Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

[Court_vision]

This is NOT a flame post...

This post is soley to debate LIVE's graphics. Anyone who knows me, knows that graphics are way down on my list in terms of importance.

No discussion of gameplay needed here...we've done that to death elsewhere, and we all agree this is a good to very good game this year

Graphics ARE important though. They help create the illusion of a SIM, they help with gameplay (knowing it's Kerry Kittles about to stick a 3 point J on you and guarding him tightly / knowing it's Ricjard Jefferson and giving him the three ball.) Seeing Kenyon Martin roar after a dunk, not some freak show contestant who looks like he's got the face of a drag queen...gives you a better feel that your playing KMart and the Nets.

Let's not fool ourselves, LIVE's graphics are horrible for a 2004 video game. I have an XBox, hooked up to a big screen TV and the graphics are hardly better than my old PS1...and worse than some on the DC.

So...why are they so bad? That's what I'd like to know. I mean this in a serious manner, ie can someone explain how they can come up with the graphics below (see the Nets in LIVE...and how they look in ESPN). Is it because the style of animation makes doing faces hard? LIVE's artists (who I have no dount are top class) go for a cartoon look so they move better? EA simply has inferior design? There must be a reason...because they are just so far behind that it's not even close.

LIVE NJ Nets and how the SHOULD be looking in 2004

[JasonLin]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

I think the first video(or screenshot) released is telling you what the next one of the next game will be look like. For example, do you guys remember the first 2003 video released in E3 2002? it was a Wolves VS Lakers one, everything showed in the vid wasn't in the real game but in 2004. Do you remember the first screenshots of 2004? The YAO VS TMAC one, the graphic was so realistic just like real. So i think next year live 2005 is going to have graphic like this. Live isn't gonna have any CG, is it?

[JasonLin]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

I think the first video(or screenshot) released is telling you what the next one of the next game will be look like. For example, do you guys remember the first 2003 video released in E3 2002? it was a Wolves VS Lakers one, everything showed in the vid wasn't in the real game but in 2004. Do you remember the first screenshots of 2004? The YAO VS TMAC one, the graphic was so realistic just like real. So i think next year live 2005 is going to have graphic like this. Live isn't gonna have any CG, is it?

[JasonLin]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

I think the first video(or screenshot) released is telling you what the next one of the next game will be look like. For example, do you guys remember the first 2003 video released in E3 2002? it was a Wolves VS Lakers one, everything showed in the vid wasn't in the real game but in 2004. Do you remember the first screenshots of 2004? The YAO VS TMAC one, the graphic was so realistic just like real. So i think next year live 2005 is going to have graphic like this. Live isn't gonna have any CG, is it?

[Admiral50]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

Yeah I remember that Yao vs Tmac 'render'... that was what got me excited, until I realised it was a typical EA ploy.
Here they are on the front page of their Live website with a pic that looks like real graphics (actually there were 3 or 4 different Yao/Tmac pics) announcing a totally new graphics engine built from the ground up. Now I know graphics aren't the most important thing and as much as I may not like some gameplay elements of Live, I certainly can't stand their weak and in my opinion, ugly visuals.

And I cannot accept frame drops in most games, let alone games that are not close to pushing visual limits/boundaries.

I bought the new FIFA this week, I don't know much about soccer so can't judge the game on that, but the graphics are awesome. They seem super smooth and not missing animations like Live and they are SO crisp and hi-res looking! Live looks like an N64 game, washed out. The player models are disappointing too.

-As monkey says, leave ALL gameplay arguments out of this. I can already see people lining up to say, the gameplay is the best...it may be, but that's not the topic. I am sure there are many Live fans who think it's by far the best game out there but still want better looking visuals.

[Admiral50]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

Yeah I remember that Yao vs Tmac 'render'... that was what got me excited, until I realised it was a typical EA ploy.
Here they are on the front page of their Live website with a pic that looks like real graphics (actually there were 3 or 4 different Yao/Tmac pics) announcing a totally new graphics engine built from the ground up. Now I know graphics aren't the most important thing and as much as I may not like some gameplay elements of Live, I certainly can't stand their weak and in my opinion, ugly visuals.

And I cannot accept frame drops in most games, let alone games that are not close to pushing visual limits/boundaries.

I bought the new FIFA this week, I don't know much about soccer so can't judge the game on that, but the graphics are awesome. They seem super smooth and not missing animations like Live and they are SO crisp and hi-res looking! Live looks like an N64 game, washed out. The player models are disappointing too.

-As monkey says, leave ALL gameplay arguments out of this. I can already see people lining up to say, the gameplay is the best...it may be, but that's not the topic. I am sure there are many Live fans who think it's by far the best game out there but still want better looking visuals.

[Admiral50]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

Yeah I remember that Yao vs Tmac 'render'... that was what got me excited, until I realised it was a typical EA ploy.
Here they are on the front page of their Live website with a pic that looks like real graphics (actually there were 3 or 4 different Yao/Tmac pics) announcing a totally new graphics engine built from the ground up. Now I know graphics aren't the most important thing and as much as I may not like some gameplay elements of Live, I certainly can't stand their weak and in my opinion, ugly visuals.

And I cannot accept frame drops in most games, let alone games that are not close to pushing visual limits/boundaries.

I bought the new FIFA this week, I don't know much about soccer so can't judge the game on that, but the graphics are awesome. They seem super smooth and not missing animations like Live and they are SO crisp and hi-res looking! Live looks like an N64 game, washed out. The player models are disappointing too.

-As monkey says, leave ALL gameplay arguments out of this. I can already see people lining up to say, the gameplay is the best...it may be, but that's not the topic. I am sure there are many Live fans who think it's by far the best game out there but still want better looking visuals.

[NoleFan]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

The graphics should be improved I guess but not at the expense of another area of gameplay. I really have no problems with the graphics because I am just trying to make baskets and win games. My camera view isn't close enough for me to ogle over the graphics anyway.

The moving jerseys in ESPN for instance, a nice touch but has no effect on Made shots or won games so....

To clarify, this post is not one of those, what you say has no importance type of things it's just my opinion on the situation concerning graphics.

[NoleFan]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

The graphics should be improved I guess but not at the expense of another area of gameplay. I really have no problems with the graphics because I am just trying to make baskets and win games. My camera view isn't close enough for me to ogle over the graphics anyway.

The moving jerseys in ESPN for instance, a nice touch but has no effect on Made shots or won games so....

To clarify, this post is not one of those, what you say has no importance type of things it's just my opinion on the situation concerning graphics.

[NoleFan]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

The graphics should be improved I guess but not at the expense of another area of gameplay. I really have no problems with the graphics because I am just trying to make baskets and win games. My camera view isn't close enough for me to ogle over the graphics anyway.

The moving jerseys in ESPN for instance, a nice touch but has no effect on Made shots or won games so....

To clarify, this post is not one of those, what you say has no importance type of things it's just my opinion on the situation concerning graphics.

[wawasman]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

the graphics could certainly be better.....but in all fairness, EA actually did the right thing this year (did i say that? LOL) and focused on the gameplay

now, i admit, ive got the recessive graphics whore gene myself, but a beautiful game with no substance isnt going to get it done either....ESPN is beautiful, but just didnt work for me this year....EA is definitely below on the graphics, but i actually want to PLAY THE GAME, and theyre not bad enough to be bothersome, IMO

i apologize for the brief comparison, i know this thread isnt about that

[wawasman]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

the graphics could certainly be better.....but in all fairness, EA actually did the right thing this year (did i say that? LOL) and focused on the gameplay

now, i admit, ive got the recessive graphics whore gene myself, but a beautiful game with no substance isnt going to get it done either....ESPN is beautiful, but just didnt work for me this year....EA is definitely below on the graphics, but i actually want to PLAY THE GAME, and theyre not bad enough to be bothersome, IMO

i apologize for the brief comparison, i know this thread isnt about that

[wawasman]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

the graphics could certainly be better.....but in all fairness, EA actually did the right thing this year (did i say that? LOL) and focused on the gameplay

now, i admit, ive got the recessive graphics whore gene myself, but a beautiful game with no substance isnt going to get it done either....ESPN is beautiful, but just didnt work for me this year....EA is definitely below on the graphics, but i actually want to PLAY THE GAME, and theyre not bad enough to be bothersome, IMO

i apologize for the brief comparison, i know this thread isnt about that

[ps2king]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

I agree they can get better but dont expect anything big until PS3. Nba Live has two more years on the PS2 and in those two years I dont see much happening graphics wise maybe a little touch up here and there. IMO the graphics this year arent that bad I can deal, I mean its clear where EA speant most of their time this year >>GamePlay<< which is the most important thing to me, hey maybe next year we'll see new graphics who knows but as long as they keep making the gameplay better I dont really care.

[ps2king]

Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

I agree they can get better but dont expect anything big until PS3. Nba Live has two more years on the PS2 and in those two years I dont see much happening graphics wise maybe a little touch up here and there. IMO the graphics this year arent that bad I can deal, I mean its clear where EA speant most of their time this year >>GamePlay<< which is the most important thing to me, hey maybe next year we'll see new graphics who knows but as long as they keep making the gameplay better I dont really care.