Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

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  • X*Cell
    Collab: xcellnoah@gmail
    • Sep 2002
    • 8107

    #31
    Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

    Originally posted by Vince
    BTW, vs the Spurs last night, 27 pts, 6 dimes, 1 turn. 12-17 shooting 4-5 from 3. Rest of the team didn't hit a thing.

    Having TJ back is better for Jose, because he doesn't have to pace himself as much knowing he won't have Darrick Martin or Juan Dixon backing him up.
    they need to trade TJ with the emergence of Calderon. TJ Ford shoots way too much for the good of that team. He should be dealt before the deadline if the Raps wanna make a serious run.
    SAN ANTONIO SPURS

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    • SPTO
      binging
      • Feb 2003
      • 68046

      #32
      Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

      Originally posted by X*Cell
      they need to trade TJ with the emergence of Calderon. TJ Ford shoots way too much for the good of that team. He should be dealt before the deadline if the Raps wanna make a serious run.
      No they shouldn't. TJ gives the Raptors a different look when he's on the floor. Yes he tends to shoot a bit much at times but his speed and hustle usually changes the tempo for the better. Calderon and TJ are interchangeable parts that are like 1A and 1B.

      I'm not against a trade if there's something very good in return.


      As for Gil....he needs to shut up and watch some tape. Calderon is the most talked about Raptor among coaches and broadcasters according to Chuck Swirsky who's one of the more connected guys in the NBA world.
      Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

      "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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      • ex carrabba fan
        I'll thank him for you
        • Oct 2004
        • 32744

        #33
        Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

        Originally posted by SPTO
        No they shouldn't. TJ gives the Raptors a different look when he's on the floor. Yes he tends to shoot a bit much at times but his speed and hustle usually changes the tempo for the better. Calderon and TJ are interchangeable parts that are like 1A and 1B.

        I'm not against a trade if there's something very good in return.


        As for Gil....he needs to shut up and watch some tape. Calderon is the most talked about Raptor among coaches and broadcasters according to Chuck Swirsky who's one of the more connected guys in the NBA world.
        I would be hesitant to trade as well.. but are you guys really going to win with that set up. A conflict seems inevitable. In crunch time who does the team look to? Both guys are starters.. I don't see how that can be productive long term.

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        • SPTO
          binging
          • Feb 2003
          • 68046

          #34
          Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

          Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
          I would be hesitant to trade as well.. but are you guys really going to win with that set up. A conflict seems inevitable. In crunch time who does the team look to? Both guys are starters.. I don't see how that can be productive long term.
          That's the big question but it seems to work right now. As far as I know both guys pull for each other and help each other out a lot. I think this set up can last at least another season or two. Personally I think Calderon will be the eventual winner in this whole thing no matter what happens because he's going to be a helluva PG for the Raps or any other team he's on.
          Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

          "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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          • X*Cell
            Collab: xcellnoah@gmail
            • Sep 2002
            • 8107

            #35
            Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

            Originally posted by SPTO
            That's the big question but it seems to work right now. As far as I know both guys pull for each other and help each other out a lot. I think this set up can last at least another season or two. Personally I think Calderon will be the eventual winner in this whole thing no matter what happens because he's going to be a helluva PG for the Raps or any other team he's on.
            but that's what I'm saying... I think TJ Ford is a fantastic player and have been focusing on his game since his days at Texas, so that's besides the point. The Raptors need to be better than 27-23 in a weak Eastern Conference. Having two universal starters (by universal, I mean they can start for any team in this league) platoon at one position is ludicrous.

            The Raptors are far too good of a shooting team to have that record. They need to pawn TJ Ford for some very-much-needed rebounding and if you can kill 2 birds with one stone, get a rebounding shot-blocker. This would solve everything.
            SAN ANTONIO SPURS

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            • ryanm1058123
              Banned
              • Jan 2004
              • 3628

              #36
              Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

              The problem with Calderon is he dribbles around for 18 seconds and then gets the ball to a Bosh or a perimeter player and they shoot a contested 17 footer. Nothing is ever in the paint with the Raptors. TJ Ford is far better (if he stays healthy) because he can get to the basket at will unlike Calderon.

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              • SPTO
                binging
                • Feb 2003
                • 68046

                #37
                Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

                Calderon also had a problem where he wouldn't take shots when he could've. He's gotten better at that lately though.
                Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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                • chance
                  MVP
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 2219

                  #38
                  Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

                  Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                  I would be hesitant to trade as well.. but are you guys really going to win with that set up. A conflict seems inevitable. In crunch time who does the team look to? Both guys are starters.. I don't see how that can be productive long term.
                  They can both play on the court at the same time so thats a plus and Chris Childs and Charlie Ward did it.
                  I kno so much about the NBA I should work 4 ESPN!!!!

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                  • X*Cell
                    Collab: xcellnoah@gmail
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 8107

                    #39
                    Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

                    Originally posted by chance
                    They can both play on the court at the same time so thats a plus and Chris Childs and Charlie Ward did it.
                    good point.

                    Originally posted by ryanm1058123
                    The problem with Calderon is he dribbles around for 18 seconds and then gets the ball to a Bosh or a perimeter player and they shoot a contested 17 footer. Nothing is ever in the paint with the Raptors. TJ Ford is far better (if he stays healthy) because he can get to the basket at will unlike Calderon.
                    yet the Raptors lead the league in 3pt % and are among the top-ranks in FG %, so I don't see that as a problem at all.
                    SAN ANTONIO SPURS

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                    • ex carrabba fan
                      I'll thank him for you
                      • Oct 2004
                      • 32744

                      #40
                      Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

                      Originally posted by chance
                      They can both play on the court at the same time so thats a plus and Chris Childs and Charlie Ward did it.
                      I don't know.. sure it'd be doable, I wouldn't be a fan of that if I'm a Rap fan. That's extremely small, and seems like a liability defensively.

                      Comment

                      • ryanm1058123
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 3628

                        #41
                        Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

                        Originally posted by X*Cell
                        good point.



                        yet the Raptors lead the league in 3pt % and are among the top-ranks in FG %, so I don't see that as a problem at all.
                        ya thats what happens when you have a lot of good jumpshooters like the raptors do. you make a lot of shots on certain nights. but then there are nights when you need somebody who can get to the basket easily and thats where the Raptors get into trouble. Everything is a jumpshot.

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                        • yucatan
                          Rookie
                          • Jan 2005
                          • 377

                          #42
                          Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

                          Originally posted by ryanm1058123
                          The problem with Calderon is he dribbles around for 18 seconds and then gets the ball to a Bosh or a perimeter player and they shoot a contested 17 footer. Nothing is ever in the paint with the Raptors. TJ Ford is far better (if he stays healthy) because he can get to the basket at will unlike Calderon.
                          I'm not sure how many Raptor games you've watched, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. First of all, practically nobody aside from Carlos Delfino shoots contested shots. In fact, that's one of the criticisms of a guy like Jason Kapono. That he doesn't trust his quick release enough and will only shoot if wide open. You don't shoot 42% from 3 (almost a full 4% more than the 2nd place team) by chucking up contested shots.

                          http://www.82games.com/0708/0708TOR3.HTM indicates that 63% of the Raptors shots come within the first 15 seconds of the shot clock. So clearly the notion that Calderon dribbles around for "18 seconds" is laughable.

                          Practically nothing from the Raptors comes in the paint because Bosh is their only post player. I don't see how that's Calderon's fault or a discredit to Calderon. He's no TJ, but it's not like Calderon is incapable of penetration. He doesn't have the quickest first step, but he's one of the best in the NBA at changing speeds. Just ask Rajon Rondo, who Calderon was abusing in the Raptors win in Boston a few weeks ago. Last night against the Spurs, the offense was ****ting the bed and Calderon was going to the rim every time in the late 3rd quarter to single-handedly bring the Raptors back in the game.

                          As for the person who suggested they play together, I don't think we'll see that happen. That would require TJ to play PG and Jose at the 2 since he's the far better shooter. However, that's a lot of size to give up on the defensive end. Calderon is atrocious enough on defense already, I'd hate to see him try to guard 2 guards for an extensive period of time. The Raps actually played TJ and Jose together for a few minutes last night, didn't work that great.

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                          • X*Cell
                            Collab: xcellnoah@gmail
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 8107

                            #43
                            Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

                            Originally posted by yucatan
                            I'm not sure how many Raptor games you've watched, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. First of all, practically nobody aside from Carlos Delfino shoots contested shots. In fact, that's one of the criticisms of a guy like Jason Kapono. That he doesn't trust his quick release enough and will only shoot if wide open. You don't shoot 42% from 3 (almost a full 4% more than the 2nd place team) by chucking up contested shots.

                            http://www.82games.com/0708/0708TOR3.HTM indicates that 63% of the Raptors shots come within the first 15 seconds of the shot clock. So clearly the notion that Calderon dribbles around for "18 seconds" is laughable.

                            Practically nothing from the Raptors comes in the paint because Bosh is their only post player. I don't see how that's Calderon's fault or a discredit to Calderon. He's no TJ, but it's not like Calderon is incapable of penetration. He doesn't have the quickest first step, but he's one of the best in the NBA at changing speeds. Just ask Rajon Rondo, who Calderon was abusing in the Raptors win in Boston a few weeks ago. Last night against the Spurs, the offense was ****ting the bed and Calderon was going to the rim every time in the late 3rd quarter to single-handedly bring the Raptors back in the game.

                            As for the person who suggested they play together, I don't think we'll see that happen. That would require TJ to play PG and Jose at the 2 since he's the far better shooter. However, that's a lot of size to give up on the defensive end. Calderon is atrocious enough on defense already, I'd hate to see him try to guard 2 guards for an extensive period of time. The Raps actually played TJ and Jose together for a few minutes last night, didn't work that great.
                            Owned.
                            SAN ANTONIO SPURS

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                            • Perceptor
                              MVP
                              • Jun 2003
                              • 4364

                              #44
                              Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

                              Quality post yucatan....I didn't think this thread would stretch to 5 pages, but I really enjoyed both sides of the Calderon as an all-star or not an all-star debate.

                              Comment

                              • Vince
                                Bow for Bau
                                • Aug 2002
                                • 26017

                                #45
                                Re: Calderon no All-Star according to Gil

                                Originally posted by ryanm1058123
                                The problem with Calderon is he dribbles around for 18 seconds and then gets the ball to a Bosh or a perimeter player and they shoot a contested 17 footer. Nothing is ever in the paint with the Raptors. TJ Ford is far better (if he stays healthy) because he can get to the basket at will unlike Calderon.
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