Suction, Control, and Animations

[lebron6_james]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

man, after read all the post on this thread, im worried about elite, im so confused of what direction ea canada want for their basketball. dont get me wrong i like elite to be succesful, i give respect to reanimator & stepsix for answering, but their response just add up to my confusion. sales = controls & metametirc is a experiment right? if sales is lower this year can you make a game without sacrificing other aspect of it, like graphics or proper animation? to be honest when littman say this is a 3yr plan it sounds that you release elite piece by piece, its like this, elite 11: controls & rtp, elite 12: same as elite 11 but improved graphics & improved animation & sig shot, elite 13: elite 11 + elite 12 & total nba sim gameplay.

well if that's the case, i'll buy elite 13. honestly, the 3 yr plan is just a marketing BS. i hate to compare the other game, correct me if im wrong but they never say that they have a 3yr plan to be succesful like they having right now. they just make a game what majority of a gamer wants and the result 2million copy last year and they keep improving, just saying.

[jtdribbles25]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I really didn't feel it on offense but I felt that difference on defense I was like OMG! I can actually play perimeter D on my own this year! I haven't been able to say that in a while...

when I was able to play the day before I had a little more alone time, and just the fact that once I beat my man to the hole and went in there wasn't an animation that put the defender magically on my hip was cool. some good subtle differences .

[23]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

when I was able to play the day before I had a little more alone time, and just the fact that once I beat my man to the hole and went in there wasn't an animation that put the defender magically on my hip was cool. some good subtle differences .

To be honest with you man, that could've been eliminated in 10 with a ratings tweak but they chose not to do that.

That was my issue with guys like Fish having high 90's defensive recovery rating that made them warp right back into you once you beat them

I dont like how this stuff was never acknowledged

[rEAnimator]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

To be honest with you man, that could've been eliminated in 10 with a ratings tweak but they chose not to do that.

That was my issue with guys like Fish having high 90's defensive recovery rating that made them warp right back into you once you beat them

I dont like how this stuff was never acknowledged

No way, this had nothing to do with ratings.

It was a fundamental flaw in the way the system was designed.

It doesn't matter if you're a high rated defender or a poor rated defender, you should never be forced into an action you didn't request, whether you are on defense or offense.

The quality of the action you perform should be different, but the choice to perform that action should be left to the user if it is a user controlled player.

[Dawgthem]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

No way, this had nothing to do with ratings.

It was a fundamental flaw in the way the system was designed.

It doesn't matter if you're a high rated defender or a poor rated defender, you should never be forced into an action you didn't request, whether you are on defense or offense.

The quality of the action you perform should be different, but the choice to perform that action should be left to the user if it is a user controlled player.

Reanimator do all of the players in Elite have the same dribbling animations? or are they all different for players

[23]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

No way, this had nothing to do with ratings.

It was a fundamental flaw in the way the system was designed.

It doesn't matter if you're a high rated defender or a poor rated defender, you should never be forced into an action you didn't request, whether you are on defense or offense.

The quality of the action you perform should be different, but the choice to perform that action should be left to the user if it is a user controlled player.

I dont know anything about the design side, but unless those ratings were there for nought

I edited the entire game myself. Playmakers and Tomba have both done the same over the years.

I tested it out for weeks. It stopped those guys from magically warping back to me when I got by them by adjusting the ratings and the DNA slider ratings

This is not an opinion this is a fact. The part that sucked was the way you had to get by them, but other than that... once you got by them you were by them

...and on top of that, there was a patch released that killed off alot of good in the game as well which wasnt as bad pre patch

[Playmakers]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

No way, this had nothing to do with ratings.

It was a fundamental flaw in the way the system was designed.

It doesn't matter if you're a high rated defender or a poor rated defender, you should never be forced into an action you didn't request, whether you are on defense or offense.

The quality of the action you perform should be different, but the choice to perform that action should be left to the user if it is a user controlled player.

I disagree man....

There was a rating in the game called Recovery Defense or Helpside Defense the lower you went on the ratings the less warping you'd see out of players who were beat.

I'll have to fire up Live 10 one day this week and find out the name exactly....but you could pretty much control howmuch a guy recovers on defense with that rating.

There was another one called On Ball Defensive Effective which kinda tied into it aswell accept that rating was more a individual rating to seperate good one on one defenders like Artest from bad guys like Dirk.

But you could lower those ratings down and it would take away the magical recovery of the defenders....

There's all kinds of little tricks to the game that a ratings edit could solve accept for fast breaks last year that was a mess no matter what.....LOL!

Not sure if any of that means anything now since Elite is a different type of game from Live right?

But those ratings worked just like the vertical thing when you edit it those crazy rocket dunks go away.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I LOVED the DNA hot spots from NBA Live 08 and 09...you could set up your playbook to run plays to specific areas for the floor for people..I thought that was a tremendous addition..I was really disappointed it wasnt in '10.

I liked the go-to move conetp as well....I have no idea why it was abandoned.

That is the #1 problem with the series more then anything else, IMO

They ride something for a year or 2, then scrap it and start again.

Free style superstar, free style dribbling, quick strike dribbling, lock on D, go to moves, signature post moves (Where have yo u gone KG Dream Shake), DNA Hotspots, etc.

Id rather them just commit to a direction and DO IT, even if its something we disagree with.

At least we'd know what we were getting from year to year.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I disagree man....

There was a rating in the game called Recovery Defense or Helpside Defense the lower you went on the ratings the less warping you'd see out of players who were beat.

And 90% of those ratings were way too high.

Guys like Dirk Nowitski had help defense and recovery defense ratings in the high 70's..which was lunacy.


The number 1 thing that would come out of my mouth playing NBA Live 10 was "How the hell did(insert some stiff like Eaton Thomas, Eric Dampier, Eric Curry, whatever) get over there?"

[DaveDQ]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I think what's really hurting this year's game is the new direction, the claims of proper physics and then the community's anticipation and expectation of those things. When we start using that phrase of the year, "Real Time Physics," we are presenting the user with the idea that players will be responding in a realistic fashion, instead of a canned animation that is programmed to animate when a specific scenario takes place.

However, with Elie 11, we are seeing canned animations that seem to stand out more than ever. Take for instance the rebounding. Players seem to take off and land in a jump without any momentum or life like movement. The same holds true with a player guarding on defense. Every player has their arms in a stiff position, sort of straffing the player. When we see this, our immediate response is, "If the game has RTP, shouldn't these movements be more natural and different every time?"

Perhaps the plan is to one day be there. But as it stands, Elite 11 currently gives the impression that it doesn't house proper physics and that the traditional use of specific animations are the better choice.

[Tha_Kid]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I just want to know if the player speed in the videos is indicative of the final game. Dwight staying with Lebron and Felton getting in front of Westbrook on a fastbreak are borderline ridiculous.

[convince]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I LOVED the DNA hot spots from NBA Live 08 and 09...you could set up your playbook to run plays to specific areas for the floor for people..I thought that was a tremendous addition..I was really disappointed it wasnt in '10.

I liked the go-to move conetp as well....I have no idea why it was abandoned.

That is the #1 problem with the series more then anything else, IMO

They ride something for a year or 2, then scrap it and start again.

Free style superstar, free style dribbling, quick strike dribbling, lock on D, go to moves, signature post moves (Where have yo u gone KG Dream Shake), DNA Hotspots, etc.

Id rather them just commit to a direction and DO IT, even if its something we disagree with.

At least we'd know what we were getting from year to year.

With sales dictating the direction of the game, the lack of a consistent direction may always be an issue a few years.

I do agree what the guy said according the 3 year plan. But i think this is a plan done on purpose to show "obvious" improvement. I think what most people are delusional about, especially when it comes to sports games, is that every game plateaus. This is the "issue" the other game has. At some point you get to where you have the gameplay exactly where you want it. And all that is required from you as developer is to refine and polish. Of course every game will continue to have their issues and problems but the goal of a developer is to minimize to problems each year. That's why most anti-2K complain that the other game seems to always be the same. But that why i do agree that most games needs a hands on approach to make a conclusion. If the developers at EA get the game where they want it in three years, they will run into the same "issue" that 2K has. "How do we as a developer keep the game fresh?" This problem may be years off for Elite, i think that why the developers can boast about offering something different. I think every developer strive to have the problem, "how to keep the game fresh?", b/c this means for the most part you reach the goals of realism, simulation and visuals. Now your job is to enhanced these aspects while offering something new. When a developer gets to this point they have done their job.

[23]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

I disagree man....

There was a rating in the game called Recovery Defense or Helpside Defense the lower you went on the ratings the less warping you'd see out of players who were beat.

I'll have to fire up Live 10 one day this week and find out the name exactly....but you could pretty much control howmuch a guy recovers on defense with that rating.

There was another one called On Ball Defensive Effective which kinda tied into it aswell accept that rating was more a individual rating to seperate good one on one defenders like Artest from bad guys like Dirk.

But you could lower those ratings down and it would take away the magical recovery of the defenders....

There's all kinds of little tricks to the game that a ratings edit could solve accept for fast breaks last year that was a mess no matter what.....LOL!

Not sure if any of that means anything now since Elite is a different type of game from Live right?

But those ratings worked just like the vertical thing when you edit it those crazy rocket dunks go away.

Thats it man, Recovery Defense.. way too high

On ball defense, way too high... so essentially what you had is someone trying to drive by a player that he couldnt get by because of over exxagerrated on ball D, and if he did the Recovery Defense made sure the defender got back into position.

Its really a shame that

1. EA either didnt know this or didnt care

2. You guys edited this game and told them about this stuff for years and nobody listened after all of that work

3. It was still in this game because of big men among others were jumping from outrageous distances, which would've been in the final game had those videos not been produced.

I edited the game unfortunately by the time it was too late to try to save it but in the end, the killer patch was too much to overcome as the main proponent.

[WTF]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Not only that, but to call you completely wrong, that you don't know what you're talking about. Adjusting ratings won't fix that Dre... Come on. Wait... You did it? And have a thread about it's importance, and people all see the fix?

No... I don't believe it.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Suction, Control, and Animations

Not only that, but to call you completely wrong, that you don't know what you're talking about. Adjusting ratings won't fix that Dre... Come on. Wait... You did it? And have a thread about it's importance, and people all see the fix?

No... I don't believe it.

With all due respect, I think you're missing the point.

You can tune down the ratings to remove a feature from the game, or make it less and less likely to happen, but that doesn't change the fact that the feature was poorly implemented and removed control from the player all together.

Making the animations trigger less isn't fixing it, it's hiding it.

I would imagine that by tuning these numbers down you also made it easier to drive the lane and harder to perform a stop on defense.

Am I right?

With Elite, we've removed the suctioning without crippling the defensive player, because we don't rely on two player animations to stop the dribbler from penetrating or to keep the defender from stopping the dribbler.

It's all under user control.

Now when you tune sliders you won't be removing things from the game, you'll be altering things that are actually part of the physical simulation.

Much more realistic and much more rewarding as a player, in my personal opinion.