In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

[fatleg3]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

It's really interesting how different my perspective is from yours.

When I look at the Live 10 video, what I see are long drawn out animations that felt so horrible to me that I had to put down the controller.

I'll take Elite any day of the week, and this video comparison just re-enforced that opinion for me.

This is what i have been saying about playing live 10.

The animations first of all seemed to slow you and the other player involoved in it down. Then you get stuck in it and can do nothing about it until the animation finished.

[Behindshadows]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

This is what i have been saying about playing live 10.

The animations first of all seemed to slow you and the other player involoved in it down. Then you get stuck in it and can do nothing about it until the animation finished.

What is it that you contribute to every thread you post in, other than agreeing with everything a developer says. You've posted the same agreement post over and over again. In almost every thread, where someone is posting a valid complaint or disagreement.

Why don't you honestly elaborate or point out specifics on you whole, what made Live 10 so bad, control wise and animation wise! I'd love to really hear this.

[RayDog253]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

Did you work on last year's game? In all fairness, if the drawn out animations were so horrible to you, why did you put them in NBA Live 10 in the first place??

I think you can thank Mike Wang and all the cheesers for that one. Live 10 to me seemed like it was TOO anti-cheese.

And plus thats how games have been being made so why wouldn't it be in Live 10????

[fatleg3]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

What is it that you contribute to every thread you post in, other than agreeing with everything a developer says. You've posted the same agreement post over and over again. In almost every thread, where someone is posting a valid complaint or disagreement.

Why don't you honestly elaborate or point out specifics on you whole, what made Live 10 so bad, control wise and animation wise! I'd love to really hear this.

^^^^^ What does this contribute to the thread

Read most of my posts on every thread. They are like 4 paragraphs long. I go into detail almost every post.

Live 10 to me was a great game. I just didnt like the getting stuck doing things part.

Once again somebody wants to be mr.smartallic. I said it and ill say it again.
In live 10 you got stuck in animations when trying to drive past someone, dunk or lay the ball up, rebounds, and steal. When the animation happend you cant do anything to effect them and had to wait for it to end to do anything. You couldnt break out of it or anything. You knew the ball has going to be knocked away as soon as the animtaion happened or that you was going to drive past the defender as soon as the animation happened.

With that said I still like the gameplay as a whole.

Is that good enough for you

[authentic]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

From what I've seen, I think some people might be surprised when they play the new Elite series. For some games, you actually have to play the game in person to know what it feels like or plays like. Personally, I think Elite does look better than Live '10. I don't like 2k and how it feels and I don't think I ever will. 2k is so slow and delayed to do with response. One thing EA did well is the physics I think. I still think some people may be shocked when they play it. I remember I hated the way that NHL 09 looked and it turned out to be one of the best games I've ever played, same with FIFA 09. Just keep an open mind and hope for the best, I think EA has more potential than 2k because 2k is taking massive hits because of huge losses with every product besides the NBA 2k series. Also, the studio working on Elite has to do with the FIFA or NHL series or maybe both so they have that going for them. EA Canada also developed a lifetime favorite or mine and a lot of people in MVP Baseball, and if anyone remembers what Triple Play Baseball was, and then what EA Canada did with the MVP series, I am pumped to see this years game and especially next years.

[coolcras7]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

From what I've seen, I think some people might be surprised when they play the new Elite series. For some games, you actually have to play the game in person to know what it feels like or plays like. Personally, I think Elite does look better than Live '10. I don't like 2k and how it feels and I don't think I ever will. 2k is so slow and delayed to do with response. One thing EA did well is the physics I think. I still think some people may be shocked when they play it. I remember I hated the way that NHL 09 looked and it turned out to be one of the best games I've ever played, same with FIFA 09. Just keep an open mind and hope for the best, I think EA has more potential than 2k because 2k is taking massive hits because of huge losses with every product besides the NBA 2k series. Also, the studio working on Elite has to do with the FIFA or NHL series or maybe both so they have that going for them. EA Canada also developed a lifetime favorite or mine and a lot of people in MVP Baseball, and if anyone remembers what Triple Play Baseball was, and then what EA Canada did with the MVP series, I am pumped to see this years game and especially next years.

From your comment should I assume you played both games or either, yes or no, because you made alot of bold statements.

[Jazza619]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

As far as gameplay goes, the big thing i'm seeing missing is the footplanting system...is there even one??? I recently played Live 08 and that was a very good engine to build off of. Right now, all i'm seeing is guys using "Total Control" to completely abuse the laws of physics. Total control is a good concept in theory and all, but at some point you either need to restrict certain moves like fadeaways out of spins requiring the pivot foot to be lifted or get called for a travel. The latter would be much easier and more realistic.

What really hurts me is sig animations seem to have been removed for the most part. The only thing thing that is different to me is the players color and how tall they are. I'm not seeing a true implementation of real-time-physics. Weight and forward momentum is hardly being accounted for.

In all honesty, EA tried to do too much this year. Whether that was necessary or not is anybodys argument

[authentic]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

From your comment should I assume you played both games or either, yes or no, because you made alot of bold statements.

The statements have nothing to do with whether I've played the game or not. I'm just saying that some people might think the videos look awful but when they open the box and pop in the cd they might be surprised. It's no secret that 2k is taking massive hits in staff after how MLB has struggled and even their NHL series is talking about being nonexistent. The physics just look improved I think because I haven't seen any of the stupid bumps and loss of control so far, which is hated so much. I say they have more potential also because EA Canada is a very well respected studio and I believe they could make a solid NBA game.

[kingpnp]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

Pretty much. I don't agree with the sentiment that Live 10 would've been great if they just added animations. It is what I thought they'd do. The suction animations blew, but you accepted them as the game's defensive balance. They were a realistic enough representation of what should happen. You'd assume EA would just add a bunch more for various contexts so it wouldn't come off as stale. Add in more signature jumpshots and goto moves, along with a post game and some player or at least player type packages for post game and quickstrike. That would've been what I expected.

Like Momentous pointed out, Live's weaknesses were a lack of player individuality and certain fundamentals (e.g. rebounding, deflections/interceptions, post game). My biggest gripe about Live 10 wouldve been the feel, mainly on defense. Unlike other NBA games, Live didn't feel like the players respected each others presence at all. It's what made every physical element (e.g. on ball D, trying to take a charge in the paint, rebounding) of ball feel lacking in Live 10. The physics blog spelled it out exactly.

Elite is a pleasant surprise in some ways. RTP is going above and beyond just improving the contact animations by instead making every player their own entity and then using physics to govern the interactions. The puzzling thing is how they let the graphical fidelity drop so far. Look at their quick clips and it looks good, or look at EA's promo videos where they show both games and Elite is clearly the better looking one. Maybe it looks a bit better in person, but DRE & Jano saw it in person and haven't said anything to make me think thats the case.




A couple things:

Three of those are rebounds, which were practically predetermined in Live 10. Both Elite videos have shown some questionable rebounds but it is still a much better system than Live 10. Steals on sizeups were better than steals in general, but that was the defensive counter to sizeups, steals in the game were random and your hand could phase through the ball regularly.

The sizeups/setup dribbles and the steals from them are gone because they were canned. They looked great and added some much needed individuality but I'd rather have the controls as they are with different dribble styles, including signature ones for the better ballhandlers. One of Elite's biggest issues is that they didn't do this at all, which leads to the game looking generic in the animation sense. This isn't as big against the AI, since Real AI & DNA should get the players to play like themselves, but in user v. user games, you want animations there to visually separate the guys and Elite doesn't seem to have it.

I certainly think that it is pretty silly that they thought one look for dribbling was going to be OK, first year or not. Understandable if you can't signature the stars 1-to-1 ballhandling, but at least lay some groundwork for differentiation. At the least, the game should have 6 or so styles/packages each for guards forwards and centers. John Wall & Deron Williams shouldn't dribble the same, yet in Elite not only will Wall handle look similar to Deron's but to Kobe, Durant, Dirk, and Amare. The difference is only in the success and speed. Live 10 had an issue with player individuality and Elite took out what was there (other than Jumpers) without providing a replacement.

The inter-player animations (Randolph pointing) that add to realism should've stayed, I don't get those not being in.

The plays i've seen ran in Elite look pretty good, and the best part is the variability that the physics adds to screens. Add the quick plays in Elite and that is an area I see as clearly improved.




That's a joke.

Players getting beat on canned animations. The double team system. No sense of physicality in the paint or on the perimeter. Limited & generic post game. The suction collisions in the paint. The whole interception/steal system. Taking charges. The blocking and rebounding system. Loose ball retrieval. CPU AI that was lackluster. Players not playing like themselves. Shooting that many people complained felt scripted. Lack of modes. Weak Dynasty. Weak presentation. Look at Czar's 2k10/Live10 Battleground. Many of these basketball areas are addressed in Elite.

Control was great in Live 10? In a lot ways it was, but it either wasn't there or was governed by canned animations in the instances that Elite is addressing.

There seems to be a chorus about "why redo the controls when they were already good", without looking at how it's better. Just defensively, in Live 10 you had take charge (worthless and broken) hands up, block and steal (both systems suspect). In Elite, you have the same hands up, challenge with either hand, steal with either hand or block. Steal & Take charge are more useful now that the game recognizes the players running into each other and the ball is considered loose. You flat out have more defensive options. You got beat by the offensive player triggering the blow by animation in Live 09 & 10, while in Elite, that is on the defender.

On offense, it doesn't change things too much, but the logic on how to do a dribble move is more intuitive when you know the RS is your hands. The "skill" shooting is something I like in theory, and the right or left handed layups add choice that wasn't there. The gathers were in Live 10 but they weren't separate from the finish, and you had to trigger them from a certain distance. Now you can choose your gather and your finish. I like the move to a more granular control in some respects while in others I have to see if it isn't overly cerebral.

Were there weaknesses ignored? Of course, but this talk as if the issues that the physics engine and new controls address suddenly didn't exist is laughable.

Seeing the official videos, I don't like the dull look of graphics, the graphical fidelity of these animations generated on the fly is low and on top of that they aren't always realistic looking (In-air collisions in particular).

Still, if Elite animated the same as it does but retained the same overall look & graphical style as last year, I wonder if so many people would really try to say Live 10 truly looks better. Elite looks like an improvement in many basketball areas to me, albeit at the cost of animations that gave Live 10 what little individuality it did have. Even if I don't like certain choices that have been made (e.g. the dull graphical look, adding zero individuality outside of jumpers, unrealistic jumping and verticals), the overall direction of making each player a separate entity that has to be accounted for is one i'm in support of.

i agree with this man, the good and the bad about both live 10 and elite. its all true. i will say this one more time though. no reason to be ticked about wack graphics. they TOLD Us it would take a hit. they didn't sneak this on us now did they? NOPE. now why it had to take a huge hit? they didn't go into huge detail about and thats somethin REanimator and the likes should probably break down to us. now it wont make elite look any better but it will give us a chance to know "will elite 12 look better and possibly feel better as well". depending on the reasons why the graphics/animations(not canned) took such a hit.

[Greene_Flash03]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

1. Live 10's graphics is better than Elite

2. In Live 10, the off-ball movement are way more organic

3. Live 10 has better rebounding and box out.

4. I notice more sig shots/moves in Live 10 than Elite.

5. Elite has a slight advantage on dribbling animations.

[authentic]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

1. Live 10's graphics is better than Elite

2. In Live 10, the off-ball movement are way more organic

3. Live 10 has better rebounding and box out.

4. I notice more sig shots/moves in Live 10 than Elite.

5. Elite has a slight advantage on dribbling animations.

1. False. The crowds look better in elite, the player models are more defined and lost their plastic look and the animations are much smoother.
2. I'd say it's about even.
3. Yes, I would agree Live 10 has better rebounding from what I've seen in videos.
4. Moves.....you control the moves so on that fact I think that Elite might have more moves......As for sig shots, you've seen about 5 teams so far...
5. Dribbling animations are what causes moves....knowing that since I'm a basketball player I can tell you if you really do have complete control, it will be way better than Live...way better...

In no way am I saying what you are is wrong, it's just what we think from seeing these videos online that really show us nothing besides how those people play. Do people want Elite to fail?

[JWiLL02]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

What happened to Ryan Santos? Both games he worked on that I know of (Live 2005, Live 10) have been the best on that generation in the art department. The jump from 09 to 10 was HUGE. It was one promise they definitely came through on, that Santos brought the "flavor" back to the Live series.

From the looks of it there's no way he was involved in this years game. Disappointing, IMO.

[Forever_Young83]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

The biggest problem the game has is the lack of realisim. Everyone in the NBA doesn't move the same way. In this game basically all the players have the same run, dribble jump and other animations. I'm not trying to put 2K in this, but if the control is there this year, it just might be perfect becasue it has everything else.

[Forever_Young83]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

To add to my post above, if there really is no difference between kobe, D-Wade and Lebron that really kills the realisim of the game. Right now NBA Elite just doesn't have it.

[Tha_Kid]

Re: In fair Comparison - Videos inside.

What happened to Ryan Santos? Both games he worked on that I know of (Live 2005, Live 10) have been the best on that generation in the art department. The jump from 09 to 10 was HUGE. It was one promise they definitely came through on, that Santos brought the "flavor" back to the Live series.

From the looks of it there's no way he was involved in this years game. Disappointing, IMO.

Santos is in the videos on their website with Durant and he got 9th Wonder for the soundtrack.