What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by rsnomar05 -
Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by sweettouchaverage over 30 in his career
six rings with a horrible cast (except pippen)
nobody in the league could even contain him
I can name a million things but it will take to long. he was just great if you have seen him play from the time he cam into the league you would just know. he was an all around player he was like kobe/vince/mcgrady/lebron all combined and he could play d.
I think if kobe can do what he's doing now for a couple of years and win a title he would be mentioned as great same thing for lebron
I'm just stating my opinion.
Nobody in the league could contain him EXCEPT Joe Dumars. Kobe is like Jordan in the sense that he will get his 30+ a night.Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by Mo_MagicYeah, Dennis Rodman was horrible... yup... [/sarcasm]
Nobody in the league could contain him EXCEPT Joe Dumars. Kobe is like Jordan in the sense that he will get his 30+ a night.
Yeah, Dumars was so adept at containing Jordan that they didnt need anyone else to rotate over off of their man to hack him when he was in the lane.Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by rsnomar05Red was not the difference in the Wilt vs. Russell battles. Red didn't get Russell 50 rebounds. Red was the difference in the overall TEAM battles. That's like saying Tom Brady isn't better than Drew Brees because Brady has Belicek as coach. As catcatch22 pointed out, Wilt had teammates that could step up. Sure, Russell had better men on the floor around him, but that still doesn't explain why Russell would always out-rebound Wilt.Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by Mo_MagicYeah, Dennis Rodman was horrible... yup... [/sarcasm]
Nobody in the league could contain him EXCEPT Joe Dumars. Kobe is like Jordan in the sense that he will get his 30+ a night.
Show you how much you know. Dumars NEVER contained Jordan or even came close to stopping MJ. Dumars had a LOT of help. People love to forget this little fact.
When MJ beat Dumars off the dribble, he always had Rodman and Salley to back him up, two of the Pistons best defensive players. And when he got past them, he had Laimbeer and Mahorn waiting to thug him up.
Hell, before any of that, Dumars had Thomas or Johnson leaving their man to help doubleteam MJ.Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
When a player can lead the league in scoring, rebounding and assists in his career. I can't see how anyone can top that. Chamberlain led the league in scoring many times and it wasn't even close. However your arguments was it was a different era then fine I'll give you that. He led the league in rebounding and yeah I can attest the rules and the time he played helped inflate those stats, but much more shocking as a center he lead the league in ASSISTS! Now name a player now or in present day who could accomplish all those feats. Is chamberlain better than jordan as a winner? no but as a pure athletical basketball player no one could do all the things chamberlain could do as one man. The closest player who somewhat resembles a smidgen of chamberlain's skill is kg yet he does not have the passing skill nor the scoring skill chamberlain possessed. There are alot of guys who were good at winning games or plyaing well to win. However I am talking about pure basketball skill and a total single handed dominace of one player and no one can hold a candle to chamberlain in that respect. Now if chamberlain had better teammates over his career like russell did maybe he would have passed more and won more games who knows. Imagine if you switched the players and put Russell on Chamberlain's teams and put Chamberlain on the celtic teams and see if russell beat would chamberlain then?Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by EWRMETSThat's the worst analogy I ever saw. Wilt is still considered by most to be better than Russell even with all of Bill's championships. Nobody thinks Brees is as good as Brady.
And Wilt is not considered to be better. If so, then why did Russell win the award for "Greatest Player in the History of the NBA" in 1974 and again in 1980?Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by glucklichNegative. Russells value is tied to team success. And you are incorrect about Wilts teammates. Again, you are underestimating the impact of Red Auerbach. He was Jerry West and Phil Jackson in one package except he was probably an even better GM than West.
And a coach can only do so much. Yes, Red was a tremendous coach, but he was not the sole reason for their championships, just like Phil Jackson was not the sole reason for the Laker's championships.Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by rsnomar05If his value is tied to team success, that means he is GOAT. The team's success was 11 championships in 13 years. If his value is tied to that success, there is no question about who is GOAT.
And a coach can only do so much. Yes, Red was a tremendous coach, but he was not the sole reason for their championships, just like Phil Jackson was not the sole reason for the Laker's championships.Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by glucklichI guess that would mean that every other player on a significant number of those teams would also be the best ever at their position then. Sorry, thats pure craziness.__________________________________________________ ____
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by rsnomar05If his value is tied to team success, that means he is GOAT. The team's success was 11 championships in 13 years. If his value is tied to that success, there is no question about who is GOAT.
And a coach can only do so much. Yes, Red was a tremendous coach, but he was not the sole reason for their championships, just like Phil Jackson was not the sole reason for the Laker's championships.
You wrote that Russell's value is tied to team success. If that were the case, Russell would be GOAT. My post was an attempt to refute your point, but I guess it didn't come across that way (which would mean I failed).Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by rsnomar05Would Russell have gotten the Nike deal were he playing today? He was the league's most popular player, so probably. But he isn't alive today, so we just don't know. So you can't compare the two based on marketability.Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
I know it may not matter 15 pages later...but does anybody remember the pre-title Jordan who was basically triple-teamed everynight but still shot over 50%, and 30-plus a game. What about '87 with the 37.1 ppg, or '88 with the average of 35ppg, 8 ast, and 8 rbs per game? What about the Pippen migraine? What about Brad Sellers? what about the Flu Game? What about 6 straight titles in 6 straight FULL seasons? What about NOT giving him the MVP because he won it so many times before (Malone '97)? What about before his first comeback he averaged 32.1ppg for his career with over 50% for a SHOOTING GUARD? What about at age 40+ he still averaged over 20 for a SHOOTING GUARD, and not a center who stood in and around the basket? What about the fact that he played with only one true HOF and that was mainly due to HIS efforts (quick, someone name a big game where Pippen stepped up and played a COMPLETE game by LEADING the team). I'm finished...Comment
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Re: What exactly did MJ do to make people consider him the GOAT?
Originally posted by marqI know it may not matter 15 pages later...but does anybody remember the pre-title Jordan who was basically triple-teamed everynight but still shot over 50%, and 30-plus a game. What about '87 with the 37.1 ppg, or '88 with the average of 35ppg, 8 ast, and 8 rbs per game? What about the Pippen migraine? What about Brad Sellers? what about the Flu Game? What about 6 straight titles in 6 straight FULL seasons? What about NOT giving him the MVP because he won it so many times before (Malone '97)? What about before his first comeback he averaged 32.1ppg for his career with over 50% for a SHOOTING GUARD? What about at age 40+ he still averaged over 20 for a SHOOTING GUARD, and not a center who stood in and around the basket? What about the fact that he played with only one true HOF and that was mainly due to HIS efforts (quick, someone name a big game where Pippen stepped up and played a COMPLETE game by LEADING the team). I'm finished...Comment
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