Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

[killspeed52]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

By the way, just to show that I'm not just trying to disagree with everyone, you're completely right about the Stackhouse/Pippen comparison.

Stackhouse may have more talent, but Pippen was a much better team player and a much better fit with Jordan.

[wwharton]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Personally, I don't think Jordan is still one of the top players in the league but I do think his impact on his team and the opposing team is still among the top ten. So if the discussion is put him on the Hawks for example instead of Shareef for example I have to compare.

Overall, he was and is a great player and still demands more attention than most in the league so as a total package I'd keep him in my top 10 but it's clear his talent has decreased. I just don't understand why we'd want to point out the flaws, how he's declining, etc. If you are a fan of MJ what's with the nitpicking on who's better?

[wwharton]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Personally, I don't think Jordan is still one of the top players in the league but I do think his impact on his team and the opposing team is still among the top ten. So if the discussion is put him on the Hawks for example instead of Shareef for example I have to compare.

Overall, he was and is a great player and still demands more attention than most in the league so as a total package I'd keep him in my top 10 but it's clear his talent has decreased. I just don't understand why we'd want to point out the flaws, how he's declining, etc. If you are a fan of MJ what's with the nitpicking on who's better?

[neovsmatrix]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
We don't need to get too caught up in comparing Jordan to Abdur-Rahim...I fully understand that it's a tough comparison.

But the question wasn't "Name 10 Small Forwards/Shooting Guards Better Than Jordan". Anytime you compile a list of the best players in the league, you have to compare players across position.

I love the discussion, and can appreciate other people's perspectives. My only request would be instead of arguing against everyone else that gets brought up, why not argue for Jordan?

By what criteria is Jordan still great? I said he's very good, meaning in the top 10% of the league. Many of you maintain that he's still one of the very best. Well, he isn't putting up great stats, just good. He doesn't play great D anymore, just good. He is inconsistent now like he never was before (again, I'm not bashing....the man is 40...this is to be expected). His team is just mediocre in a weak conference, with better players around him than people are willing to admit.

So how do we still define him as great?

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Jordan's stats aren't great, but that's not because he's incapable of putting up great stats. He is. His role at first was to try to get everyone else on the same page, to get them to compete and know their roles in the offense. He wanted Stackhouse to carry much of the scoring load, and he was willing to take a backseat to him. Stackhouse has been incredibly inconsistent though, and now that the playoffs are approaching, Jordan's just taking over, hoping that at the very least he can lead by example. This is why he's still great. Not his stats, which shouldn't even be the sole indicator of his greatness. Ever since turning 40, he's showing what he was capable of doing all along. He has had only 1 or 2 bad games since then, and that was largely because he was injured (his thigh is bruised, and he's been having back spasms).

As for the Wizards supporting cast, they're just playing too timid, and they're not playing with the urgency Jordan's playing with. This is why the Wizards are in trouble. It has nothing to do with their talent level.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
We don't need to get too caught up in comparing Jordan to Abdur-Rahim...I fully understand that it's a tough comparison.

But the question wasn't "Name 10 Small Forwards/Shooting Guards Better Than Jordan". Anytime you compile a list of the best players in the league, you have to compare players across position.

I love the discussion, and can appreciate other people's perspectives. My only request would be instead of arguing against everyone else that gets brought up, why not argue for Jordan?

By what criteria is Jordan still great? I said he's very good, meaning in the top 10% of the league. Many of you maintain that he's still one of the very best. Well, he isn't putting up great stats, just good. He doesn't play great D anymore, just good. He is inconsistent now like he never was before (again, I'm not bashing....the man is 40...this is to be expected). His team is just mediocre in a weak conference, with better players around him than people are willing to admit.

So how do we still define him as great?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Jordan's stats aren't great, but that's not because he's incapable of putting up great stats. He is. His role at first was to try to get everyone else on the same page, to get them to compete and know their roles in the offense. He wanted Stackhouse to carry much of the scoring load, and he was willing to take a backseat to him. Stackhouse has been incredibly inconsistent though, and now that the playoffs are approaching, Jordan's just taking over, hoping that at the very least he can lead by example. This is why he's still great. Not his stats, which shouldn't even be the sole indicator of his greatness. Ever since turning 40, he's showing what he was capable of doing all along. He has had only 1 or 2 bad games since then, and that was largely because he was injured (his thigh is bruised, and he's been having back spasms).

As for the Wizards supporting cast, they're just playing too timid, and they're not playing with the urgency Jordan's playing with. This is why the Wizards are in trouble. It has nothing to do with their talent level.

[the1theonly]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

it seems like every post here says jordan is a great leader, well how can you say that when he can't lead a team with some pretty good players to the playoffs in the east. Then people say he makes his teammates better. Well who exactly has he made better? Stackhouse? Laetner? Hughes? Brown? What about last year? Alexander?My point is don't let what jordan used to be cloud your perception of reality. Jordan isn't a top10 player. probably not top 25. A lot of players could put up numbers if they had free reign like jordan has.

I think that the team would be better off had jordan stuck with the role he played earlier in the season. Has the team been any better since he moved to the starting lineup?

[the1theonly]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

it seems like every post here says jordan is a great leader, well how can you say that when he can't lead a team with some pretty good players to the playoffs in the east. Then people say he makes his teammates better. Well who exactly has he made better? Stackhouse? Laetner? Hughes? Brown? What about last year? Alexander?My point is don't let what jordan used to be cloud your perception of reality. Jordan isn't a top10 player. probably not top 25. A lot of players could put up numbers if they had free reign like jordan has.

I think that the team would be better off had jordan stuck with the role he played earlier in the season. Has the team been any better since he moved to the starting lineup?

[neovsmatrix]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Really? Who else on the Wizards is putting it all out on the floor like Jordan's doing? The Wizards weren't winning when Jordan was a bench player. He's willed them to victory a number of times, but right now nobody's stepping up except maybe Juan Dixon. Jordan wants the Wizards to make the playoffs. They don't have a chance if he's coming off the bench. They at least stand a chance when he's on the floor from the beginning because he can set the tone from the beginning. As for whether Jordan's a top 25 player, maybe before he turned 40 he wasn't, but he is now, IMHO. This is a completely different Jordan, because he looks to set the tone right away now, rather than just see how his team responds.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

Really? Who else on the Wizards is putting it all out on the floor like Jordan's doing? The Wizards weren't winning when Jordan was a bench player. He's willed them to victory a number of times, but right now nobody's stepping up except maybe Juan Dixon. Jordan wants the Wizards to make the playoffs. They don't have a chance if he's coming off the bench. They at least stand a chance when he's on the floor from the beginning because he can set the tone from the beginning. As for whether Jordan's a top 25 player, maybe before he turned 40 he wasn't, but he is now, IMHO. This is a completely different Jordan, because he looks to set the tone right away now, rather than just see how his team responds.

[NBAoz]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
it seems like every post here says jordan is a great leader, well how can you say that when he can't lead a team with some pretty good players to the playoffs in the east. Then people say he makes his teammates better. Well who exactly has he made better? Stackhouse? Laetner? Hughes? Brown? What about last year? Alexander?My point is don't let what jordan used to be cloud your perception of reality. Jordan isn't a top10 player. probably not top 25. A lot of players could put up numbers if they had free reign like jordan has.

I think that the team would be better off had jordan stuck with the role he played earlier in the season. Has the team been any better since he moved to the starting lineup?


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I disagree, Jordan IS a great leader.. don't confuse good players with talented players with potential. He is leading by example and it's not his fault that his team mates aren't getting the message. Jordan is definitely in the top 15 or so players in the league and at 40 years old that is damn good. He is the only Wizard playing with heart and determination. He is clearly more competitive than his team mates and knows what it takes to make it in this league as he has proven time and time again. He is playing with urgency now and most of the remaining Wizards players are not. I think Dixon is probably benefitting the most from Jordan, but you've got to realise that he is only in his rookie year. The trade for Stackhouse was bad in my opinion... they should have kept Rip Hamilton.. at least he could feed of Jordan and hit his shots unlike Stackhouse. Jordan doesn't have free reign.. he is trying to get his team mates involved by making good plays and passing them the ball.... they just can't deliver and he isn't playing for stats either. You do realise that before Jordan was inserted into the starting lineup, the young players on the team were making lots of mistakes and costing the team wins don't you? I think Jordan being in the starting lineup was just what the team needed.

[NBAoz]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
it seems like every post here says jordan is a great leader, well how can you say that when he can't lead a team with some pretty good players to the playoffs in the east. Then people say he makes his teammates better. Well who exactly has he made better? Stackhouse? Laetner? Hughes? Brown? What about last year? Alexander?My point is don't let what jordan used to be cloud your perception of reality. Jordan isn't a top10 player. probably not top 25. A lot of players could put up numbers if they had free reign like jordan has.

I think that the team would be better off had jordan stuck with the role he played earlier in the season. Has the team been any better since he moved to the starting lineup?


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I disagree, Jordan IS a great leader.. don't confuse good players with talented players with potential. He is leading by example and it's not his fault that his team mates aren't getting the message. Jordan is definitely in the top 15 or so players in the league and at 40 years old that is damn good. He is the only Wizard playing with heart and determination. He is clearly more competitive than his team mates and knows what it takes to make it in this league as he has proven time and time again. He is playing with urgency now and most of the remaining Wizards players are not. I think Dixon is probably benefitting the most from Jordan, but you've got to realise that he is only in his rookie year. The trade for Stackhouse was bad in my opinion... they should have kept Rip Hamilton.. at least he could feed of Jordan and hit his shots unlike Stackhouse. Jordan doesn't have free reign.. he is trying to get his team mates involved by making good plays and passing them the ball.... they just can't deliver and he isn't playing for stats either. You do realise that before Jordan was inserted into the starting lineup, the young players on the team were making lots of mistakes and costing the team wins don't you? I think Jordan being in the starting lineup was just what the team needed.

[XxCiMaxX678]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
it seems like every post here says jordan is a great leader, well how can you say that when he can't lead a team with some pretty good players to the playoffs in the east. Then people say he makes his teammates better. Well who exactly has he made better? Stackhouse? Laetner? Hughes? Brown? What about last year? Alexander?My point is don't let what jordan used to be cloud your perception of reality. Jordan isn't a top10 player. probably not top 25. A lot of players could put up numbers if they had free reign like jordan has.

I think that the team would be better off had jordan stuck with the role he played earlier in the season. Has the team been any better since he moved to the starting lineup?


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

You saying that Jordan isn't a great leader is not even worth responding to.

[XxCiMaxX678]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
it seems like every post here says jordan is a great leader, well how can you say that when he can't lead a team with some pretty good players to the playoffs in the east. Then people say he makes his teammates better. Well who exactly has he made better? Stackhouse? Laetner? Hughes? Brown? What about last year? Alexander?My point is don't let what jordan used to be cloud your perception of reality. Jordan isn't a top10 player. probably not top 25. A lot of players could put up numbers if they had free reign like jordan has.

I think that the team would be better off had jordan stuck with the role he played earlier in the season. Has the team been any better since he moved to the starting lineup?


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

You saying that Jordan isn't a great leader is not even worth responding to.

[keRplunK]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

he made the team, he's a horrible GM....nuff said. He shouldn't be complaining.

[keRplunK]

Re: Name 10 Players Better Than Jordan...Go

he made the team, he's a horrible GM....nuff said. He shouldn't be complaining.