should an early release result in a short or long shot?

[thomonkey]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

You quoted my post and said "but"; my reply was to that, so there's no way it could be taken out of context.

My comment to you was that tapping the button shouldn't result in a better outcome than an airball, and you said "I'd rather have it hit the backboard." Obviously, but people should be punished for a very early release...

Now, outside of the box, you can say a tap airball could easily go as a tip in and that could be abused more so than a smash off the backboard. That makes sense... but hopefully it won't end up where people are throwing pseudo alley-oops by tapping the shoot button.

-Smak

your comments are silly. i really think what you are harping on is a non issue.

[aces01]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

I hope it becomes an option for the user at least. Could be an issue if you're trying to get a shot off while time is running down, and you have to actually hold the shot longer.

[DGMikeBarker]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

It's simple, if you hold the shot analog too long gravity would eventually pull your player downward, and every baller knows you can't shoot a powerful shot on your way down.

[TJG75]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

Shots are controled by so many different variables, spin of the ball, hand position, how the ball comes off your hands, if you have 1 or 2 hands on the ball, where you release the shot (over your head, at your hips, etc...) your consious decision of how much power to use, if your trying to get it over someone taller than you, the jump really doesn't matter. I play basketball, and I have released the ball early and had rimshots, hit the backboard, air ball short, air ball long, made it, same with a shot held too long. It depends on all these factors, so you can't say if you release the ball early, its going to be short/long, if you release the ball late, its going to be long/short. Just my two cents.

[ParisB]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

Shots are controled by so many different variables, spin of the ball, hand position, how the ball comes off your hands, if you have 1 or 2 hands on the ball, where you release the shot (over your head, at your hips, etc...) your consious decision of how much power to use, if your trying to get it over someone taller than you, the jump really doesn't matter. I play basketball, and I have released the ball early and had rimshots, hit the backboard, air ball short, air ball long, made it, same with a shot held too long. It depends on all these factors, so you can't say if you release the ball early, its going to be short/long, if you release the ball late, its going to be long/short. Just my two cents.

Yup. Its really not that big of a deal. NBA players miss all kinds of shots; short, long, way short, way long. These come with early or late releases. The context of the shot and the skill of the player decides.

In the video game world, it makes perfect sense that a too quick of a release means way short or even air ball. Besides, the difference between an early release and late on is fractions of a second, in game u would barely be able to tell.

I only wish they fi bank shots. Having to release way late while the player is on the way down is the biggest problem.

[terminator t22]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

i agree, i was all state in high school (division 4 ohio but thats still respectable) and i dont shoot the ball any harder for a bank unless its straight on and thats just when im screwin around. bank shot should have the same release point, just with the angle right or left. and as far as late and early goes, it would be too hard to put all the aspects of a shot into the game, theres a window where too early will equal short too cause u didnt get up enough and late long because you'll naturally over compensate because ur scared youll be short. they want to treat it like a meter so youll get the best feedback on what u did wrong so u can master the technique

[rEAnimator]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

OK, the decision was made last week but I hadn't found time to type this up, so here goes.

1. The late/early long/short mapping with the controls is going to stay as is.

2. Bank shots will no longer require you to wait until you are on your way down to be successful. If you aim far left or far right just at the peak, you'll get your bank shot. This fixes the problem of ugly bank shots always happening on the way down.

3. Based on feedback from a couple of guys in this thread and one PM I've added a "double clutch" shot mechanic which allows you to alter your shot late in the jump. (I wish I could give credit, but I can't remember and would have to dig through the thread which I don't have time to do)

The double clutch shot will work as follows:

If you click down the right stick mid shot you will make the angle range of your shot twice as small, but you'll move the "ideal" timing for the shot to much later in the shot animation. You will also get a higher arc on the shot. In order to be successful you have to do the click after the "ideal" point in the animation.

This allows you a chance to combat the penalty of a late release with someone in your face.

I'm picturing this being useful on contested fade away shots. It is a much more difficult shot to pull off, but you get the benefit of the higher arc.

Now, as to why we chose to leave the timing the way it is.

We did focus tests with hard core basketball guys here at the studio and not one of them noticed a problem with the mechanic when playing the game.

As the poll here shows, if you ask them if a late shot would go long, they say no simply because that's how it works in real life in the extreme case.

But when you're playing the game you are always trying to hit the sweet spot at the peak, so you almost never see it happen anyway.

You used to with bank shots, but since we fixed that problem, it almost never happens anymore.

Secondly, and this was the thing that convinced me, if you flick up to do a pump fake but accidentally leave the stick up too long and get a shot by accident, it feels really, really wrong if you get a powerful shot off the backboard. The disconnect is huge. Just as bad as the bank shots on your way down.

All these factors led to the decision to leave it the way it was in the first place, but make the changes I described based on the feedback in this thread.

For anyone who disagrees with this decision, I respect where you're coming from. But I ask you reserve final judgment until you try the demo.

There is no perfect answer, but I am confident that what we have built best represents the sport.

You can judge that for yourself when you try the demo.

Thanks for your feedback. Again, the game is now better for it.

[YoungG]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

i am really loving how this game is shaping up, the fact that the developers are taking the time to hear us out and are making changes to create hopefully one of the best basketball games as of late, is truly amazing. Keep up the good work guys.

Hopefully you all stay around for Elite 12 to continue adding on to the game to make it even better next year.

[©roke]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

3. Based on feedback from a couple of guys in this thread and one PM I've added a "double clutch" shot mechanic which allows you to alter your shot late in the jump. (I wish I could give credit, but I can't remember and would have to dig through the thread which I don't have time to do)

The double clutch shot will work as follows:

If you click down the right stick mid shot you will make the angle range of your shot twice as small, but you'll move the "ideal" timing for the shot to much later in the shot animation. You will also get a higher arc on the shot. In order to be successful you have to do the click after the "ideal" point in the animation.

This allows you a chance to combat the penalty of a late release with someone in your face.

I'm picturing this being useful on contested fade away shots. It is a much more difficult shot to pull off, but you get the benefit of the higher arc.

I like how you guys implemented it. It should be hard to make those shots, and this kind of adjustment seems perfect and uses a high risk/reward factor.

Thank you for listening to us!

P.S. I'm proud of myself, lol

[BlackCloudDoggy]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

Wow, thanks for the feedback. This game is only going to get better now and in the future when there's so much communication and discussion between the community and developers. Great fix with the bank shots and the double clutch shots sound really cool.

[ParisB]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

OK, the decision was made last week but I hadn't found time to type this up, so here goes.

1. The late/early long/short mapping with the controls is going to stay as is.

2. Bank shots will no longer require you to wait until you are on your way down to be successful. If you aim far left or far right just at the peak, you'll get your bank shot. This fixes the problem of ugly bank shots always happening on the way down.

3. Based on feedback from a couple of guys in this thread and one PM I've added a "double clutch" shot mechanic which allows you to alter your shot late in the jump. (I wish I could give credit, but I can't remember and would have to dig through the thread which I don't have time to do)

The double clutch shot will work as follows:

If you click down the right stick mid shot you will make the angle range of your shot twice as small, but you'll move the "ideal" timing for the shot to much later in the shot animation. You will also get a higher arc on the shot. In order to be successful you have to do the click after the "ideal" point in the animation.

This allows you a chance to combat the penalty of a late release with someone in your face.

I'm picturing this being useful on contested fade away shots. It is a much more difficult shot to pull off, but you get the benefit of the higher arc.

Now, as to why we chose to leave the timing the way it is.

We did focus tests with hard core basketball guys here at the studio and not one of them noticed a problem with the mechanic when playing the game.

As the poll here shows, if you ask them if a late shot would go long, they say no simply because that's how it works in real life in the extreme case.

But when you're playing the game you are always trying to hit the sweet spot at the peak, so you almost never see it happen anyway.

You used to with bank shots, but since we fixed that problem, it almost never happens anymore.

Secondly, and this was the thing that convinced me, if you flick up to do a pump fake but accidentally leave the stick up too long and get a shot by accident, it feels really, really wrong if you get a powerful shot off the backboard. The disconnect is huge. Just as bad as the bank shots on your way down.

All these factors led to the decision to leave it the way it was in the first place, but make the changes I described based on the feedback in this thread.

For anyone who disagrees with this decision, I respect where you're coming from. But I ask you reserve final judgment until you try the demo.

There is no perfect answer, but I am confident that what we have built best represents the sport.

You can judge that for yourself when you try the demo.

Thanks for your feedback. Again, the game is now better for it.

That's awesome to hear. I understand that logic and completely agree with everything. Loving the double clutch feature as well.

[Pared]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

OK, the decision was made last week but I hadn't found time to type this up, so here goes.

*SNIP*

Great decision. Sounds good.

[Dawgthem]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

I don't know how to speak on this,.I no in the Nba like say,..a buzzer beater would beat a quick flick getting the ball out of your hands quick the ball would arch high toward the rim however the accuracy of the shot could be off but as for it reaching the rim, that was never a question

[PRAY IV M3RCY]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

That's awesome to hear. I understand that logic and completely agree with everything. Loving the double clutch feature as well.

actually what they said still didnt give it a good enough reason for me to keep it the way it is. Its common basketball knowledge, that if you want more power, you use your legs. The longer you are in the air, the less power you lose in your legs, meaning you will have to use your arms. I dont get the disconnect either with the bank shot. Didnt they say alot of it is user controlled? I saw a lot of ugly things in the gameplay videos that didnt look pretty because of the user's skill.