mean you put ray allen for a wide open 3 it should be easy. but how easy? We all watched him in the finals destroy one game and then couldnt hit ****. I guess the point is he slumped but pierce lit it up. When we have a bad day on the sticks it will make ALL our shooters suck lol. Maybe im off base but i think even if you do everything right sometimes the shot doesnt go in... and anyone that plays basketball knows that. Its the same for every sport. Sometimes you release and it feels perfect and it isn't.

[King Gro23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

Elites control scheme is dope. I like it, but honestly the flashy jerk movement and like momentum defying layups and dunks that just push everything out of the way or slide them is itching, although its early. nice vid.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

How is it more complex? It basically works the same way. Takes the attributes, motion, defenders etc. into consideration

A dice roll is a dice roll

I don't want to derail this thread. I have been into the heuristics in both game the last few years. I always felt 2k's was better. This year that may change.

I will just say the each implementation can differ not only in the number of factors considered but also the weights assigned to each part of the calculation including the roll itself.

One brief example of different implementations would be the 3 point glitch in live 10 online where guys would hit an abnormal amount of 3's with a particular player. One would think the dice roll would make that less probable.

if one game only had 2-3 factors and was based on a set % I think its clear to see that the dice roll could play a significant part in that. Another game could have 3-4 times as many factors so again a blanket statement MAY not cover both games...

Also one games base % was based on DNA and the other on ratings. But I guess the key is the weighting system and how many factors are included. In my opinion with live 10 and DNA there was much more luck involved than in the competition. So I can understand their point of making that emphasis this year. I was only saying hey that may not directly translate to the competition with the exception being yes if you do everything right you can still miss in 2k, Some think that's realistic others think it's not.

What's cool is that this year we will get to sample some of both and see which one we like better. My hunch is that there will be a middle ground that will be a much better implementation than either game will have this year. I would look to see that implemented in 2012.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

Your post explains it in itself.....when your taking all those things you mentioned into consideration, its not much of a "dice roll"....honestly I dont think even all those factors above went into the jumpers from Live 10...I think thats what Czar means...

Yes Sir ! or much less of one anyway...

[thomonkey]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

I don't want to derail this thread. I have been into the heuristics in both game the last few years. I always felt 2k's was better. This year that may change.

I will just say the each implementation can differ not only in the number of factors considered but also the weights assigned to each part of the calculation including the roll itself.

One brief example of different implementations would be the 3 point glitch in live 10 online where guys would hit an abnormal amount of 3's with a particular player. One would think the dice roll would make that less probable.

if one game only had 2-3 factors and was based on a set % I think its clear to see that the dice roll could play a significant part in that. Another game could have 3-4 times as many factors so again a blanket statement MAY not cover both games...

Also one games base % was based on DNA and the other on ratings. But I guess the key is the weighting system and how many factors are included. In my opinion with live 10 and DNA there was much more luck involved than in the competition. So I can understand their point of making that emphasis this year. I was only saying hey that may not directly translate to the competition with the exception being yes if you do everything right you can still miss in 2k, Some think that's realistic others think it's not.

What's cool is that this year we will get to sample some of both and see which one we like better. My hunch is that there will be a middle ground that will be a much better implementation than either game will have this year. I would look to see that implemented in 2012.

i think that id rather have the two games be unique. 2k is more of a coaching game than a video game. you execute and put your guys in the best situation you can and the computer pretty much decides if you win or not based on percentages. the way you win in 2k is by executing and game planning. that is more of a coaches job than anything. i actually like this and i bought 2k and live last year, but threw away live because of the 3 point glitch. However, i think that elite's way of playing and making it an actual VIDEO GAME where stick skills matter will be a good alternate choice. i think that having a middle ground will really just make both games the same thing, and what is the point of that? in the end i prefer sports games where you actually control the player (like fifa, fight night) and (i hate to say this) create your own amazing moments. in 2k, so many times i hit a buzzer beater with kobe to win the game and i'm jumping and cheering but i know that it could just have easily went out because of the percentages. coaches play percentages, players play. what do you want to do?

[ajknows]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

I don't want to derail this thread. I have been into the heuristics in both game the last few years. I always felt 2k's was better. This year that may change.

I will just say the each implementation can differ not only in the number of factors considered but also the weights assigned to each part of the calculation including the roll itself.

One brief example of different implementations would be the 3 point glitch in live 10 online where guys would hit an abnormal amount of 3's with a particular player. One would think the dice roll would make that less probable.

if one game only had 2-3 factors and was based on a set % I think its clear to see that the dice roll could play a significant part in that. Another game could have 3-4 times as many factors so again a blanket statement MAY not cover both games...

Also one games base % was based on DNA and the other on ratings. But I guess the key is the weighting system and how many factors are included. In my opinion with live 10 and DNA there was much more luck involved than in the competition. So I can understand their point of making that emphasis this year. I was only saying hey that may not directly translate to the competition with the exception being yes if you do everything right you can still miss in 2k, Some think that's realistic others think it's not.

What's cool is that this year we will get to sample some of both and see which one we like better. My hunch is that there will be a middle ground that will be a much better implementation than either game will have this year. I would look to see that implemented in 2012.

Your right getting a balance is the key, but I think elite is on the right track by giving you the players skill set and saying see what you can do with it. As opposed to a roll of the dice that I think is in both games.

I don't think either game has been as close to sim as some would have you believe. I hope this year is the start of a new era of bball... one thats truly next gen. Because as much as I love playing sports games they have all become very stale because of predetermind outcomes.

[tybud]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Shooting Fundamentals Developer Diary

The probability is completely removed from shooting. Ratings, defensive pressure, etc. all affect the size of the sweet spot. After that, it's all up to the shooter to stay within the sweet spot and time the release properly.

Basically the game calculates how difficult the shot will be then it's up to the shooter to make or miss. All games before that took ratings, defensive pressure and shot timing into effect then calculated the probability of a successful shot.

i dont think we should worry at all as long as the physics play out like they should, remember the average player only shoots 45% from the field so if your playing good D and keeping the shooter some what off their sweet spots than everything should play out nicely. the game is going to call for some serious defensive preasure, its a great thing as long as the defender is givin the tools to defend properly. im not sure but i hope the sweet spot are based on all facets of the game like a shooter having to be set and on balance and all the other things that come with being a shooter. another thing i would like to know, is players sweet spot going to be based on if a player is a set shooter or a player that comes off picks ect, ect. you have players that can hit set shoots all night long but cant throw a pea in the ocean from the same exact spot. it shouldnt be just based on the release of the shot.

[dlewis16]

wow this game is going to suck..i dnt even know why its getting hyped so much .. the game last sucked ***. the graphics for both games looks like the nba live games at dave and busters.. ea sports trys to hard. thts how they ruined madden...obvisouly 2k will always have the better basketball game..EA sports suck at making basketball games. They need to stick to hockey and soccer