Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

[Ofizzle]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

I can logically explain it. I'm guessing that whoever did the offensive and defensive rebounds just looked at rebounds per 48 minutes rather than per game or how good a rebounder the guy is actually considered. That way, the game can represent good rebounders who don't get much playing time. If you look at it that way, Jahidi White actually gets more offensive rebounds per minute than Big Ben.

Ben 4.0 off boards in 38 min per game
White 1.6 in just 14 min per game

I think with all these ratings, we really don't know exactly how they play out in the game, so we might as well wait and see before complaining about it.

Jahidi is actually a really good offensive rebounder though, and if he did play many minutes, he'd probably be one of the league leaders in O-Rebounds. He's not like Mark Madsen who go's in and hustles so much, but you know in 36 minutes no one could play that way the whole time.

[laker8la]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Bottom line, Antoine Walker's 2-point FG % was higher than Kobe's 2-point FG% for the season. Walker shot a lower percentage overall because he jacks up all those threes, and at a poor percentage I might add. You guys need to see the big picture here. I believe the producers when they say that everything is based on the statistics. Try the game out first and see if you get realistic results. If you don't then change them to whatever you want. I don't think the Live team just arbitrarily throws out numbers for ratings of each player, or have favorites that they over-hype. I think there is a method to their madness, and they let you know their method, and you are still challenging it! Try it out first. I bet the sim stats will be pretty realistic, and that's what the producers were looking for.

Let's just relax and remember- IT'S A GAME!

[laker8la]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Bottom line, Antoine Walker's 2-point FG % was higher than Kobe's 2-point FG% for the season. Walker shot a lower percentage overall because he jacks up all those threes, and at a poor percentage I might add. You guys need to see the big picture here. I believe the producers when they say that everything is based on the statistics. Try the game out first and see if you get realistic results. If you don't then change them to whatever you want. I don't think the Live team just arbitrarily throws out numbers for ratings of each player, or have favorites that they over-hype. I think there is a method to their madness, and they let you know their method, and you are still challenging it! Try it out first. I bet the sim stats will be pretty realistic, and that's what the producers were looking for.

Let's just relax and remember- IT'S A GAME!

[Court_vision]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

I can logically explain it. I'm guessing that whoever did the offensive and defensive rebounds just looked at rebounds per 48 minutes rather than per game or how good a rebounder the guy is actually considered. That way, the game can represent good rebounders who don't get much playing time. If you look at it that way, Jahidi White actually gets more offensive rebounds per minute than Big Ben.

Ben 4.0 off boards in 38 min per game
White 1.6 in just 14 min per game

I think with all these ratings, we really don't know exactly how they play out in the game, so we might as well wait and see before complaining about it.

I see where your coming from...

That's insane logic though...Jahidi gets a few offensive board 'scraps' in garbage time.

Ben Wallace is THE best rebounder in the NBA for the past decade (since The Worm peaked)...

So, using LIVE's 'logic'...Jahidi White is the best ORB in the game???

Someone give Jahidi a 100 million dollar deal NOW!

I agree that 'overall' ratings can't be really commented on until we see the game.

However, specific skill ratings are pretty clear...and in that case, Jahidi is a significantly better offensive rebounder than Ben Wallace.

Luckily...we can edit pretty easily

[Court_vision]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

I can logically explain it. I'm guessing that whoever did the offensive and defensive rebounds just looked at rebounds per 48 minutes rather than per game or how good a rebounder the guy is actually considered. That way, the game can represent good rebounders who don't get much playing time. If you look at it that way, Jahidi White actually gets more offensive rebounds per minute than Big Ben.

Ben 4.0 off boards in 38 min per game
White 1.6 in just 14 min per game

I think with all these ratings, we really don't know exactly how they play out in the game, so we might as well wait and see before complaining about it.

I see where your coming from...

That's insane logic though...Jahidi gets a few offensive board 'scraps' in garbage time.

Ben Wallace is THE best rebounder in the NBA for the past decade (since The Worm peaked)...

So, using LIVE's 'logic'...Jahidi White is the best ORB in the game???

Someone give Jahidi a 100 million dollar deal NOW!

I agree that 'overall' ratings can't be really commented on until we see the game.

However, specific skill ratings are pretty clear...and in that case, Jahidi is a significantly better offensive rebounder than Ben Wallace.

Luckily...we can edit pretty easily

[SonicMage]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Okay...I'm not normally one to commment on stats...but can someone logically explain how Ben Wallace is an 80 for offensive rebounds.

And Jahidi White is rated 96.

Is there some computer generated logic to that?

Because I doubt you'd find a person on this planet who rates Jahidi White a 10% better offensive rebounder than Ben Wallace.

I am confused.

Yes, I can tell you exactly why Jahidi White has a higher offensive rebounding rating than Ben Wallace. EA Sports does generate the ratings for offensive rebounds from statistics from the previous season (just from the season, not playoffs). I know this for a fact because I created the spreadsheets myself in order to update everybodys ratings for Live 2004. Offensive rebound rating is based on offensive rebounds per minute (or you can say per 48 minutes, it doesnt matter since 48 is a constant). Jahidi White had 5.4 off rebounds per 48 and Ben Wallace had 5.1 per 48 last year, so theres your explanation. It works out because Big Ben gets many more minutes than Jahidi does. The only problem some people have with using these statistics to generate ratings is that it doesnt account for who the opposing player was during a given night. Jahidi couldve been playing against a bunch of scrub bench players, we dont know.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw the explanations posted above. Im sick so Im half out of it here. Anyways, EA Sports generates ratings using per minute stats for off and def rebounds, steals, assists, and blocks. FT rating is based on the Free throw percentage from the previous season exactly. 75% FT shooter gets a rating of 75. FG rating and Primacy rating are a little bit tougher to figure out. Primacy is very closely based on FG made per minute, though not exactly. FG rating I havent really been able to figure out, but it seems as though it is measured by how well a player shoots within their shooting range. Last year, Shaq was the highest with 99 FG rating and then the next highest were guys like Ray Allen and Nowitzki in the lower 90's.

[SonicMage]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Okay...I'm not normally one to commment on stats...but can someone logically explain how Ben Wallace is an 80 for offensive rebounds.

And Jahidi White is rated 96.

Is there some computer generated logic to that?

Because I doubt you'd find a person on this planet who rates Jahidi White a 10% better offensive rebounder than Ben Wallace.

I am confused.

Yes, I can tell you exactly why Jahidi White has a higher offensive rebounding rating than Ben Wallace. EA Sports does generate the ratings for offensive rebounds from statistics from the previous season (just from the season, not playoffs). I know this for a fact because I created the spreadsheets myself in order to update everybodys ratings for Live 2004. Offensive rebound rating is based on offensive rebounds per minute (or you can say per 48 minutes, it doesnt matter since 48 is a constant). Jahidi White had 5.4 off rebounds per 48 and Ben Wallace had 5.1 per 48 last year, so theres your explanation. It works out because Big Ben gets many more minutes than Jahidi does. The only problem some people have with using these statistics to generate ratings is that it doesnt account for who the opposing player was during a given night. Jahidi couldve been playing against a bunch of scrub bench players, we dont know.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw the explanations posted above. Im sick so Im half out of it here. Anyways, EA Sports generates ratings using per minute stats for off and def rebounds, steals, assists, and blocks. FT rating is based on the Free throw percentage from the previous season exactly. 75% FT shooter gets a rating of 75. FG rating and Primacy rating are a little bit tougher to figure out. Primacy is very closely based on FG made per minute, though not exactly. FG rating I havent really been able to figure out, but it seems as though it is measured by how well a player shoots within their shooting range. Last year, Shaq was the highest with 99 FG rating and then the next highest were guys like Ray Allen and Nowitzki in the lower 90's.

[nikolaihunt]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Bottom line, Antoine Walker's 2-point FG % was higher than Kobe's 2-point FG% for the season. Walker shot a lower percentage overall because he jacks up all those threes, and at a poor percentage I might add. You guys need to see the big picture here.

Actually, if you look at these stats at 82games.com which actually analyzes possessions:

Kobe

http://www.82games.com/03LAL6A.HTM

Toine

http://www.82games.com/03DAL9A.HTM

it suggests that Kobe shot better than Toine on both jumpers and close in, the only thing Toine did better was tip ins. And this makes sense looking at their FG%.

And it makes sense through observation. Kobe takes and makes more difficult shots that Walker, and he drew more defensive pressure last season on the Lakers than Walker did on the Mavs (Walker was usually their fourth or fifth scoring threat on the floor).

So if the ratings don't agree with the more accurate stats out there, and they don't agree with my observations, then you can see why I presume they are either derived from some flawed assumptions and/or are arbitrary.

[nikolaihunt]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Bottom line, Antoine Walker's 2-point FG % was higher than Kobe's 2-point FG% for the season. Walker shot a lower percentage overall because he jacks up all those threes, and at a poor percentage I might add. You guys need to see the big picture here.

Actually, if you look at these stats at 82games.com which actually analyzes possessions:

Kobe

http://www.82games.com/03LAL6A.HTM

Toine

http://www.82games.com/03DAL9A.HTM

it suggests that Kobe shot better than Toine on both jumpers and close in, the only thing Toine did better was tip ins. And this makes sense looking at their FG%.

And it makes sense through observation. Kobe takes and makes more difficult shots that Walker, and he drew more defensive pressure last season on the Lakers than Walker did on the Mavs (Walker was usually their fourth or fifth scoring threat on the floor).

So if the ratings don't agree with the more accurate stats out there, and they don't agree with my observations, then you can see why I presume they are either derived from some flawed assumptions and/or are arbitrary.

[nikolaihunt]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Yes, I can tell you exactly why Jahidi White has a higher offensive rebounding rating than Ben Wallace. EA Sports does generate the ratings for offensive rebounds from statistics from the previous season (just from the season, not playoffs). I know this for a fact because I created the spreadsheets myself in order to update everybodys ratings for Live 2004. Offensive rebound rating is based on offensive rebounds per minute (or you can say per 48 minutes, it doesnt matter since 48 is a constant). Jahidi White had 5.4 off rebounds per 48 and Ben Wallace had 5.1 per 48 last year, so theres your explanation. It works out because Big Ben gets many more minutes than Jahidi does. The only problem some people have with using these statistics to generate ratings is that it doesnt account for who the opposing player was during a given night. Jahidi couldve been playing against a bunch of scrub bench players, we dont know.

The per minutes stats also don't account for other rebounders on the team, the pace of the team (i.e. how many possesions they use in a game), and in general the % of rebounds available in the games the player played in.

In the Basketball Prospectus books, there is a stat called rebound rate which calculates the % of rebounds the player grabbed of the available total rebounds when he was on the court (accounting for other players on the court and the pace).

Looking in the Prospectus from two years ago that I have next to me, White was actually 2nd in the league in rebound rate, so I guess this rating might actually have some merit.

[nikolaihunt]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Yes, I can tell you exactly why Jahidi White has a higher offensive rebounding rating than Ben Wallace. EA Sports does generate the ratings for offensive rebounds from statistics from the previous season (just from the season, not playoffs). I know this for a fact because I created the spreadsheets myself in order to update everybodys ratings for Live 2004. Offensive rebound rating is based on offensive rebounds per minute (or you can say per 48 minutes, it doesnt matter since 48 is a constant). Jahidi White had 5.4 off rebounds per 48 and Ben Wallace had 5.1 per 48 last year, so theres your explanation. It works out because Big Ben gets many more minutes than Jahidi does. The only problem some people have with using these statistics to generate ratings is that it doesnt account for who the opposing player was during a given night. Jahidi couldve been playing against a bunch of scrub bench players, we dont know.

The per minutes stats also don't account for other rebounders on the team, the pace of the team (i.e. how many possesions they use in a game), and in general the % of rebounds available in the games the player played in.

In the Basketball Prospectus books, there is a stat called rebound rate which calculates the % of rebounds the player grabbed of the available total rebounds when he was on the court (accounting for other players on the court and the pace).

Looking in the Prospectus from two years ago that I have next to me, White was actually 2nd in the league in rebound rate, so I guess this rating might actually have some merit.

[Miles_Yuhas]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Here's the thing with a. Walker and Kobe. In Live the 3pt rating tells what the range of the player is, the better the 3pt. rating the farther out the player can shoot. I think that its for every +10 3pt. rating the player gets 2 more feet of range. Now if i remember correcting Antoine's FG is a 81 and his 3 is 50 and Kobe's FG is in the 70's and his three is in the 70's or low 80's. So, Kobe will be able to shoot the 18 footer much better than Walker. Hope that clears it up for everyone.

[Miles_Yuhas]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Here's the thing with a. Walker and Kobe. In Live the 3pt rating tells what the range of the player is, the better the 3pt. rating the farther out the player can shoot. I think that its for every +10 3pt. rating the player gets 2 more feet of range. Now if i remember correcting Antoine's FG is a 81 and his 3 is 50 and Kobe's FG is in the 70's and his three is in the 70's or low 80's. So, Kobe will be able to shoot the 18 footer much better than Walker. Hope that clears it up for everyone.

[jfsolo]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Just throwing this out there for consideration Maybe J. Whites astromomicially high Oreb rating is mitigated by his 40 stamina rating(vs. Bens 89 I believe.) I haven't looked at most of the ratings, but maybe(as many others have said) they are balanced out by each other. You never know, maybe if Jahidi was 40 pounds lighter he would be the best Orebounder in the league.

[jfsolo]

Re: Anyone else a little irked by the player attributes at IGN?

Just throwing this out there for consideration Maybe J. Whites astromomicially high Oreb rating is mitigated by his 40 stamina rating(vs. Bens 89 I believe.) I haven't looked at most of the ratings, but maybe(as many others have said) they are balanced out by each other. You never know, maybe if Jahidi was 40 pounds lighter he would be the best Orebounder in the league.