Selfish Players

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Selfish Players

Uh, how can you not? It's arguably the biggest stage possible with the most on the line. And we should just ignore it?

And I'm not some Kobe *****, I don't get involved in any of the 50-page pissing matches on OS about Kobe. I like watching Kobe for the most part but there are still plenty of times where I scratch my head and say, "What the hell is he thinking?"

Kobe's going to take all the big shots on the Lakers, that's fine, even if it's a forced or ill-advised shots - I get that. But as a complete basketball player there are times when I question his bball IQ and his selfishness.

I guess I put Kobe as #1 because of his stature. Obviously anyone can chose to disgaree with that.

So after last season you STILL believe Kobe is "king of selfish". What exactly makes you say that outside of 7 games in the Summer time, and 5 games of the Finals.

It boggles my mind that someone who is the King of that can get his team into the Finals in the toughest year in recent memory.

You can't play like Kobe year 2004 etc. and get to the Finals [without the most dominant player on Earth at your side]. Sorry. He's changed a ton, it's a shame you guys choose to be simps.

[ehh]

Re: Selfish Players

So after last season you STILL believe Kobe is "king of selfish". What exactly makes you say that outside of 7 games in the Summer time, and 5 games of the Finals.

I understand where you are coming from but it doesn't do Kobe any good in my eyes when the 12 most important games he played in 2008 had plenty of selfish spats. Like I said, he's not as bad as he used to be but it all depends on how you view it. Ya know the saying, "You can't turn a ho into a housewife"? This is along the same lines to me. When the going gets tough and it's crunch time, Kobe has a tendency to resort to his natural play which means he tries to do everything by himself.

If that makes me a ***** than I guess I'm a *****. Maybe it's cause he's the face of the league, because he's more in the spotlight than Melo or Gilbert. Like I said, I can see why someone would chose one of them as the most selfish players in the league. Actually, even I might put Gilbert above Kobe after thinking about it.

[FullSail]

Re: Selfish Players

Marbury is probably the most misconstrued "selfish" player. He's selfish in terms of being a baby, going into a shell, not hustling at times but I wouldn't describe his actual game as selfish, just his attitude.

Great post about Marbury, man! I never understood the rap he got as a ballhog. People always say "he's a 2 in a 1's body" as if that's always a bad thing if u have the talent to pull it off. The problem with 'Starbury' is that sometimes he has those female type funks and pout all over the place like someone mentioned earlier.

Now back to this poll or whatever. No list is complete or legit even if it doesn't include 'The Franchise'. I had the misfortune of having this dude in Orlando for a season and that was all I needed to see. It was literally him bringing the ball up and dribbling (all in one spot, mind you) for 22 seconds before he took some god awful shot. This dude even said in an interview once that the only reason he passes is cause the coaches are always telling him to , WTF!!!

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Selfish Players

By the same token, they won the Gold medal, and Bryant was an integral part of their 'redemption' and what LBJ and Wade could not achieve before. They didn't win in spite of him. He had a couple of bad shots per game, I don't think it's fair to say, 'yup, he's still the most selfish guy in the league'.

By the same token, in the playoffs, Bryant raised his level of team play and individual play from the regular season, in which he won the MVP. Once they got to the Finals, there's no denying Kobe tried to win it on his own. No doubt. His teammates didn't do a whole Hell of a lot to change his mind when they got the chances.

I'm not calling you a *****, but I believe you're really stretching it here.

[vaballer34]

Re: Selfish Players

See there's a lot to this subject.

This is why it's unfair to talk about bench guys.. their roles are different on different teams. Sasha is basically free to launch threes off the pine. If he ever started, yeah I know he won't anytime soon, he'd have to change up his game a bunch. Same thing with JR Smith.. coming off the bench he's supposed to provide an offensive spark right?

Every team is in a different competitive situation. Durant can go crazy in Seattle.. Mayo will go crazy in Memphis.. etc.

Also is the subject talking about on the court, ballhoging wise? Selfish can personify itself in many faucets, it's not that simple to say so and so is the most selfish.

What is the main point of the topic?

You right Sasha and J.R. Smith are being paid to be an offensive spark off the bench but the team is built around Kobe, A.I., and Melo. Sasha and J.R. is told more to come in the game and shoot and be that spark off the bench and thats pretty much it. But Kobe, A.I., and Melo is told to win the game for their teams.

I agree with everything you are saying. Players can be selfish on the court and off the court in alot of different ways so everyone has to look at the big picture. There are players that don't take as many shots as Kobe, A.I., Bron, etc. but are more selfish then them.

[vaballer34]

Re: Selfish Players

I understand where you are coming from but it doesn't do Kobe any good in my eyes when the 12 most important games he played in 2008 had plenty of selfish spats. Like I said, he's not as bad as he used to be but it all depends on how you view it. Ya know the saying, "You can't turn a ho into a housewife"? This is along the same lines to me. When the going gets tough and it's crunch time, Kobe has a tendency to resort to his natural play which means he tries to do everything by himself.

If that makes me a ***** than I guess I'm a *****. Maybe it's cause he's the face of the league, because he's more in the spotlight than Melo or Gilbert. Like I said, I can see why someone would chose one of them as the most selfish players in the league. Actually, even I might put Gilbert above Kobe after thinking about it.

But you have to understand the competitive nature of some of these players. Yes when the going gets tough and the game is on the line Kobe wants the ball in his hands....all of the great ones do. That doesn't show that they are selfish. It shows that they have confidence in themselves to win the game for their teams down the stretch.

I gotta agree about Gilbert. To me he draws to much attention to himself on and off the court.

[Brankles]

Re: Selfish Players

No offense, but who the F cares about the F'ing Olympics when it comes to this subject?

You're really going to take 7 games, and use that as evidence? Get the Hell out.

Also, a player that is King of Selfish who is also the best player on his team, isn't going to end up in the Finals.

Over the course of Kobe Bryant's recent career, people said he had to be selfish in order to win games, that he wouldn't play like that if he had good players around him. When he got the chance to play all of those games with the Olympic team, however, he played the exact same way... even by the end of the Olympics, after months of practice. None of the other stars had games where they took bad shot after bad shot and still kept shooting instead of moving the ball around. You even made comments about how selfish he was playing during those games and even acknowledged he played selfish in the Finals, by far the two largest basketball stages today. This isn't something you should ignore just because it goes against your opinion.

I just think that dude likes to shoot. It's been a knock on him for a while now. He'd rather take the shot than have someone else do it at pretty much every point in the game. Some might call it confidence, but I think he plays more on the selfish side of basketball. The reason he gets away with it is because he's so talented, hard working and skilled and has played on such great teams.

The Finals before Shaq left, that's when all of the selfish talk started really coming out, when he shot the Lakers out of a championship against the Pistons. It got even more pronounced when he started losing games the three or so years before Pau. Put him back on a championship-caliber squad, and the selfish talk goes away... until he loses again in this year's Finals. There's a direct correlation here between winning and losing and public attitude about Kobe's selfishness, even though he's played basically the same way throughout his career. Player's flaws are many times covered up by their team's successes. I think, in this case, it really stands out with Kobe. If the US team lost in one of Kobe's horrible shooting nights, you best believe he would've been vilified by the media and basketball fans for his selfishness. Luckily our team was so good that he could've missed 40 consecutive shots and we would have won regardless... which is why you didn't hear more about his shaky play.


Calling Kobe a selfish player is not an outrageous statement to make. It's still just an opinion, but it is backed with a good amount of justification. If you have a differing opinion, fine. Just don't throw out valid points because you don't like them.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Selfish Players

Sample size.

I specifically said "KoME is still top 5 in terms of being a blackhole".

To say "Kobe is King of Selfish". That's simply irrational, and dudes have agendas.

If you think the Olympics is enough to justify saying he's the most selfish player in the league more power to you. He took some bad shots sure, but Christ you're actually going to use his performance to say he's selfish? Really?

[ProjectRipCity]

Re: Selfish Players

For Kobe's team to excel he has to be a little selfish Im sure his teamates do not mind. But guys like Mellow I just hate...He is a ballhog and he is nowhere in the same caliber as Kobe. The only people in the NBA who has the right to be selfish is Kobe, Lebron. Nobody else.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Selfish Players

For Kobe's team to excel he has to be a little selfish Im sure his teamates do not mind. But guys like Mellow I just hate...He is a ballhog and he is nowhere in the same caliber as Kobe. The only people in the NBA who has the right to be selfish is Kobe, Lebron. Nobody else.

You summed it up nicely.

I mean like I mentioned before, how is Melo not the guy at the top of everyone's list?

A lot of you guys are focusing on 12 games, when Kobe had 82 games plus 3 playoff series' where he played just about as well as you could ask him.

Then he helps us get a Gold medal, something LBJ and Wade, Melo couldn't do previously. Agendas.

I can call him a blackhole, sure. To call him the King of Blackholes.. that's not fair nor accurate IMO.

[Brankles]

Re: Selfish Players

Sample size.

I specifically said "KoME is still top 5 in terms of being a blackhole".

To say "Kobe is King of Selfish". That's simply irrational, and dudes have agendas.

If you think the Olympics is enough to justify saying he's the most selfish player in the league more power to you. He took some bad shots sure, but Christ you're actually going to use his performance to say he's selfish? Really?

Clearly if you read my post, using the Olympics was only a small part of my argument, albeit a pretty important one. There's been entire seasons, playoffs, playoff series, on-court and off-court issues where Kobe has been widely viewed as being a selfish player, not just the Olympics. The Olympics just stands out because he continued to play his same style of shoot-first basketball and barely adjusted to the level of talent supporting him.

It's just the way he plays. When he loses taking bad shots that don't go in, you recognize it. When he wins taking bad shots that do go in, you disregard it. You're following the same ebb and flow that the media and casual sports fans go through when it comes to your thoughts on Kobe's style of play.

Also, no one here has an agenda, that would imply that they would have something to gain from talking negatively about Kobe Bryant's game. People are just stating their opinions and you're getting overly defensive about it.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Selfish Players

Dang, if you mention Kobe in any thread that has to do with Overrated or Selfish, you're going to be hearing about it for pages upon pages.

Unbelievable.

[J.R. Locke]

Re: Selfish Players

If you want to bash Kobe don't hide it man. We all know what your motive of this post was

I mentioned Kobe as the obvious considering I had just read Phil Jackson's book. But I am more interested in guys like Marbury. To me Stephon has played the PG position well throughout his career. Some argue scoring PG's are selfish but I argue that they have to score 12 ppg at least to be effective. Selfish or not?

Anyway I don't like Kobe I will admit that but hardly a bash Kobe thread. I wanted to hear about the other players in the league that play selfish. Maybe like a Mo Williams or Cat Mobley? Zach Randolph is one guy at the top too.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Selfish Players

Clearly if you read my post, using the Olympics was only a small part of my argument, albeit a pretty important one. There's been entire seasons, playoffs, playoff series, on-court and off-court issues where Kobe has been widely viewed as being a selfish player, not just the Olympics. The Olympics just stands out because he continued to play his same style of shoot-first basketball and barely adjusted to the level of talent supporting him.

It's just the way he plays. When he loses taking bad shots that don't go in, you recognize it. When he wins taking bad shots that do go in, you disregard it. You're following the same ebb and flow that the media and casual sports fans go through when it comes to your thoughts on Kobe's style of play.

Also, no one here has an agenda, that would imply that they would have something to gain from talking negatively about Kobe Bryant's game. People are just stating their opinions and you're getting overly defensive about it.

So the point of this thread is to just analyze player's pasts? That's tired.

Disregard this past season. More power to you.

Agendas is the wrong word to use here.. more like personal bias.

How anyone can still crown him king of selfish is beyond me. Please address that point. I don't know how many times I can admit that he is still somewhat of a blackhole. There's no denying that.

IMO he's found a perfect balance.. it got him and his team to the Finals.. a team that was not expected to contend.. with Pau who has never been out of the first round. You can't be King of Selfish and accomplish that, along with the MVP.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Selfish Players

I'm with Cebby and also going with Deshawn Stevenson on this one.