Who are the best five Lakers?

[ZM Punk]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

I listed those people because you could argue any of them could be considered for the list. I was not meaning Kareem in particular. I did the research and as you can see I did put Kareem in the top 5. What he did with the Lakers did warrant him being in there.



You also must have missed the post where I said Kareem is one of the top 5 players in NBA history. I just thought his best days were when he was with the Bucks.

[yvesdereuter]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

You mean how dare I answer you with a link providing all of the pertinent Kareem info? Now one would deduce that since I gave you the information, I already possessed said data, but that's just in my own crazy logic. It's not my job to figure out why you flunked Kareem 101. There is the link and either get the info or don't.

No, I meant precisely what I said.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

You also must have missed the post where I said Kareem is one of the top 5 players in NBA history. I just thought his best days were when he was with the Bucks.

I'm only discussing Kareem's Laker career versus the list of people you said you'd have trouble omitting from the list. Weakest first, and that'd be Worthy.

[yvesdereuter]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

OK, here are my 5:

1. Magic Johnson
2. Elgin Baylor
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Kobe Bryant
5. George Mikan

CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!

[ZM Punk]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

I'm only discussing Kareem's Laker career versus the list of people you said you'd have trouble omitting from the list. Weakest first, and that'd be Worthy.

Point taken, but to say guys like that don't even deserve mentioning is just crazy to me. If guys like Mikan, Worthy, and Elgin Baylor deserve mention on the all time top 50 list by the league I think they're definitely worth mentioning in a discussion of the all time greatest Lakers. Not just over Kareem but over any of those guys.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

Point taken, but to say guys like that don't even deserve mentioning is just crazy to me. If guys like Mikan, Worthy, and Elgin Baylor deserve mention on the all time top 50 list by the league I think they're definitely worth mentioning in a discussion of the all time greatest Lakers. Not just over Kareem but over any of those guys.

Then we can agree to disagree. I don't think James Worthy merits discussion as a guy to potentially replace Kareem in any way at all whatsoever. Kareem was superior in every aspect, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't discuss Mikan because he played before there was a rebounding stat. No shot clock. The league was underdeveloped in many ways, and I can only observe his significance in reference to the NBA. It's impossible for me to look at him as a player, because I haven't seen him play much, and the footage I have seen barely resembles basketball. My policy on these things is to omit all of the players who are from the time where people ran around dribbling with one hand, because they were pioneers, rather than comparable talents to what we see today.

But that's just me.

[ZM Punk]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

Then we can agree to disagree. I don't think James Worthy merits discussion as a guy to potentially replace Kareem in any way at all whatsoever. Kareem was superior in every aspect, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't discuss Mikan because he played before there was a rebounding stat. No shot clock. The league was underdeveloped in many ways, and I can only observe his significance in reference to the NBA. It's impossible for me to look at him as a player, because I haven't seen him play much, and the footage I have seen barely resembles basketball. My policy on these things is to omit all of the players who are from the time where people ran around dribbling with one hand, because they were pioneers, rather than comparable talents to what we see today.

But that's just me.

Again, I wasn't meaning that he would replace Kareem specifically, I just think you have to mention him in the discussion when you think of the top 5 Lakers.


I agree with you're opinion on Mikan as well, but from my point of view you just can't deny what he did in day in age. Do I think he would do the same thing in the 90's that he did in the 50's? Probably not, but I just can't penalize him for the era he plays in.


Don't think that I don't think Kareem wasn't a great player. Because that is the furthest thing from the truth. I just thought that there were so many great players that have worn a Laker uniform, that when it comes down to it you can make a strong case for a lot of those guys.

[yvesdereuter]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

When Kareem entered the NBA, it was a league for big men. When Kareem left the NBA, it was more about the player who was 6'7" and very athletic. As it became a league of athletic 6'7" players, the big men had less of an advantage. In a lot of cases the 6'7 guy could out jump the 7' guy. The big man wasnt irrelevant though because it was still a game of position and not purely isolated episodes of a 6'7 guy out jumping taller players. And to me, Kareem is a guy who entered the league during the Wilt Chamberlain era but when he left it was the Michael Jordan (I know he was 6'6).

You could kind of look at it like Worthy was that 6'7ish player who was more athletic.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

Again, I wasn't meaning that he would replace Kareem specifically, I just think you have to mention him in the discussion when you think of the top 5 Lakers.

I was directly addressing the idea that it would be tough to place Kareem on the list, when I don't think that there is anyone outside of the top four names that can be discussed with Kareem.

Don't think that I don't think Kareem wasn't a great player. Because that is the furthest thing from the truth. I just thought that there were so many great players that have worn a Laker uniform, that when it comes down to it you can make a strong case for a lot of those guys.

I agree with you on the point of the Lakers overall, but when you look at Kareem, he is a step above most guys to play the game. He is the elite OF the elite. You can talk top fifty, but KAJ is top ten, perhaps top five. James Worthy isn't even in that discussion, which is why I have to separate him.

I agree with you're opinion on Mikan as well, but from my point of view you just can't deny what he did in day in age. Do I think he would do the same thing in the 90's that he did in the 50's? Probably not, but I just can't penalize him for the era he plays in.

I don't think of it as penalizing him at all. It's just a matter of what kind of discussion you're having. In my case, I've watched Kareem play, both while he was playing and then seeing a lot of footage after he retired. Even more pertinently, the footage that I've seen directly relates to the chain-link of players that I'm watching today. Kareem-Magic-Mike-Shaq-Duncan-Kobe-CP3-Derrick Rose.

I don't have to separate the experience of watching Kareem's game from watching games today. So I'm an observer.

When discussing Mikan, I can only discuss things as a historian, which gives an entirely different perspective that I find a little dishonest when we talk about judging greatness. In sports, I can't judge what I cannot see. George Mikan exists in the abstract world of numbers and anecdotes. Kareem Abdul Jabar is real to me.

It's not a penalty, but a guideline for the dialectic if I'm being asked to play the role of observer.

[ZM Punk]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

I was directly addressing the idea that it would be tough to place Kareem on the list, when I don't think that there is anyone outside of the top four names that can be discussed with Kareem.



I agree with you on the point of the Lakers overall, but when you look at Kareem, he is a step above most guys to play the game. He is the elite OF the elite. You can talk top fifty, but KAJ is top ten, perhaps top five. James Worthy isn't even in that discussion, which is why I have to separate him.



I don't think of it as penalizing him at all. It's just a matter of what kind of discussion you're having. In my case, I've watched Kareem play, both while he was playing and then seeing a lot of footage after he retired. Even more pertinently, the footage that I've seen directly relates to the chain-link of players that I'm watching today. Kareem-Magic-Mike-Shaq-Duncan-Kobe-CP3-Derrick Rose.

I don't have to separate the experience of watching Kareem's game from watching games today. So I'm an observer.

When discussing Mikan, I can only discuss things as a historian, which gives an entirely different perspective that I find a little dishonest when we talk about judging greatness. In sports, I can't judge what I cannot see. George Mikan exists in the abstract world of numbers and anecdotes. Kareem Abdul Jabar is real to me.

It's not a penalty, but a guideline for the dialectic if I'm being asked to play the role of observer.

I understand everything that you said. I know were in the NBA forum and all, but you don't have to be combative all the time. Some people around here actually like to have civil conversations.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

Was that post combative?

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

In no particular order;

Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Jerry West
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille O'Neal

[edubbs]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

^^^^^^

i agree with that list

[SPTO]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

Hmm

1. Magic
2. West (this is based more on impact and yes i'm even adding his off court success)
3. Kareem
4. Baylor
5. Kobe

[yvesdereuter]

Re: Who are the best five Lakers?

In no particular order;

Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Jerry West
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille O'Neal

OK, now rank them.