EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Playmakers
    Hall Of Fame
    • Sep 2004
    • 15417

    #46
    Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

    Originally posted by eDotd
    You need animations in a basketball game, period.

    Yes it's a team game but it is one of the (if not the) most individualized sports in the world. The players make the game what it is. They need to have an identity, they need to dribble, shoot, dunk and move like their real life counter parts. OS has shown they we're willing to overlook the omission of these aspects if the base of the sport is there. This is why the reaction from the Elite videos is so bad (not the sole reason, but we're discussing animation issues). The base was there with Live 10, wasn't perfect but it was present. It was definitely something they could successfully build on and yet it gets scrapped to focus on something that wasn't really a problem to begin with (control).

    Every benchmark in basketball gaming has moved the on the court product closer to the real thing. Tendencies in ID04/2K7, Synergy in Live 09, Signature Style in NBA 2K7, Live 10's Playsets etc. Although they may not have all been implemented correctly or efficiently, they all helped bring the genre closer to it's real life counter part. All of these things strengthened not only every NBA team's, but every individual on that team, identity.

    Players in Elite have no identity. I am sure they still have Synergy but even if Durant shoots from the left side of the floor 77% of the time, or goes left 54% of the time (made up numbers), if it doesn't look like Durant doing it it's a major disconnect imo.


    Just made a duplicate post in another thread...

    This is basketball not hockey or soccer. This is injustice to Chris Paul making him look like a scrub on the floor handcuffing him to generic basic basketball moves.

    When you watch TNT you know Paul is going to put on a show....he's going to do something with the rock that makes you go damn did he just do that crossover or behind the back move.

    In Elite he's going dribble like a damn clown and pass the ball the same way Tyson Chandler makes a pass. No one will run up and down the floor with any IDENTITY at all to them. A bunch damn Bruce Bowens moving around at PG, SG, SF, PF and C
    NCAA FOOTBALL 14 ALUMNI LEGENDS CPU vs CPU DYNASTY THREAD
    https://forums.operationsports.com/f...s-dynasty.html

    Follow some the Greatest College Football players of All Time in NCAA Football 14

    Comment

    • Behindshadows
      CEO - BSG Network
      • Nov 2004
      • 8055

      #47
      Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

      Originally posted by eDotd
      You need animations in a basketball game, period.

      Yes it's a team game but it is one of the (if not the) most individualized sports in the world. The players make the game what it is. They need to have an identity, they need to dribble, shoot, dunk and move like their real life counter parts. OS has shown they we're willing to overlook the omission of these aspects if the base of the sport is there. This is why the reaction from the Elite videos is so bad (not the sole reason, but we're discussing animation issues). The base was there with Live 10, wasn't perfect but it was present. It was definitely something they could successfully build on and yet it gets scrapped to focus on something that wasn't really a problem to begin with (control).

      Every benchmark in basketball gaming has moved the on the court product closer to the real thing. Tendencies in ID04/2K7, Synergy in Live 09, Signature Style in NBA 2K7, Live 10's Playsets etc. Although they may not have all been implemented correctly or efficiently, they all helped bring the genre closer to it's real life counter part. All of these things strengthened not only every NBA team's, but every individual on that team, identity.

      Players in Elite have no identity. I am sure they still have Synergy but even if Durant shoots from the left side of the floor 77% of the time, or goes left 54% of the time (made up numbers), if it doesn't look like Durant doing it it's a major disconnect imo.
      Right on the nose.....Great Post!!!!

      This is what people keep overlooking is the point of it all. The graphics didn't suffer last year and it controlled fine. Why is it so important this year?

      People keep saying, it's total control in Elite 11 and it's more fluid of this and that. But keep overlooking the main point. (CONTROLS WEREN'T THE ISSUE)

      Animations and signature stuff was the issue, now we have less of them instead of more of them. And on top of that the graphics declined in the process to sacrifice for more control crap, that wasn't needed in the first place.

      On the court this doesn't look like basketball, rather you can right stick here and left stick there. It's looks robotic and unnatural, and to make it worse the game visually now. Looks like NBA the inside on PSP/PS3. That is a horrific thing for all of us fans of the series.

      Comment

      • 23
        yellow
        • Sep 2002
        • 66469

        #48
        Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

        I totally agree with you guys completely. I have the same feeling as the rest of you and the others .... that said

        Some people just dont care about that. IMO it doesnt represent the sport right without it, but few others are telling you they'll sacrifice the realism and look, animations, etc... for control


        You may disagree, and I do for sure, but thats their side. Somehow canned animations have made their way to the forefront as the main issues although thats not the case at all, but thats what it is.

        If I see the words dice roll and canned, etc.. again I dont know what else to do. Look back a year to 5 year and these are not words that people normally used to voice their most frustrating displeasures overall.

        Again, there is a definite seperation here with this game and thats why I said some people will like it and some just wont... controls or not remember I told you.

        Comment

        • Muzyk23
          MVP
          • Feb 2003
          • 4192

          #49
          Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

          This thread is the truth. I applaud guys like Czar, Playmakers, Shadows and others, who have more cred here than an average poster, for getting it out. Hope we as OS community will be heard.
          NBA

          Comment

          • Playmakers
            Hall Of Fame
            • Sep 2004
            • 15417

            #50
            Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

            Originally posted by 23
            I totally agree with you guys completely. I have the same feeling as the rest of you and the others .... that said

            Some people just dont care about that. IMO it doesnt represent the sport right without it, but few others are telling you they'll sacrifice the realism and look, animations, etc... for control


            You may disagree, and I do for sure, but thats their side. Somehow canned animations have made their way to the forefront as the main issues although thats not the case at all, but thats what it is.

            If I see the words dice roll and canned, etc.. again I dont know what else to do. Look back a year to 5 year and these are not words that people normally used to voice their most frustrating displeasures overall.

            Again, there is a definite seperation here with this game and thats why I said some people will like it and some just wont... controls or not remember I told you.
            Yeah man but you know it ain't right to see Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo running around on the floor looking like Pee Wee Herman out there dribbling the ball.

            I mean come on at what point does player identity take precedence over control?

            We've had above avg controls for years in Live. Even when most people thought the games were garbage the controlls were still very good.

            I'm sick of this take one step forward and then 2 steps backwards routine. Like i said before i don't play hockey or soccer.....i play basketball. I'm not seeing any true basketball visuals in this game. I didn't even bother watching the videos to see what the human player was doing. I watched those videos to see if it looked like basketball on the floor.

            They both FAILED in that regard.
            NCAA FOOTBALL 14 ALUMNI LEGENDS CPU vs CPU DYNASTY THREAD
            https://forums.operationsports.com/f...s-dynasty.html

            Follow some the Greatest College Football players of All Time in NCAA Football 14

            Comment

            • Da_Czar
              NBA 2K Gameplay Producer, Offensive AI System - SIM NATION
              • Jul 2002
              • 5408

              #51
              Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

              Originally posted by 23


              You may disagree, and I do for sure, but thats their side. Somehow canned animations have made their way to the forefront as the main issues although thats not the case at all, but thats what it is.

              If I see the words dice roll and canned, etc.. again I dont know what else to do. Look back a year to 5 year and these are not words that people normally used to voice their most frustrating displeasures overall.


              THey have been the control champions for sometime now. This was almost redundant. Especially since not even the supporters feel the implementation of RTP looks anywhere as good as they hyped it up to be. In fact if they didn't tell you it was in the game I doubt many would look at that and say wow that is revolutionary contact right there, is that a new engine ?
              Catch me on that #SimNation #SimHangOut Friday's @ 10:00 pm est https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...N7yxMiElOpMl_B

              Comment

              • Muzyk23
                MVP
                • Feb 2003
                • 4192

                #52
                Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

                Originally posted by 23
                I totally agree with you guys completely. I have the same feeling as the rest of you and the others .... that said

                Some people just dont care about that. IMO it doesnt represent the sport right without it, but few others are telling you they'll sacrifice the realism and look, animations, etc... for control


                You may disagree, and I do for sure, but thats their side. If I see the words dice roll and canned, etc.. again I dont know what else Somehow canned animations have made their way to the forefront as the main issues although thats not the case at all, but thats what it is.

                to do. Look back a year to 5 year and these are not words that people normally used to voice their most frustrating displeasures overall.

                Again, there is a definite seperation here with this game and thats why I said some people will like it and some just wont... controls or not remember I told you.
                Yes. It seems to me like the plan was to make people believe that suction, canned animations, dice-roll shots (?) and control were the biggest flaws. All this to sell customers on a new direction the new team took disregarding the opinion of the majority of community.
                NBA

                Comment

                • da ThRONe
                  Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 8528

                  #53
                  Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

                  Originally posted by Da_Czar


                  THey have been the control champions for sometime now. This was almost redundant. Especially since not even the supporters feel the implementation of RTP looks anywhere as good as they hyped it up to be. In fact if they didn't tell you it was in the game I doubt many would look at that and say wow that is revolutionary contact right there, is that a new engine ?
                  This is my problem. I dont mind some tradeoff but it seems like they're giving up way too much to get way too little.
                  You looking at the Chair MAN!

                  Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                  Comment

                  • 23
                    yellow
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 66469

                    #54
                    Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

                    Originally posted by Playmakers
                    Yeah man but you know it ain't right to see Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo running around on the floor looking like Pee Wee Herman out there dribbling the ball.

                    I mean come on at what point does player identity take precedence over control?

                    We've had above avg controls for years in Live. Even when most people thought the games were garbage the controlls were still very good.

                    I'm sick of this take one step forward and then 2 steps backwards routine. Like i said before i don't play hockey or soccer.....i play basketball. I'm not seeing any true basketball visuals in this game. I didn't even bother watching the videos to see what the human player was doing. I watched those videos to see if it looked like basketball on the floor.

                    They both FAILED in that regard.
                    Look man, I dont disagree.. I think thats the wrong way to go, its generic,and I've had voiced the same issues here just as you guys have and I realized it that it wont matter what I say right now. If they didnt listen to Mike then it wont matter what you say.

                    Sad but again, its a difference of philosophy and this might be the first year where you say this game is really not for me.

                    Comment

                    • 23
                      yellow
                      • Sep 2002
                      • 66469

                      #55
                      Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

                      Originally posted by Da_Czar


                      THey have been the control champions for sometime now. This was almost redundant. Especially since not even the supporters feel the implementation of RTP looks anywhere as good as they hyped it up to be. In fact if they didn't tell you it was in the game I doubt many would look at that and say wow that is revolutionary contact right there, is that a new engine ?
                      Agreed, there was nothing wrong with control.. the advertising seemed to be a distraction.

                      As far as the videos go it doesnt matter what is shown, there are going to be things that people wont like what they see.

                      Truthfully, you cannot tell a persons eyes that you have to feel it.

                      Comment

                      • Admiral50
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 3311

                        #56
                        Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

                        Originally posted by Da_Czar


                        THey have been the control champions for sometime now. This was almost redundant. Especially since not even the supporters feel the implementation of RTP looks anywhere as good as they hyped it up to be. In fact if they didn't tell you it was in the game I doubt many would look at that and say wow that is revolutionary contact right there, is that a new engine ?
                        Such a good post.

                        You can only shake your head and wonder what EA were thinking by changing and removing some of the best features of their product in place of what seems like half-assed features none of their fans or critics ever wanted.

                        Comment

                        • tybud
                          Rookie
                          • May 2008
                          • 76

                          #57
                          Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

                          are they putting together a game for the consumer or for them selves, why would you go againts the essence of the sport. like not having all players act as their selves thats what makes sports great. if everybody does the same things and are affective in the same way then theres no stradegy. i thought what they where doing was the best thing for the game. when they said control my thoughts where you would be able to control the players for who they are on the court. but all there really given us is control over is generic game play, the way the see it and not the way the game is actually structured and played in real life. live 10 was heading in the rite direction and the they make an abrupt turn, that had no real meaning , other than lets try something different. wowim out dog

                          Comment

                          • Nokstar
                            Rookie
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 225

                            #58
                            Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

                            Ok...let me tell you guys what it is.

                            well..first off...let me FIRST say that the idea and what it looks like on paper for EA with this RTP thing and FULL control is GREAT....i dont want them to take all this negativity and think that we DONT want this amount of control over our moves because we DO...this is not about that. The real problem is the QUALITY of the "real-time physics" and the quality of the animations all over in the game (and graphics imo).

                            I think they definately took for granted the importance on how good the animations look and how good the graphics look in general in order to focus on giving us full/responsive control....i mean its not just the one on one moves..its EVERYTHING...the basic running animations look akward...rocket dunks...awkard jumps from rebounds...not enough variety in great looking animations...theres just alot of unnatural looking animations in this game and its been that way for YEARS for EA...last year in live 10 they had the best overrall package of animations, but imo the post animations in particular were TERRIBLE. I also had a issue with how player models looked but thats another outside issue.

                            I also want to point out that it seems like whoever is in control of sculpting the gameplay does not have a realistic image of how simulation basketball is played. The game speed is fast..passes are very dramatic looking at times...dunks are very dramatic looking at times.

                            I could make this post extremely long cuz there is so much wrong with this game and the approach these guys are taking...but i will say what i think they should do for the future. KEEP THE IDEA OF FULL RESPONSIVE CONTROL with the right analog stick..this is a great idea please do not abandon it because of these responses. What needs to be done for the future is focus on:

                            1...The QUALITY of the the animations in general..they need to look more natural and less dramatic in certain situation. In real basketball u will see basic dunks...subtle dunks..crazy dunks...as of right now it seems like every move was mo capped to look like a highlight. Basic running/dribbling animations need to less "stiff" and robotic.
                            Not just dunks...EVERYTHING. It really seems like they need a new person to handle animations and mocap.

                            2...the QUANTITY of animations...this does not mean alot of canned animations...this means signature animations, more dunk animations, more CONTEXT animations that make sense in the situation, realistic contact animations....we just want to see enough to the point where it doesnt look and feel so generic.

                            3...more signature animations...i hate to bring up the other game..but 2k11 are so far ahead in this area that you simple CANNOT afford to have only a fraction of the amount they are offering...and again..the quality of the animations are far...FAR better.

                            4...please..PLEASE...get somebody who really knows basketball in and out to control the direction of this series...the game has just went into a super arcade route and theres so many variables that give off the impression...from the dramatic look of animations...to the speed.

                            5...player models need drastic improvement...imo..the waistlines are too small..overrall they are too slender...

                            again...i dont think they should abandon the control system they have in line...but i DO think they should abandon RTP as they know it. I honestly think some areas of the gameplay just doesnt work with real time physics...i dont think its possible to have the game look and play the way its needs to play with rtp in this current generation of consoles.

                            Comment

                            • BaselineBakes
                              MVP
                              • Dec 2006
                              • 1510

                              #59
                              Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

                              Originally posted by Admiral50
                              Such a good post.

                              You can only shake your head and wonder what EA were thinking by changing and removing some of the best features of their product in place of what seems like half-assed features none of their fans or critics ever wanted.
                              Gotta also agree, the controls and player interaction based on the real time physics look OK, but if this is your most highly regarded and marketed addition it needs to look more then OK.

                              At times on the court it just looks like the offensive player and defensive players are in two different realities. I'm not sure how to explain it, there's just no offensive-defensive action-reaction going on, no hand-checks, bumps, cutting off of the ball handler. It seems as if it's two separate games going on, the ball handler does a stiff cross-over, around the back, double cross, and the defender is looking out into the distance hunched over and occasionally sliding and once in awhile leaping out of the air for a late block attempt, if this is your new physics engine it's not doing it for me.

                              Comment

                              • Nokstar
                                Rookie
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 225

                                #60
                                Re: EA why after 5 years can't we get improved animations?

                                Oh and for the record...if they player models from live 10 were just a little "thicker" and didnt have the super high gloss...they would have the best player models.

                                Comment

                                Working...