How can Ea bring you Back to Elite?

[sleepytercel]

Re: HOw can Ea bring you Back to ELIte

mlb 2k is a series on the rise, watch out once they fix the glitches and graphics it will be just as good as the show. just saying

I think the series still needs more years of development before it gets to that point, but I am satisfied with what Visual Concepts has done with their year and a half time with the game, especially with how severely unstable Kush's engine was. Next years focus is fielding mechanics and animations, as told to me by one of the developers. This is the development company that has created NFL2K, NBA2K, and CHoops2K, and they all show that, with time, they can make a great series. I don't think 2K11 will be at The Show level...probably not even close, but as I said, consistent development will always make the game greater. It's something Kush Games never understood, and it is something that EA Canada is not providing with the basketball series.

[Mrko]

Re: HOw can Ea bring you Back to ELIte

First off never mention that name Tercel to me. That individual is the epitome of a 2k homer with absolute no objectivity. The fact that he is a moderator for the 2k forums since 2003 renders his comments biased and useless.

Now on to your question. I never left Elite. Only a child would look at those videos and render such a rediculous asumption to a game. Let me ask you a question: Do you buy a car before you test drive it? No, you don't. You have to get behind the wheel and take it for a spin. Sure the car looks hot and in your mind you know its awesome but until you get behind the wheel, you never really know.

Well that is exactly the case with these 2 video games. Sure 2k is all pretty and shiny and makes your mouth water when you see it but you haven't taken it for a spin yet. Will it be a dream machine or will it be a lemmon? You simply don't know. Furthermore with the existing problems this game had last year I think I wanna see the CARFAX before I buy this car.

Now Elite. It doesn't necessarily look as pretty as 2k but what it has under the hood is a mystery and kind of exciting at the same time. But again is it quarter mile speed demon or just a loud clunker? Again we won't really know until we get behind the wheel.

So making any kind of comment about either one of these games is very premature. Once the demos hit, the pieces will fall in to place.

Just finished reading your post, and have to say, there are a few things that i disagree with you on. First of all i have bought several cars without test driving and loved them all. Why, because of the track record that the company had for putting out something i wanted and liked. You say that you don't understand how a person can look at those videos and make an assumption of the game. The gameplay represents, the look of the game. Graphics, motion, animation blending. So i ask you, will you buy a car with a nice clean, powerful engine, with a bad transmission, ugly paint job, dents throughout the body, bad gas mileage. I don't think so. This game seems to have a good engine, but the graphics are second hand, the animations and blending looks robotic. The commentary sounds dry. So back to your car analogy, ill rather buy a game(car) without test edging from a company that haven't let me down before i buy one from a company that has only been able to make one with promise (Live10), then scrap it for something new. The warning signs are there. If you want to get your Jessie Jackson on ( keep hope alive) then that's on you. If it looks like garbage, sounds like garbage, chances are, it is. A V-12 engine in a Pinto.

[Star1]

Re: How can Ea bring you Back to Elite?

<<< This game is always a rental, never a keeper.
2 or 3 things are always missing.

Like WTF noted, last year's game was the most improved, then you start over again with a 3-year plan.

To bring me back:

Add fast breaks.
2 years ago, fast breaks were non-existent.
Last year, there was a smudgen.

If you're gonna market DNA as the latest technology in video games,
FIX IT.
2 years in a row, starting line-ups have to be tinkered with,
because the PF is lined up at the PG position.
*Also, how does Playmakers every year,
figures out a better way to make the players play,
than the default settings?

You have retro jerseys, but no retro players to wear them.
Bring back the All-Decades Teams.

You can add as many free NBA Jams as you want.
Until you add these things,
this game will always be a rental.

[travis72]

Re: HOw can Ea bring you Back to ELIte

Wow, you got banned pretty quick over here as well. Well, if you're still reading these boards, here it goes. First, I am not a "2K Fan". However, I am a fan of the development company that makes several of 2K's games, and that is, Visual Concepts. I discovered this company back with NBA Action 98, and then rediscovered them when NBA and NFL were first released. While they have had some duds here and there, they have consistently tried to advance their games on a yearily basis.

Also, I was on the 2K boards when it used to be Segasports. I have only been a moderator there since 2008. You've been banned there beyond an amount that could be counted. You acuse me of having no objectivity, but you sir have absolutely none. You played 2K7 and hated it, but was forced to play because your series of choice was not good. 2K is ruining the sports industry (which is a stupid belief and just shows how obscure you are).

Okay now...you speak about how positive it is for the Live series to be getting a fresh start, but then you mention how 2K's MLB series is on the brink of death. You mention how the Show became this great game in only three years. The difference between me and you is that...I have knowledge of what's going on...you have blind loyalty.

The NBA Live and MLB2K series are both going through the same phase. They are both on rebuild mode. There are differences though...MLB2K was moved to an entirely different development company, and NBA Elite was not. Remember when 2K brought in the producer Ben Brinkman from the MVP series? This was the start of a three year plan for 2K? Well, the talant behind the game was still Kush Games, and even though there were some cool gameplay changes, this team just couldn't make a stable game. Take Two got rid of Kush Games and brought in Visual Concepts, and in only a year and a half, they've made a significant improvement to the series that Kush couldn't accomplish in four years.

NBA Elite is under this same exact strategy. Put a producer of a well received game, use mostly the same development team, and get something like Elite. Even if you have a good director and a good writer, without good actors, the story will never unfold in the way visioned. As long as the same hands continues to make this game, the game that has been struggling for several years now, it will never progress into something that VC has created.

Okay, now onto the Show and NBA2K. Why do these games have so much within their engine? You want people to believe that Sony just created the Show from the ground up for the PS3. Any Show fan knows that it was ported from the PS2 and then continued to be worked on. That's the same thing Visual Concepts did with NBA2K. You see, both the Show and NBA2K have several years of consistent development. Without consistent development, you get series' like NBA Live and MLB 2K. The developers at Visual Concepts have proven that they know how to provide consistent development, and the developers at Sony have shown that as well, and because of it, their games continue to get deeper and deeper. MLB2K will get to that point as long as Take Two continues to allow VC to develop the series.

Great write up.

[bigsmallwood]

Re: How can Ea bring you Back to Elite?

Simple: They need to build a complete game all around that plays like basketball and that is representational of next gen hardware.

[yungflo]

Re: How can Ea bring you Back to Elite?

why do people keep glorifying this Mike Wang, he is important, but he is not the sole reason behind any of these games being great.

true but lets see, mike signs on live 10 and actually gets a decent rating, an 8! meanwhile, while he was over there, 2k got animation heavy, suddenly hes back with 2k, and the game has made significant strides. pt is, dude is important.

[yungflo]

Re: How can Ea bring you Back to Elite?

Simple: They need to build a complete game all around that plays like basketball and that is representational of next gen hardware.

I think a commentator/former coach needs to hired for his insight into the nba. Give pters and tips, what to fix. Why not someone under the espn license? JVG? Mark? they should look over the game, instead of saying 'hey this is cool"

[ILLSmak]

Re: HOw can Ea bring you Back to ELIte

Wow, you got banned pretty quick over here as well. Well, if you're still reading these boards, here it goes. First, I am not a "2K Fan". However, I am a fan of the development company that makes several of 2K's games, and that is, Visual Concepts. I discovered this company back with NBA Action 98, and then rediscovered them when NBA and NFL were first released. While they have had some duds here and there, they have consistently tried to advance their games on a yearily basis.

Also, I was on the 2K boards when it used to be Segasports. I have only been a moderator there since 2008. You've been banned there beyond an amount that could be counted. You acuse me of having no objectivity, but you sir have absolutely none. You played 2K7 and hated it, but was forced to play because your series of choice was not good. 2K is ruining the sports industry (which is a stupid belief and just shows how obscure you are).

Okay now...you speak about how positive it is for the Live series to be getting a fresh start, but then you mention how 2K's MLB series is on the brink of death. You mention how the Show became this great game in only three years. The difference between me and you is that...I have knowledge of what's going on...you have blind loyalty.

The NBA Live and MLB2K series are both going through the same phase. They are both on rebuild mode. There are differences though...MLB2K was moved to an entirely different development company, and NBA Elite was not. Remember when 2K brought in the producer Ben Brinkman from the MVP series? This was the start of a three year plan for 2K? Well, the talant behind the game was still Kush Games, and even though there were some cool gameplay changes, this team just couldn't make a stable game. Take Two got rid of Kush Games and brought in Visual Concepts, and in only a year and a half, they've made a significant improvement to the series that Kush couldn't accomplish in four years.

NBA Elite is under this same exact strategy. Put a producer of a well received game, use mostly the same development team, and get something like Elite. Even if you have a good director and a good writer, without good actors, the story will never unfold in the way visioned. As long as the same hands continues to make this game, the game that has been struggling for several years now, it will never progress into something that VC has created.

Okay, now onto the Show and NBA2K. Why do these games have so much within their engine? You want people to believe that Sony just created the Show from the ground up for the PS3. Any Show fan knows that it was ported from the PS2 and then continued to be worked on. That's the same thing Visual Concepts did with NBA2K. You see, both the Show and NBA2K have several years of consistent development. Without consistent development, you get series' like NBA Live and MLB 2K. The developers at Visual Concepts have proven that they know how to provide consistent development, and the developers at Sony have shown that as well, and because of it, their games continue to get deeper and deeper. MLB2K will get to that point as long as Take Two continues to allow VC to develop the series.

Man I know you from 2k... when I used to post there. I don't know if we talked much but I know OF you. I played the hell out of 2k7 and 2k8. Those were the only 2k games I played hardcore online. I don't think you can really get a feel for what a game has to offer until you play it hardcore online.

Anyway, it makes me sad to know that in your heart you really believe NBA Live is a bad game. It's sad that I believe you are probably an intelligent person and that you could have really seen the beauty and depth of NBA Live 10... but I guess that's just how life is.

-Smak

[sleepytercel]

Re: How can Ea bring you Back to Elite?

What made Live 10 have depth though? The mostly positive thing people had to say about Live 10 was its ability to contain the paint and make jump shooting more of a focus. That's good, but also not completely realistic.

The problem with Live 10 is its lack of depth IMO. The fact that you could play it for 2 weeks and see everything the game engine has to offer is a sure sign of lacking depth. The CPU was also lacking depth and the post game had very little depth as well. Don't even start on the Dynasty mode.

I never put Live 10 down though...I believe it was average and could grow, but who cares now...it's start over time again. To many fans of the series, it still didn't hold well for a large amount of time, and that's mainly because of how limited the engine was. I guess there weren't really any "surprise" moments that keeps you playing. That is something the 2K series does very well, even after months of playing the game.

[x_irish6]

Re: How can Ea bring you Back to Elite?

As a previous owner & supporter of the Live series (I owned '95, '97, '98, '99, '00, '02, '04, '05 & '06 but have not owned a next gen one yet), who switched to 2k series with NBA 2k6, there doesn't need to be a whole lot for me to switch back since I have found the 2k series a tad stale the last couple of years.

Firstly, it has to have a deep & robust Dynasty Mode. It's my main method of play so this is a very pertinent point for me.

Finally, the game has to look, feel & play like basketball. I like that they are putting control in the hands of the user & am optimistic the demo will show this. I however am not optimistic that it will have the right feel.

The reason for my concern with Elite '11 is it's in its first year of development cycle. I remember being very disappointed after buying both NHL 07 & FIFA 08 and returning them within a few days of purchase. Both games I believe were in the first year of their new controls (NHL)/physics (FIFA) but were very bare on player modes & just weren't that fun to play against the CPU. Both games lacked soul. Fast forward now & I haven't put FIFA 10 down since buying it almost a year ago. I never gave NHL series another chance, such was my disappointment with NHL 07.

[Dawgthem]

Re: HOw can Ea bring you Back to ELIte

Man I know you from 2k... when I used to post there. I don't know if we talked much but I know OF you. I played the hell out of 2k7 and 2k8. Those were the only 2k games I played hardcore online. I don't think you can really get a feel for what a game has to offer until you play it hardcore online.

Anyway, it makes me sad to know that in your heart you really believe NBA Live is a bad game. It's sad that I believe you are probably an intelligent person and that you could have really seen the beauty and depth of NBA Live 10... but I guess that's just how life is.

-Smak

Please explain from looking at those videos what Depth is there in Elite...what depth is there?.....let me know!..there ain't no depth in that game than the depth in my kitchen sink..which is clogged at the moment Son you better open your eyes

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: HOw can Ea bring you Back to ELIte

Anyway, it makes me sad to know that in your heart you really believe NBA Live is a bad game.

What part of his post made you think this?

[DETERMINOLOGY]

Re: How can Ea bring you Back to Elite?

Why do people like you keep acting like his influence isn't that significant when all the evidence points to the contrary?

If you consider the fact that 2K11 now features almost everything that made Live 10 a great game (responsive player movement, smooth jumpers/leaners, right stick passing) it's pretty clear. Of course he's only one developer, but he was the lead designer on Live 10 and now 2K11.

You're also on OS, a board filled with die hard NBA fans. The fact that Mike has proven to be the same is why you see that level of respect from so many. Seems to go in line with that "basketball is a brotherhood" train of thought.

Just look how many 2k die hards flipped out when he left for Live 10!

AGREED..People wont give mike wang any credit and dude is a beast when it comes to basketball knowledge..I mean just look at everything thats been added/revamped into 2k11 and some of the ideas was in nba live 10 as well. Now with elite 11 im seeing something totally different and its alot of stiff box board movement and the animations looks funny and imo this year 2k11 is going to be elites nightmare

[VDusen04]

Re: How can Ea bring you Back to Elite?

Welp, from the looks of things, it'd take a lot to bring me back to Elite. I could have sworn they were a lot closer to the mark last year, from what I've seen. For me, personally, I'm a fan of small details and an accurate looking/animated game. This, along with even a 2K level of control makes a game very fun to me. So I suppose Elite would have to equal 2K in this regard and then supplant them with features, details and/or abilities 2K did not already have.

Also, I think 2K might have to stumble along the way. At least, that's how I ended up with 2K in the first place. I like being comfortable and playing what I know, which is what the early NBA Live's provided. I was satisfied all the way up through NBA Live 2000. Eventually, however, Live made enough missteps and 2K made enough positive moves that a switch in primary games became unavoidable for me. NBA 2K2 wasn't just something new, it was something good and revolutionary. I picture that's how a switch back to Elite would have to go.

[Boge]

Re: How can Ea bring you Back to Elite?

I haven't played an EA NBA game since Live 2001 for PS2. I'm a huge Player-Lock guy and Live was the only option for it for many years. However, in 2002 and since, Live has forgotten about this mode and must have just not tested it.

There were a couple of years where the players wouldn't shoot the ball on their own, or they'd pass it back and forth between the guards until a shot clock violation would happen 100% of the time. I had to force them to do something else. It was not playable.

I gave up on basketball games until NBA 2K7, then 2K showed me a couple of decent ball games. However, in 2K10 the controls went to the crapper and I skipped it. I was really excited about the My Player mode which Live didn't have. Now I'm hearing Elite has that mode, but this is the first year? So it will probably be thrown in there and suck.

So for me, a basketball has got to be deep in statistics and association modes, and needs fantastic AI to work with my Player-lock type of play. The game also needs a decent create player mode, which last I checked, EAs sucked. And of course the controls need to be good, which I hear EA has been better than 2K, but overall, the whole package hasn't been there for either game the past year or more.


I fear for 2K this year though because I think they're just spending too much time on all this "Jordan" stuff. They could spend that effort just polishing the game and making it better. Jordan was last century news, people. It's time to move on.