Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

[WTF]

Re: Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

Do you know if they did a new scan for Kevin Love by chance?

Yeah it's different from last year by quite a bit. Much better looking iirc.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

Trailer really didn't do much for me. Live has always been great with colors, but I'm not going to be able to truly judge their animation movements until I see player movements in non-theatrical lighting.

My biggest concern is how this "real player motion" that EA has been touting will influence NBA Live because when it comes to Madden, basic simple movements like walking and throwing the football does not even resemble realistic human movement. It's a shame because Madden's talking point this year is "Real Player Motion." (check out two videos in spoiler tag below).

NBA Live player models has solid body proportions, but one thing that is bothering me with NBA Live's player models are their knees/back of their knees. It's got a curvature to it. It doesn't straighten out like it should.

This year, I'm highly considering Live -- as long as the control schemes (off-ball controls, etc) allow me to do what I want on the court.

Madden Walking and Throwing motion - Is this suppose to involve "real player motion"?

Spoiler

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pZJ-zbOzvs0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/00fxSMsODb0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Calvenn]

Re: Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

Trailer really didn't do much for me. Live has always been great with colors, but I'm not going to be able to truly judge their animation movements until I see player movements in non-theatrical lighting.

My biggest concern is how this "real player motion" that EA has been touting will influence NBA Live because when it comes to Madden, basic simple movements like walking and throwing the football does not even resemble realistic human movement. It's a shame because Madden's talking point this year is "Real Player Motion." (check out two videos in spoiler tag below).

NBA Live player models has solid body proportions, but one thing that is bothering me with NBA Live's player models are their knees/back of their knees. It's got a curvature to it. It doesn't straighten out like it should.

This year, I'm highly considering Live -- as long as the control schemes (off-ball controls, etc) allow me to do what I want on the court.

Madden Walking and Throwing motion - Is this suppose to involve "real player motion"?

Spoiler

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pZJ-zbOzvs0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/00fxSMsODb0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In Madden 19 RPM was incorporated for the first time, as you adroitly outlined (thanks for the reference footage btw). However, I did not hear any talk pertaining to the reconstruction of player skeletons for Madden 19 as I have for Live 19. It is my understanding that the player model skeletal system dictates posture. Think back to the awkward protruding chest, depressed shoulders and yes, bent knee posture exhibited in Live 18. From the footage I have seen thus far of Live 19, posture and movement appears more natural in comparison. To what degree? I say we will find out in a couple of weeks!

Having said that, I do believe they should develop a few more skeletons to accommodate a wider variety of body types.

[MarkWilliam]

Re: Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

Man I am as keen as anyone to now see what it looks like in actual NBA arenas. Even The One footage caught my eye after the EA Play average stuff. It appeared to look a lot nicer IMO.

The signature styles look very good too from the later vids.

Based on what WTF is saying, I am eager to see what it looks like from a broadcast cam now that we're further along in the dev cycle.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

I take it the footage from the YouTubers was before the cosmetic adjustments?

It looked good but it didn’t look like this .

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

In Madden 19 RPM was incorporated for the first time, as you adroitly outlined (thanks for the reference footage btw). However, I did not hear any talk pertaining to the reconstruction of player skeletons for Madden 19 as I have for Live 19. It is my understanding that the player model skeletal system dictates posture. Think back to the awkward protruding chest, depressed shoulders and yes, bent knee posture exhibited in Live 18. From the footage I have seen thus far of Live 19, posture and movement appears more natural in comparison. To what degree? I say we will find out in a couple of weeks!

Having said that, I do believe they should develop a few more skeletons to accommodate a wider variety of body types.

What do you mean by developing more skeletons? Is that going to drastically change player posture? Because from my understanding, posture is dictated entirely by the 3D animator and his/her ability to manipulate the body's skeletal posture so it looks realistic.

Continued response in spoiler tag with footage and still images. Spoiler tag used to save thread real estate.

Spoiler

If it's motion capture, then it's up to the actors to perform in a realistic manner. If the actors' half-effort it or is handheld through the entire process, it makes things not believable or more appropriately term, not authentic. There's no in-game adrenaline rush during motion capture sessions and that's killing true immersive animations. The actors' head needs to be "in the game" so to speak.

I don't know the in's and out's of "Real Player Motion," but isn't it just another form of animation? Anyone have any documentation of this "new" technology? But the basic premise to creating "animation" should still the same regardless of the newest catch phrase.

In other words, it should truly come down to the artists themselves. They already have all the necessary tools now and in prior years to create authentic looking animations. There's no "need" for any new catch-phrase or new tech so to speak.

Regardless, I'm VERY excited to see what's really in store for NBA Live 19's demo. The screenshots gives off the impression that I will be seeing realistically player models. I just would finally like to see the same with the animations department. Hopefully they're the most "connected" in franchise history.


3D Manipulation:

Spoiler

This is essentially how Madden or NBA Live player models walked (one pose)


A more accurate representation during the walk stride; it's simply a matter of the animator positioning the limbs into a proper, more biomechanically correct position.


Essentially how Madden or NBA Live player models stand


A more accurate representation of a standing straight vertical pose. This is using the generic blender software and it took less than a second to convert the unorthodox Madden/Live pose to a more accurate pose.

3D Motion Capture:

Spoiler

MLB - Aaron Judge in studio motion capture. Notice how poorly execute the motion captures are because he was constantly getting directed of what to do in the entire process. None of it looked authentic despite Aaron Judge himself doing the motion captures. Not the check swings, not the stride and swing stoppage animations, etc.

Aaron Judge - In studio motion capture @16:58 Swing. He's imaging a baseball, imaging an opposing pitcher, but his "head isn't really in it." But watch the entire video. Skip forward to see motion capture moments.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_MzaRbxbxno" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Aaron Judge - MLB real footage.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Gw3pFHMM9fk" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

EDIT: One thing that I would like to add to give readers a real sense of why EA's Madden animations simply aren't realistic animations using the concept of "Anticipation." Hopefully this does not also afflict NBA Live 19, but if the EA uses the same tactic approach to doing animations, then unfortunately, we're going to have to wait longer. I'm currently using Madden as an example because that's the only thing we can go by right now.

Two videos:
(1) Anticipation concept - Receiver off the blocks
(2) Anticipation - one of the 12 Principles of realistic animations.

Spoiler

Madden's either does not use or does not properly use the concept of "anticipation," and in the case of receivers coming off the block, Madden completely eliminates the animation concept "anticipation."

When the receiver gets off the blocks, he is suppose to squat down a bit (i.e. anticipation) before he burst out. In Madden, the receiver just completely bolts out of the gate with absolutely no anticipation.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_YIWNCjozmE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Anticipation - from the 12 principles of animations
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/F8OtE60T8yU" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Calvenn]

Re: Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

What do you mean by developing more skeletons? Is that going to drastically change player posture? Because from my understanding, posture is dictated entirely by the 3D animator and his/her ability to manipulate the body's skeletal posture so it looks realistic.

Continued response in spoiler tag with footage and still images. Spoiler tag used to save thread real estate.

Spoiler

If it's motion capture, then it's up to the actors to perform in a realistic manner. If the actors' half-effort it or is handheld through the entire process, it makes things not believable or more appropriately term, not authentic. There's no in-game adrenaline rush during motion capture sessions and that's killing true immersive animations. The actors' head needs to be "in the game" so to speak.

I don't know the in's and out's of "Real Player Motion," but isn't it just another form of animation? Anyone have any documentation of this "new" technology? But the basic premise to creating "animation" should still the same regardless of the newest catch phrase.

In other words, it should truly come down to the artists themselves. They already have all the necessary tools now and in prior years to create authentic looking animations. There's no "need" for any new catch-phrase or new tech so to speak.

Regardless, I'm VERY excited to see what's really in store for NBA Live 19's demo. The screenshots gives off the impression that I will be seeing realistically player models. I just would finally like to see the same with the animations department. Hopefully they're the most "connected" in franchise history.


3D Manipulation:

Spoiler

This is essentially how Madden or NBA Live player models walked (one pose)


A more accurate representation during the walk stride; it's simply a matter of the animator positioning the limbs into a proper, more biomechanically correct position.


Essentially how Madden or NBA Live player models stand


A more accurate representation of a standing straight vertical pose. This is using the generic blender software and it took less than a second to convert the unorthodox Madden/Live pose to a more accurate pose.

3D Motion Capture:

Spoiler

MLB - Aaron Judge in studio motion capture. Notice how poorly execute the motion captures are because he was constantly getting directed of what to do in the entire process. None of it looked authentic despite Aaron Judge himself doing the motion captures. Not the check swings, not the stride and swing stoppage animations, etc.

Aaron Judge - In studio motion capture @16:58 Swing. He's imaging a baseball, imaging an opposing pitcher, but his "head isn't really in it." But watch the entire video. Skip forward to see motion capture moments.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_MzaRbxbxno" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Aaron Judge - MLB real footage.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Gw3pFHMM9fk" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

EDIT: One thing that I would like to add to give readers a real sense of why EA's Madden animations simply aren't realistic animations using the concept of "Anticipation." Hopefully this does not also afflict NBA Live 19, but if the EA uses the same tactic approach to doing animations, then unfortunately, we're going to have to wait longer. I'm currently using Madden as an example because that's the only thing we can go by right now.

Two videos:
(1) Anticipation concept - Receiver off the blocks
(2) Anticipation - one of the 12 Principles of realistic animations.

Spoiler

Madden's either does not use or does not properly use the concept of "anticipation," and in the case of receivers coming off the block, Madden completely eliminates the animation concept "anticipation."

When the receiver gets off the blocks, he is suppose to squat down a bit (i.e. anticipation) before he burst out. In Madden, the receiver just completely bolts out of the gate with absolutely no anticipation.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_YIWNCjozmE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Anticipation - from the 12 principles of animations
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/F8OtE60T8yU" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Let's see how the demo looks and go from there.

[Charles Bliss]

Re: Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

Trailer really didn't do much for me. Live has always been great with colors, but I'm not going to be able to truly judge their animation movements until I see player movements in non-theatrical lighting.

My biggest concern is how this "real player motion" that EA has been touting will influence NBA Live because when it comes to Madden, basic simple movements like walking and throwing the football does not even resemble realistic human movement. It's a shame because Madden's talking point this year is "Real Player Motion." (check out two videos in spoiler tag below).

NBA Live player models has solid body proportions, but one thing that is bothering me with NBA Live's player models are their knees/back of their knees. It's got a curvature to it. It doesn't straighten out like it should.

This year, I'm highly considering Live -- as long as the control schemes (off-ball controls, etc) allow me to do what I want on the court.

Madden Walking and Throwing motion - Is this suppose to involve "real player motion"?

Spoiler

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pZJ-zbOzvs0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/00fxSMsODb0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is a bad representation of RPM imo, it doesn't tell me or the casual player what exactly it is and how it affects the players this year. I would prefer if they did a breakdown video blog, showing examples of players walking, running, jumping, shooting, dribbling etc from last year's game and just go in depth about how RPM has made these changes better for Live 19. I'm not getting much here, but another Live 14 E3 trailer with Kyrie Irving and DeAndre Jordan.

[Behindshadows]

Re: Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

Never forget

https://youtu.be/NLSKmyZWPXs?t=18s

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Mini trailer around 1:02 mark

Never forget

https://youtu.be/NLSKmyZWPXs?t=18s

[emoji38] [emoji38]

Completely forgot about this. Reminds me of the Madden 06 trailer. Hopefully EA doesnt try to pull a fast one for next gen.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app