In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

[JohnDoe8865]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

I'm glad I kept my copy of NBA Live 10, it's still a fun game to play. Watching this video shows me how much better Live 10 looked graphically and animation wise. I haven't had hands-on with Elite 11 obviously, but I also thought Live 10 had the best controls of any basketball game last year. I actually enjoyed the dribbling and shooting mechanics in Live 10.

I really feel similar to BehindShadows, in that instead of re-inventing the wheel with NBA Elite, that Live 10 could have been polished, had a really good franchise mode put in to replace the broken one that existed, and still added the Become Legendary mode.

That would be a game I would be tremendously interested in. NBA Live 10's look, sound, and gameplay with some animation fixes and added transition animations with a brand new dynasty mode and become legendary mode.

[JWiLL02]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

live 10 was not successful critically at all. it had better things in it then 08 and 09. for sure. but it was still a long way to go. anyone who thought live 10';s controlls were cool and all that needed to be added was more animations just wants a shiney penny. i'm looking for a diamond. right now its in the rough. time to polish that baby.

Not successful critically?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/plays...-3/nba-live-10

Average score of 81 from 32 critic reviews, by FAR the most well received Live on this generation of consoels. Now would you scrap that game, change what worked well and completely ignore it's weaknesses or just build upon it's strengths and revamp the weak areas?

I know what EA did.

[ParisB]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

lol, how is it BACKWARDS?

I swear you guys complain about everything....

[The 24th Letter]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

lol, how is it BACKWARDS?

I swear you guys complain about everything....

The homerism is just getting ridiculous man.

Just stop it.

The guy who created this thread is one of EA's biggest avocates.

[kingpnp]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

Not successful critically?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/plays...-3/nba-live-10

Average score of 81 from 32 critic reviews, by FAR the most well received Live on this generation of consoels. Now would you scrap that game, change what worked well and completely ignore it's weaknesses or just build upon it's strengths and revamp the weak areas?

I know what EA did.

NBA live 10's strength was synergy sports. the entire thing where you could download tonights game and get the TEAm's tendencies as well as the playes was REVOLUTIONARY. did they scrapt this? NOPE.

what live's weakness as well as all hoop games for ever is the canned animations vs actually controlling what you do. look realistic while it does its on thing and you stand by to take control. or you do what you are trying to do but it looks less realistic in certain situations. because certain things dont happen as often in certain pro basketball situations.
someone said earlier its physically impossible to break out of a spin move and then jump. thats not true. you can do that in real life. but who would want to? but thats the difference between RTP and the old way. the RTP direction is so new to the point where yes ea may lose a few fan early but in 2012 and 13 they will come running back in droves. because Ea will be the game that has the ground breaking tech already present in their game.

[ParisB]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

The homerism is just getting ridiculous man.

Just stop it.

The guy who created this thread is one of EA's biggest avocates.

yea I'm a homer because my opinion is different

[neegotiator]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

I see where reanimator's coming from, playing Live 10 last year I got frustrated too with some animations. For example, getting caught up in a contact anim that drives me out of bounds or something. Obviously Elite took a huge hit in smoothness, but still interested in trying out the demo.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

yea I'm a homer because my opinion is different

LOL! now thats hilarious.....

The vast majority of your posts consist of praising whatever info\footage you see followed by something to the effect of "LOL'ing at the ******" or "LOL at the people who think....." or "blah blah fan boys bashing" etc.

THATS bashing opinion.

and thats not something I made up, click on your name and look at your posts, maybe you dont know your doing it?

My bad, not to get off topic, its just gets old man.

[pdawg17]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

I see where reanimator's coming from, playing Live 10 last year I got frustrated too with some animations. For example, getting caught up in a contact anim that drives me out of bounds or something. Obviously Elite took a huge hit in smoothness, but still interested in trying out the demo.

Yep...just about every time I would drive to the basket if a defender was anywhere near the lane my ball handler would go into a double-pump, flip shot animation...I can totally see why EA wanted to redo how contact works/canimations...

I'm not saying Elite will be an improvement but if you look back at threads for Live 10 you will find a lot of people complaining about the "suck-in" animations...now EA goes a different direction and people want it back...

Live 10 LOOKS better on video because of those animations but when I had those animations occur while playing Live 10 it drove me crazy...so I'm hoping the opposite will be true for Elite 11 - doesn't look so good on video but will be a blast to control...

[2kfanatic]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

live 10 was not successful critically at all. it had better things in it then 08 and 09. for sure. but it was still a long way to go. anyone who thought live 10';s controlls were cool and all that needed to be added was more animations just wants a shiney penny. i'm looking for a diamond. right now its in the rough. time to polish that baby.

It is a success rating wise but not as a selling product..... I'm not saying they should add animations, I'm saying they should replace or fix the current animations because its not realistic of course without sacrificing control.

[RayDog253]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

Okay after watching the video again after a few hours, I can see how people are saying it looks a lil PSP-ish. I notice this now as well, but I can't figure out what makes it look that way.

Is it just the lack of lighting and skin texture? Or is it the player models and animations???

I see it now, but I just can figure out why....

I wonder if the graphics were dumbed down so the game would run smoother???

[eDotd]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

what live's weakness as well as all hoop games for ever is the canned animations vs actually controlling what you do. look realistic while it does its on thing and you stand by to take control. or you do what you are trying to do but it looks less realistic in certain situations. because certain things dont happen as often in certain pro basketball situations.

Live's weaknesses were lack of animations/player individuality and other basketball fundamentals that were either missing or not implemented correctly.

the RTP direction is so new to the point where yes ea may lose a few fan early but in 2012 and 13 they will come running back in droves. because Ea will be the game that has the ground breaking tech already present in their game.

I hope your psychic crystal ball is correct.

[SincerelYourz]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

lets wait for the final product...hard to compare a finished game with a work in progress.

[SincerelYourz]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

It's really interesting how different my perspective is from yours.

When I look at the Live 10 video, what I see are long drawn out animations that felt so horrible to me that I had to put down the controller.

I'll take Elite any day of the week, and this video comparison just re-enforced that opinion for me.

my only gripe is the way the defenders arms just stick out to the side. it's just so generic, give them some life! NBA Elite 11 needs a swagger rating...

[Tha_Kid]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

Yep...just about every time I would drive to the basket if a defender was anywhere near the lane my ball handler would go into a double-pump, flip shot animation...I can totally see why EA wanted to redo how contact works/canimations...

I'm not saying Elite will be an improvement but if you look back at threads for Live 10 you will find a lot of people complaining about the "suck-in" animations...now EA goes a different direction and people want it back...

Live 10 LOOKS better on video because of those animations but when I had those animations occur while playing Live 10 it drove me crazy...so I'm hoping the opposite will be true for Elite 11 - doesn't look so good on video but will be a blast to control...

Pretty much. I don't agree with the sentiment that Live 10 would've been great if they just added animations. It is what I thought they'd do. The suction animations blew, but you accepted them as the game's defensive balance. They were a realistic enough representation of what should happen. You'd assume EA would just add a bunch more for various contexts so it wouldn't come off as stale. Add in more signature jumpshots and goto moves, along with a post game and some player or at least player type packages for post game and quickstrike. That would've been what I expected.

Like Momentous pointed out, Live's weaknesses were a lack of player individuality and certain fundamentals (e.g. rebounding, deflections/interceptions, post game). My biggest gripe about Live 10 wouldve been the feel, mainly on defense. Unlike other NBA games, Live didn't feel like the players respected each others presence at all. It's what made every physical element (e.g. on ball D, trying to take a charge in the paint, rebounding) of ball feel lacking in Live 10. The physics blog spelled it out exactly.

Elite is a pleasant surprise in some ways. RTP is going above and beyond just improving the contact animations by instead making every player their own entity and then using physics to govern the interactions. The puzzling thing is how they let the graphical fidelity drop so far. Look at their quick clips and it looks good, or look at EA's promo videos where they show both games and Elite is clearly the better looking one. Maybe it looks a bit better in person, but DRE & Jano saw it in person and haven't said anything to make me think thats the case.

Live 10

1:35 - Great box out and rebound by Shard.

1:46 - 1:50 - nice walk up animation from Conley, really ads to the feel of an NBA game, not seeing that type of thing in 11 so far.

Next Orlando possession - very cool set-up looking dribble for Nelson, nice curl by Pietrus and then a good dive and shot for Nelson, all fluid except for the slight hitch in the jumpshot.

2:24 - Check out Randolph(i believe) pointing out other players while Conley is dribbling, it gives the players personality, and I didn't see any thing like that in the 11 video.

2:57 Another smooth looking rebound from Howard.

3:24 - Great sequence here with Carter trying to use the set-up dribble and then OJ poking the ball out during the proper time.

3:56 - Check Rudy Gay get proper position in front of his man and extend to get that offensive board.

4:18 - manual double team split, control looked good there.

Just some of the things animation wise that I enjoyed from live 10, that I'm not seeing so far from elite 11

A couple things:

Three of those are rebounds, which were practically predetermined in Live 10. Both Elite videos have shown some questionable rebounds but it is still a much better system than Live 10. Steals on sizeups were better than steals in general, but that was the defensive counter to sizeups, steals in the game were random and your hand could phase through the ball regularly.

The sizeups/setup dribbles and the steals from them are gone because they were canned. They looked great and added some much needed individuality but I'd rather have the controls as they are with different dribble styles, including signature ones for the better ballhandlers. One of Elite's biggest issues is that they didn't do this at all, which leads to the game looking generic in the animation sense. This isn't as big against the AI, since Real AI & DNA should get the players to play like themselves, but in user v. user games, you want animations there to visually separate the guys and Elite doesn't seem to have it.

I certainly think that it is pretty silly that they thought one look for dribbling was going to be OK, first year or not. Understandable if you can't signature the stars 1-to-1 ballhandling, but at least lay some groundwork for differentiation. At the least, the game should have 6 or so styles/packages each for guards forwards and centers. John Wall & Deron Williams shouldn't dribble the same, yet in Elite not only will Wall handle look similar to Deron's but to Kobe, Durant, Dirk, and Amare. The difference is only in the success and speed. Live 10 had an issue with player individuality and Elite took out what was there (other than Jumpers) without providing a replacement.

The inter-player animations (Randolph pointing) that add to realism should've stayed, I don't get those not being in.

The plays i've seen ran in Elite look pretty good, and the best part is the variability that the physics adds to screens. Add the quick plays in Elite and that is an area I see as clearly improved.

Now would you scrap that game, change what worked well and completely ignore it's weaknesses or just build upon it's strengths and revamp the weak areas?

I know what EA did.

That's a joke.

Players getting beat on canned animations. The double team system. No sense of physicality in the paint or on the perimeter. Limited & generic post game. The suction collisions in the paint. The whole interception/steal system. Taking charges. The blocking and rebounding system. Loose ball retrieval. CPU AI that was lackluster. Players not playing like themselves. Shooting that many people complained felt scripted. Lack of modes. Weak Dynasty. Weak presentation. Look at Czar's 2k10/Live10 Battleground. Many of these basketball areas are addressed in Elite.

Control was great in Live 10? In a lot ways it was, but it either wasn't there or was governed by canned animations in the instances that Elite is addressing.

There seems to be a chorus about "why redo the controls when they were already good", without looking at how it's better. Just defensively, in Live 10 you had take charge (worthless and broken) hands up, block and steal (both systems suspect). In Elite, you have the same hands up, challenge with either hand, steal with either hand or block. Steal & Take charge are more useful now that the game recognizes the players running into each other and the ball is considered loose. You flat out have more defensive options. You got beat by the offensive player triggering the blow by animation in Live 09 & 10, while in Elite, that is on the defender.

On offense, it doesn't change things too much, but the logic on how to do a dribble move is more intuitive when you know the RS is your hands. The "skill" shooting is something I like in theory, and the right or left handed layups add choice that wasn't there. The gathers were in Live 10 but they weren't separate from the finish, and you had to trigger them from a certain distance. Now you can choose your gather and your finish. I like the move to a more granular control in some respects while in others I have to see if it isn't overly cerebral.

Were there weaknesses ignored? Of course, but this talk as if the issues that the physics engine and new controls address suddenly didn't exist is laughable.

Seeing the official videos, I don't like the dull look of graphics, the graphical fidelity of these animations generated on the fly is low and on top of that they aren't always realistic looking (In-air collisions in particular).

Still, if Elite animated the same as it does but retained the same overall look & graphical style as last year, I wonder if so many people would really try to say Live 10 truly looks better. Elite looks like an improvement in many basketball areas to me, albeit at the cost of animations that gave Live 10 what little individuality it did have. Even if I don't like certain choices that have been made (e.g. the dull graphical look, adding zero individuality outside of jumpers, unrealistic jumping and verticals), the overall direction of making each player a separate entity that has to be accounted for is one i'm in support of.