"RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

[PrettyT11]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

There is no way you can justify a statement like that without playing the "IF" game. For example, Tony Parker is a shoot first PG and he has 3 rings

True and to take it a step further Payton has taken his team to a finals. That is something Sidney has NEVER done. So I don't see how he can make that kind of statement in the first place.

[AlexBrady]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

Aight man you got it. You keep dipping and dodging the question. You keep hating on Robinson yet all he had done since coming into the league is have a season leading the league in scoring, rebounding, and blocks. What more do you want your center to do?? You talk about all around skills how many other player can say they had a quadruple double?? How exactly wasn't he all around?? He is the only player in HISTORY to be in the top 5 in rebounds, blocks, and steals in the same season. Only player in history to win ROY,MVP,DPOY, scoring title, rebounding title, and block shots title. Only the third player in hiastory to be top 10 in FIVE catergories in the same season. Again that is all around. The only player at his position better than him in his prime was Hakeem and Shaq but Robinson was a far better defender than Shaq.

You want your center to dominate the paint and he did that. The only player with more blocks and rebounds when he played was again only Hakeem. So if the only guy who did his job better than you was arguably a top 10 all time player you have to be pretty good your damn self. But I guess all those 10,000 plus rebounds, close to 3,000 blocks, and 20,000 plus points where overrated too??

You then talk about Sidney's team as the reason for HIS play in the playoffs and lack of winning. Yet in still Sidney's playoff number where WORSE than his regular season numbers. Plus he had a legit 20 plus scorer in Cummings. That's something Ewing never had and Robinson never had until Duncan. Let's not act like Robinson and Ewing where playing on super star loaded teams. Robinson was leading a team full of role players until Duncan got there. Sean Elliot was a nice player but he was nothing close to Tery Cummings. Yet they still won MORE and did MORE in the playoffs than Sidney. And that doesn't include the other players like Barkley and Payton you wanted to call overrated as well. They did more than Sidney as well. Plus Payton was a damn good all around player.

Pretty, you are resorting to looking at numbers my friend. Do not use numbers as the determining factor of a player's career. Numbers would tell you that Robinson was a good defender (his blocked shots stats) when in reality he was not a good on ball defender. He was a decent rebounder but he really couldn't rebound well in a crowd. He had a very limited scoring reportoire (jumpers from the foul line and putbacks from offensive rebounds). The weirdest thing though was that he didn't like to bang with other bigs in the paint on a consistent basis.

Again you are putting too much emphasis on playoff numbers. Moncrief's defensive impact was almost impossible to measure as was his leadership. In comparison, Robinson was a piss poor leader who almost never rose to the occasion when the pressure was on. How are you supposed to be a great leader when you are missing free throws or comitting turnovers that cost your team the game. Why do you think Dennis Rodman left the Spurs? Because he knew they were not serious about winning a title and that Robinson was not all he was cracked up to be. David Robinson dominated the paint? Please, the guy could barely maintain position and stand his ground in the paint on a consistent basis.

Charles Barkley was never serious about winning a championship. If he was then how come he would report to training camp 20 pounds overweight? Did he ever play consistently good defense? Nope, only when he felt like it. He was selfish beyond belief and he never made his teammates better. Both Barkley and Robinson made headlines almost every day and were worshipped by the foolish media while Moncrief barely ever sniffed the highlights.

[AlexBrady]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

There is no way you can justify a statement like that without playing the "IF" game. For example, Tony Parker is a shoot first PG and he has 3 rings

Do you think playing with Tim Duncan has a little something to do with the rings? How about Parker not being an explosive and confrontational teammate (ala Payton). Payton was a good player, just not all he was made out to be.

[PrettyT11]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

Pretty, you are resorting to looking at numbers my friend. Do not use numbers as the determining factor of a player's career. Numbers would tell you that Robinson was a good defender (his blocked shots stats) when in reality he was not a good on ball defender. He was a decent rebounder but he really couldn't rebound well in a crowd. He had a very limited scoring reportoire (jumpers from the foul line and putbacks from offensive rebounds). The weirdest thing though was that he didn't like to bang with other bigs in the paint on a consistent basis.

Again you are putting too much emphasis on playoff numbers. Moncrief's defensive impact was almost impossible to measure as was his leadership. In comparison, Robinson was a piss poor leader who almost never rose to the occasion when the pressure was on. How are you supposed to be a great leader when you are missing free throws or comitting turnovers that cost your team the game. Why do you think Dennis Rodman left the Spurs? Because he knew they were not serious about winning a title and that Robinson was not all he was cracked up to be. David Robinson dominated the paint? Please, the guy could barely maintain position and stand his ground in the paint on a consistent basis.

Charles Barkley was never serious about winning a championship. If he was then how come he would report to training camp 20 pounds overweight? Did he ever play consistently good defense? Nope, only when he felt like it. He was selfish beyond belief and he never made his teammates better. Both Barkley and Robinson made headlines almost every day and were worshipped by the foolish media while Moncrief barely ever sniffed the highlights.

It's more than just the numbers though my dog. Robinson was a great defender. You don't win DPOY awards by just being good. It more than just the block shots. Take a look at the outrageously high steal numbers for a center. Again only matched by Hakeem.

I think the thing you are forgetting the most about Robinson is that he was a smart player. You can tlk about banging all you want to but the point of defense is to stop the other team from scoring. By stealing the ball or blocking shots he did that. Why should he bang when he doesn't have to. He knows he had the speed and quickness advantage so he used it. If you can stop the other team from scoring without having to use as much energy you do so and save that energy for the offensive end or for later in the game. Hakeem was the same way. They where both very smart players and use what they had to their advantage. Hakeem was just the better player.

He was more than just a decent rebounder. You don't league the league in rebounds per game and TOTAL rebounds more than once by just being decent. Again they banging part is overrated and really irrelevent when talking about him. 13 rebounds is 13 rebounds. Wether you pushed a guy out of the way or you went over and around him. The end result is still the same. You GOT THE REBOUND.

As far as the scoring goes it doesn't mater how many way you can do it. It matters if you can score or if you can't. The fact is Robinson could score from day one. He had more offensive game than you are wanting to give him credit for. 30 points in a game is 30 points. It doesn't matter if they where all jumpshots, hookshots, or layups. It is still 30 points.

Then you want to knock his leadership. Come on man please. That Spurs team won 21 games the year before Robinson. His ROOKIE season he takes them to 56 wins. That was the biggest turnaround in NBA HISTORY. He took a horrible team and instantly made them contenders. They never missed the playoffs under him and never won less than 47 games. Then like I said he never had a good of a team as his peers. His team was full of role players. How is that piss poor leadership?? Not every player plays great in every game. Even the greatest of all time Jordan said he has missed more game winning shots than he made. So are you going to knock him too?? NOBODY gets it done EVERY TIME. Again those WCF's against Hakeem he was just outplayed by the better player and better TEAM for that matter. It wasn't like Robinson didn't show up. He was just outplayed. That happens. If you want to hand pick bad plays or series to talk about a player we can do that with almost every player in history.

If he was so bad of a leader name me another center besides Hakeem that you could have replaced him with and they would have been better?? I will wait for it. I doubt you can than cause to you every center not named Hakeem in that era was overrated.

I don't know what you are talking about as far as Rodman goes. He didn't have a choice wether he left or not. They got rid or Rodman not the other way around. The Spurs where tired of his ******** behavior and foolish antics. He was traded for damn WILL PURDUE. That shows you how bad they wanted to get rid of him.

I don't get where you say Barkley wasn't serious about winning. They man played his *** off and went hard every night. He had his team close to title but was beaten by the greatest of all time like everybody else.

You keep backing Sidney like he was this super leader and showed up all of time when he wasn't. He knock these other guys for playoff mistakes but don't want to account for Sidney's as well. When your playoff number are worse than your regular season numbers more times than not then that means you didn't step up when it counted. There was no playoff clutch moments for him. There where zero rings and zero finals. Hell his record in the conference finals is 2 and 12. Thats called getting your *** kicked when it counts the most. Hell he has been swept 3 times and beat down 4 to 1 multiple times. You would think such a great leader would get a least one win. That is called playoff failure. Again dude was a good player but not as good as you want him to be. He is not a top 30 all time.

[AlexBrady]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

It's more than just the numbers though my dog. Robinson was a great defender. You don't win DPOY awards by just being good. It more than just the block shots. Take a look at the outrageously high steal numbers for a center. Again only matched by Hakeem.

I think the thing you are forgetting the most about Robinson is that he was a smart player. You can tlk about banging all you want to but the point of defense is to stop the other team from scoring. By stealing the ball or blocking shots he did that. Why should he bang when he doesn't have to. He knows he had the speed and quickness advantage so he used it. If you can stop the other team from scoring without having to use as much energy you do so and save that energy for the offensive end or for later in the game. Hakeem was the same way. They where both very smart players and use what they had to their advantage. Hakeem was just the better player.

He was more than just a decent rebounder. You don't league the league in rebounds per game and TOTAL rebounds more than once by just being decent. Again they banging part is overrated and really irrelevent when talking about him. 13 rebounds is 13 rebounds. Wether you pushed a guy out of the way or you went over and around him. The end result is still the same. You GOT THE REBOUND.

As far as the scoring goes it doesn't mater how many way you can do it. It matters if you can score or if you can't. The fact is Robinson could score from day one. He had more offensive game than you are wanting to give him credit for. 30 points in a game is 30 points. It doesn't matter if they where all jumpshots, hookshots, or layups. It is still 30 points.

Then you want to knock his leadership. Come on man please. That Spurs team won 21 games the year before Robinson. His ROOKIE season he takes them to 56 wins. That was the biggest turnaround in NBA HISTORY. He took a horrible team and instantly made them contenders. They never missed the playoffs under him and never won less than 47 games. Then like I said he never had a good of a team as his peers. His team was full of role players. How is that piss poor leadership?? Not every player plays great in every game. Even the greatest of all time Jordan said he has missed more game winning shots than he made. So are you going to knock him too?? NOBODY gets it done EVERY TIME. Again those WCF's against Hakeem he was just outplayed by the better player and better TEAM for that matter. It wasn't like Robinson didn't show up. He was just outplayed. That happens. If you want to hand pick bad plays or series to talk about a player we can do that with almost every player in history.

If he was so bad of a leader name me another center besides Hakeem that you could have replaced him with and they would have been better?? I will wait for it. I doubt you can than cause to you every center not named Hakeem in that era was overrated.

I don't know what you are talking about as far as Rodman goes. He didn't have a choice wether he left or not. They got rid or Rodman not the other way around. The Spurs where tired of his ******** behavior and foolish antics. He was traded for damn WILL PURDUE. That shows you how bad they wanted to get rid of him.

I don't get where you say Barkley wasn't serious about winning. They man played his *** off and went hard every night. He had his team close to title but was beaten by the greatest of all time like everybody else.

You keep backing Sidney like he was this super leader and showed up all of time when he wasn't. He knock these other guys for playoff mistakes but don't want to account for Sidney's as well. When your playoff number are worse than your regular season numbers more times than not then that means you didn't step up when it counted. There was no playoff clutch moments for him. There where zero rings and zero finals. Hell his record in the conference finals is 2 and 12. Thats called getting your *** kicked when it counts the most. Hell he has been swept 3 times and beat down 4 to 1 multiple times. You would think such a great leader would get a least one win. That is called playoff failure. Again dude was a good player but not as good as you want him to be. He is not a top 30 all time.

Robinson was not a great defender. He was great at coming from the weakside and blocking shots. He could not consistently keep his man in front of him. Looking at steals numbers is a foolish way of judging defense my friend as it has been proven that fundamental defense beats sniping (or gambling defense) any day of the week. He never played with much passion at all (unlike Hakeem) and some have said that he really didn't love basketball. Yes, Robinson was very intelligent (which the media absolutely adored) and he was very classy off the court. Too bad he played so classy on the court. When you are 7 feet and play the center position you are going to get many rebounds by default. It is just the nature of the 5 spot. Again he was a decent rebounder.

Outplayed by Hakeem? I think you mean he was thoroughly dominated. Choose any center of all time that could be put on the Spurs and they would have more success? Hmmm, Shaquille O'Neal, Bill Russell, Nate Thurmond, Bill Walton, George Mikan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and Wilt Chamberlain. I definitely don't think Robinson was a bum, far from it. I am saying his game was less than meets the eye. He was a good player.

[PrettyT11]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

Robinson was not a great defender. He was great at coming from the weakside and blocking shots. He could not consistently keep his man in front of him. Looking at steals numbers is a foolish way of judging defense my friend as it has been proven that fundamental defense beats sniping (or gambling defense) any day of the week. He never played with much passion at all (unlike Hakeem) and some have said that he really didn't love basketball. Yes, Robinson was very intelligent (which the media absolutely adored) and he was very classy off the court. Too bad he played so classy on the court. When you are 7 feet and play the center position you are going to get many rebounds by default. It is just the nature of the 5 spot. Again he was a decent rebounder.

Outplayed by Hakeem? I think you mean he was thoroughly dominated. Choose any center of all time that could be put on the Spurs and they would have more success? Hmmm, Shaquille O'Neal, Bill Russell, Nate Thurmond, Bill Walton, George Mikan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and Wilt Chamberlain.

Again you continue to underrate the man is try to disvalue what he has done. Again dude was a great defensive player. The name of defense it to get stops and he did that. The man protected the basket period. I brought up his steals numbers to show you that he affected the game defensively more ways than one. The man caused and created turnovers. Again that keeps the other team from scoring.

Just cause you are 7 feet doesn't mean you will get rebounds. Ask Shawn Bradley and many of the other 7 footers about that. In fact height is the MOST overrated aspect of rebounding. Barkley was a 6'4 PF but he was the best rebounder around. Rodman was a undersized power forward yet again he was one of the best rebounders of all time. If it was so easy for 7 footers to get rebounds then how come these guys that claimed moved him out of paint so easily get more rebounds than him?? Like I said man you don't LEAD THE NBA in rebounds and just be DECENT. A decent rebounder would be somebody like Dirk who gets you around 8 a game. But Robinson who would get you around 12 before the injury was far from decent.

I didn't ask what centers from an all time list would have done better with that team. I asked you name a center from his era outside of Hakeem. You come throwing out names from the 60's. Those are guys that you never saw play. You can't say for sure any of those guys would have done better. Bill Walton wouldn't have. Seeing how he spent more time on the sideline than on the court. Then throw in the fact that he was never the scorer or the shot blocker that Robinson was in the NBA.

You want to talk about overrated. Bill Walton's NBA career is one of the most overrated ever. The man never played a full season until he was an off the bench role player for the Celtics. Hell he missed more games than he played and never really dominated on the NBA level like he did in college. He was a good NBA player who never was healthy. There is no way he is one of the NBA's top 50 players. College maybe the best ever but NBA he wasn't.

I can't believe you even brought up George Mikan. He was done playing before pretty much everybody here was born. You have no idea if he would even be able to play in todays game. When he played he was biggest guy around. 6'10 guys come a dime a dozen today. He definantly wouldn't dominate todays game.

So I will ask the question again. What center could you have replaced him with from HIS TIME and would have done better besides Hakeem or Shaq??

[AlexBrady]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

So I will ask the question again. What center could you have replaced him with from HIS TIME and would have done better besides Hakeem or Shaq??[/quote]

Nobody. Robinson was the 3rd best center during his era.

[ehh]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

More like Cliff Robinson. Stockton could make anyone look much better than they truly were.

UConn biatch!!

[J.R. Locke]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

I don't and never did like comparing players that play different positions

Or different eras....lists....ugh

[z Revis]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

Ah, there's Reggie. They put him at 86. That's a shame. Should be much higher.

[KG]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

Do you think playing with Tim Duncan has a little something to do with the rings? How about Parker not being an explosive and confrontational teammate (ala Payton). Payton was a good player, just not all he was made out to be.

Yes he did but he outplayed JKidd for his 1st ring despite rumors that the Spurs wanted Kidd.

[AlexBrady]

Re: "RealGM" top 100 NBA player of all time list

Yes he did but he outplayed JKidd for his 1st ring despite rumors that the Spurs wanted Kidd.

Absolutely, Parker is a very good player. Never said he wasn't.