Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

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  • Philstat
    Pro
    • Oct 2002
    • 864

    #91
    Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

    Rickster101

    I agree with you, yeah maybe I went overboard some (hahaha), but I can't help but feel EA is all about the money. I honestly feel they don't put their heart and souls in game developments such as these type of game makers: Square, Team Ninja/Tecmo, Ubi/Red Storm, Bungie, Nintendo of America, Sega AM, Visual Concepts, Blizzard, Bioware, Rockstar etc... I feel they are for the most part conceted, if it weren't for Sega putting heat on them they would do a worse job then they are doing now.

    When you are popping $50 a shot for games, you expect what the above mentioned developers give you, yeah nothing is perfect but I expect an honest effort and EA by NO MEANS did EA put their all in this product. Hell, look at the framerate issues, EASILY could have been resolved, EASILY! Not a game killer but does hurt the overall enjoyment. EA reminds me of the SCEA, Lucas Arts, CAPCOM and 3DO (among many others) developers they will do anything to shove another rehash out YEAR after YEAR. Rebuild the game engine EA, it has been three years now on the same engine, it has gotten a little long in the tooth (eh)!

    Comment

    • UNC1
      Rookie
      • Dec 2002
      • 167

      #92
      Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

      as the one poster said. Are we talking about gameplay graphics. Cause in my opinion, the players are very grainy on espn when playing far away. And that's what really counts. I don't know of too many people that play the game up closr like they show on the advertisements. If a game loses detail in graphicsto the degree espn does when it's further away from the player models then that makes it look bad-imo.

      Comment

      • UNC1
        Rookie
        • Dec 2002
        • 167

        #93
        Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

        as the one poster said. Are we talking about gameplay graphics. Cause in my opinion, the players are very grainy on espn when playing far away. And that's what really counts. I don't know of too many people that play the game up closr like they show on the advertisements. If a game loses detail in graphicsto the degree espn does when it's further away from the player models then that makes it look bad-imo.

        Comment

        • UNC1
          Rookie
          • Dec 2002
          • 167

          #94
          Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

          as the one poster said. Are we talking about gameplay graphics. Cause in my opinion, the players are very grainy on espn when playing far away. And that's what really counts. I don't know of too many people that play the game up closr like they show on the advertisements. If a game loses detail in graphicsto the degree espn does when it's further away from the player models then that makes it look bad-imo.

          Comment

          • HMcCoy
            All Star
            • Jan 2003
            • 8212

            #95
            Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
            Philstat said:
            - They need to get rid of the cartoon look and bring in a whole new level of realism, SEGA's player models DESTROY EA's it's comical the comparison!
            - Hardly any use of Bump Mapping, Mip Mapping, Anti-Aliasing, Anisotropic Filtering, Vertex type shader support etc...

            -

            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


            For the purpose of immersion, I prefer the greater number of lifelike animations on the existing player models of Live, over the polished but ridiculously stiff player models that shuffle around on 2K without a hint of inertia or momentum reflected. When the ESPN models are moving forward the bodies tilt forward. When they stop moving, they not only stop on a dime, they snap into a perfectly upright posture. Now, I like the textures and bump-mapping, but everyhting is so rigid, with so few transitional animations. Its like watching a beautiful woman with a horrendous "Handi-man" limp (Plus she's shallow and a little slow, but I digress..). Ruins the visual.

            For instance if you want to back away from a defender in Live, you still face the basket and just take steps backwards. Looks and feels very realistic. In ESPN there is no auto-facing(if their is a button to do it I must have missed it, yet another thing sacrificed from last year) so in the same example, you turn completely around and walk away, instead of just backing away. Destroys immersion.

            The infamous 2-foot jumper is graphics related also. Its still 2 points so its not gameplay, but it looks horrendous when a thunder dunk is called for and the player puts up a weak, perfect-form jumper.

            My point is that little animations like the the off-the ball defender obviously using his peripheral vision to watch the play and his assignment while holding out his hand to keep track of his man is more important to the VISUAL satisfaction I seek than more accurate faces.

            If the lack of a realistic feel is the price to pay for the ultra-crisp graphics of 2K, you can keep it.....
            Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

            Comment

            • HMcCoy
              All Star
              • Jan 2003
              • 8212

              #96
              Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
              Philstat said:
              - They need to get rid of the cartoon look and bring in a whole new level of realism, SEGA's player models DESTROY EA's it's comical the comparison!
              - Hardly any use of Bump Mapping, Mip Mapping, Anti-Aliasing, Anisotropic Filtering, Vertex type shader support etc...

              -

              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


              For the purpose of immersion, I prefer the greater number of lifelike animations on the existing player models of Live, over the polished but ridiculously stiff player models that shuffle around on 2K without a hint of inertia or momentum reflected. When the ESPN models are moving forward the bodies tilt forward. When they stop moving, they not only stop on a dime, they snap into a perfectly upright posture. Now, I like the textures and bump-mapping, but everyhting is so rigid, with so few transitional animations. Its like watching a beautiful woman with a horrendous "Handi-man" limp (Plus she's shallow and a little slow, but I digress..). Ruins the visual.

              For instance if you want to back away from a defender in Live, you still face the basket and just take steps backwards. Looks and feels very realistic. In ESPN there is no auto-facing(if their is a button to do it I must have missed it, yet another thing sacrificed from last year) so in the same example, you turn completely around and walk away, instead of just backing away. Destroys immersion.

              The infamous 2-foot jumper is graphics related also. Its still 2 points so its not gameplay, but it looks horrendous when a thunder dunk is called for and the player puts up a weak, perfect-form jumper.

              My point is that little animations like the the off-the ball defender obviously using his peripheral vision to watch the play and his assignment while holding out his hand to keep track of his man is more important to the VISUAL satisfaction I seek than more accurate faces.

              If the lack of a realistic feel is the price to pay for the ultra-crisp graphics of 2K, you can keep it.....
              Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

              Comment

              • HMcCoy
                All Star
                • Jan 2003
                • 8212

                #97
                Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                Philstat said:
                - They need to get rid of the cartoon look and bring in a whole new level of realism, SEGA's player models DESTROY EA's it's comical the comparison!
                - Hardly any use of Bump Mapping, Mip Mapping, Anti-Aliasing, Anisotropic Filtering, Vertex type shader support etc...

                -

                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


                For the purpose of immersion, I prefer the greater number of lifelike animations on the existing player models of Live, over the polished but ridiculously stiff player models that shuffle around on 2K without a hint of inertia or momentum reflected. When the ESPN models are moving forward the bodies tilt forward. When they stop moving, they not only stop on a dime, they snap into a perfectly upright posture. Now, I like the textures and bump-mapping, but everyhting is so rigid, with so few transitional animations. Its like watching a beautiful woman with a horrendous "Handi-man" limp (Plus she's shallow and a little slow, but I digress..). Ruins the visual.

                For instance if you want to back away from a defender in Live, you still face the basket and just take steps backwards. Looks and feels very realistic. In ESPN there is no auto-facing(if their is a button to do it I must have missed it, yet another thing sacrificed from last year) so in the same example, you turn completely around and walk away, instead of just backing away. Destroys immersion.

                The infamous 2-foot jumper is graphics related also. Its still 2 points so its not gameplay, but it looks horrendous when a thunder dunk is called for and the player puts up a weak, perfect-form jumper.

                My point is that little animations like the the off-the ball defender obviously using his peripheral vision to watch the play and his assignment while holding out his hand to keep track of his man is more important to the VISUAL satisfaction I seek than more accurate faces.

                If the lack of a realistic feel is the price to pay for the ultra-crisp graphics of 2K, you can keep it.....
                Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

                Comment

                • Philstat
                  Pro
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 864

                  #98
                  Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

                  HAHAHAHA, I agree animation is a HUGE part of graphics in a game and ESPN 2K4 looks somewhat rigid, but even Live 04 could use some refinement, though I agree animations can replace the sheer look value of a game and give an overall better presentation. I can't watch the finger roll layup off the glass in Live 04 enough, you know the one, you prohop and your guy puts it off the glass one or two handed (priceless)!

                  Comment

                  • Philstat
                    Pro
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 864

                    #99
                    Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

                    HAHAHAHA, I agree animation is a HUGE part of graphics in a game and ESPN 2K4 looks somewhat rigid, but even Live 04 could use some refinement, though I agree animations can replace the sheer look value of a game and give an overall better presentation. I can't watch the finger roll layup off the glass in Live 04 enough, you know the one, you prohop and your guy puts it off the glass one or two handed (priceless)!

                    Comment

                    • Philstat
                      Pro
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 864

                      #100
                      Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

                      HAHAHAHA, I agree animation is a HUGE part of graphics in a game and ESPN 2K4 looks somewhat rigid, but even Live 04 could use some refinement, though I agree animations can replace the sheer look value of a game and give an overall better presentation. I can't watch the finger roll layup off the glass in Live 04 enough, you know the one, you prohop and your guy puts it off the glass one or two handed (priceless)!

                      Comment

                      • HMcCoy
                        All Star
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 8212

                        #101
                        Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

                        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                        Philstat said:
                        HAHAHAHA, I agree animation is a HUGE part of graphics in a game and ESPN 2K4 looks somewhat rigid, but even Live 04 could use some refinement, though I agree animations can replace the sheer look value of a game and give an overall better presentation. I can't watch the finger roll layup off the glass in Live 04 enough, you know the one, you prohop and your guy puts it off the glass one or two handed (priceless)!

                        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">




                        Exactly, my friend. You stop noticing great textures after about a week, but realistic animations that aren't repetitive immerse you in a game. Isn't total immersion the real goal a developer, the whole purpose of enhanced graphics?
                        Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

                        Comment

                        • HMcCoy
                          All Star
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 8212

                          #102
                          Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

                          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                          Philstat said:
                          HAHAHAHA, I agree animation is a HUGE part of graphics in a game and ESPN 2K4 looks somewhat rigid, but even Live 04 could use some refinement, though I agree animations can replace the sheer look value of a game and give an overall better presentation. I can't watch the finger roll layup off the glass in Live 04 enough, you know the one, you prohop and your guy puts it off the glass one or two handed (priceless)!

                          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">




                          Exactly, my friend. You stop noticing great textures after about a week, but realistic animations that aren't repetitive immerse you in a game. Isn't total immersion the real goal a developer, the whole purpose of enhanced graphics?
                          Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

                          Comment

                          • HMcCoy
                            All Star
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 8212

                            #103
                            Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

                            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                            Philstat said:
                            HAHAHAHA, I agree animation is a HUGE part of graphics in a game and ESPN 2K4 looks somewhat rigid, but even Live 04 could use some refinement, though I agree animations can replace the sheer look value of a game and give an overall better presentation. I can't watch the finger roll layup off the glass in Live 04 enough, you know the one, you prohop and your guy puts it off the glass one or two handed (priceless)!

                            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">




                            Exactly, my friend. You stop noticing great textures after about a week, but realistic animations that aren't repetitive immerse you in a game. Isn't total immersion the real goal a developer, the whole purpose of enhanced graphics?
                            Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

                            Comment

                            • Rickster101
                              MVP
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 4203

                              #104
                              Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

                              Great post guys,I don't want to bash a game to hard but in reference to the 2K series,well we all Know from wayyyyyy back in the Sega days their games always looked a little too clean and yes I'd have to say "Stiff" on the animation part.

                              I haven't purchased their B-ball game yet but from my experience and what I've just read they havn't change much as far as those "Skweeky Clean" graphics go. But I'm not one to pass judgement on a game I havn't put my hands on,and I'm finding my own experience with "NBA LIVE" keeping me busy having fun.

                              As far as "stepping up the graphics" goes it might be a case of "Beauty being in the eye of the beholder"

                              In any case I'm just not seeing that much ugly just enjoying the joy of playing the game with what the graphic guys put out.

                              And for them I don't think they looked at it as work,but instead a "Labor of love" which can only be made better in their pusuit to better graphics.

                              Every year this topic is going to come around and we'll be here with some more comments on what is and what isn't,the saga will continue.
                              __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
                              GO BUCKEYES
                              Rickster101
                              The One and Only
                              "Class is now in session"
                              ____________________
                              Now currently playing:NCAA 2009 Madden 2009 EA SPORTS HEAD COACH ESPN NFL 2K5/6/7,ESPN NBA 2K8,NBA Live09

                              Comment

                              • Rickster101
                                MVP
                                • Sep 2003
                                • 4203

                                #105
                                Re: Time for LIVE to step up the graphics

                                Great post guys,I don't want to bash a game to hard but in reference to the 2K series,well we all Know from wayyyyyy back in the Sega days their games always looked a little too clean and yes I'd have to say "Stiff" on the animation part.

                                I haven't purchased their B-ball game yet but from my experience and what I've just read they havn't change much as far as those "Skweeky Clean" graphics go. But I'm not one to pass judgement on a game I havn't put my hands on,and I'm finding my own experience with "NBA LIVE" keeping me busy having fun.

                                As far as "stepping up the graphics" goes it might be a case of "Beauty being in the eye of the beholder"

                                In any case I'm just not seeing that much ugly just enjoying the joy of playing the game with what the graphic guys put out.

                                And for them I don't think they looked at it as work,but instead a "Labor of love" which can only be made better in their pusuit to better graphics.

                                Every year this topic is going to come around and we'll be here with some more comments on what is and what isn't,the saga will continue.
                                __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
                                GO BUCKEYES
                                Rickster101
                                The One and Only
                                "Class is now in session"
                                ____________________
                                Now currently playing:NCAA 2009 Madden 2009 EA SPORTS HEAD COACH ESPN NFL 2K5/6/7,ESPN NBA 2K8,NBA Live09

                                Comment

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