The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

[Vikingfan84]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Tough between Lebron and Kobe. I picked Lebron though. Garnett is definitely 3rd.

[Rocky]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Between Moses, Kobe, KG, and Lebron, I don't think there is a definitive #1.

Moses Malone's resume is by far the most impressive. It's not even an argument.

Kevin Garnett influenced the NBA unlike anybody on the list. He carried a franchise unlike anybody maybe ever.

Kobe Bryant has the rings and you can't take that away. His ability and accolades speak for themselves.

Lebron James's game is just that of a winner. It's not so much his stats opposed to him almost instantly making his teammates better with his basketball IQ and playmaking ability.

A crapshoot, IMO.

[DC]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

For the 55th time, unless two players are on the SAME level; rings can't be brought up in a discussion to separate players' value.

Example; Don't say, "I guess that means RObert Horry (role player) is better than The Mailman (not a role player) since he has more rings than him."

[st0rmb11]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

I've seen Kobe countless times in his career, and I'm really dumbfounded as to why he is dubbed "the ultimate closer". I keep seeing people mentioning that in this thread. "Kobe's the best on the list because he's the ultimate closer in the 4th quarter."
Now, I've seen Kobe go off in the 4th maybe..twice. The announcers WANT him to be a closer. As soon as he hits his first shot of the 4th quarter, they're like "here he comes..he's coming to life.."..blah blah..but they never mention when he just fires up shot after shot in the 4th and misses 3/4 of them. He's not consistently a great closer. Yeah, he's won a handful of games in the 4th quarter for the Lakers, but he's also gone cold and lost games for them as well. And, I've only seen him hit 1 buzzer beater in his career, and that is the ultimate example of clutch.

I'm not sure why he's annointed this legendary closer. I've seen LeBron be more impressive in the 4th quarter. Larry Bird was a closer. Reggie Miller was a closer. MICHAEL JORDAN WAS A CLOSER. (Mariano Rivera is the ultimate closer...)

I have nothing against Kobe's game. To me, he's been the best player in the NBA for 3 years now (ever since he realized he has to pass to win). Now, I think Dwayne Wade is going to catch him (sorry LeBron..gotta work on that shot)


All that said, again, Moses Malone (going by accomplishments, as so many of you are), has one accomplishment that none of the others have, and none of the others will have for probably 10 more years..he's a HALL OF FAMER. Until Kobe makes the Hall of Fame, Moses is the greatest High Schooler to play in the league. If Kobe retired today, 5 years from now when he's in the Hall of Fame, and someone has another thread like this, I'll come in and definatively vote and defend Kobe Bryant. But, until then, it's Mr. Malone.

[Brankles]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

If Lebron breaks his knee, people will say, "man, that guy could have been great" and he will NOT be a first ballot HoF.

If Kobe retires tonight, he's a first ballot HoF and still the most dominant guard of the last ten years.

That's because no one who plays in the NBA for 5 seasons gets to go into the basketball Hall of Fame.

But this isn't an argument about who has the greatest legacy so far... this is an argument about who is "The Best High Schooler to ever play in the NBA"

People don't like to make this discussion about championships, but at the end of the day if you're in the league for 15 or 20 years and you don't have a stretch where you dominate your competition, you don't get to be in the same discussion as guys who have been to the Finals six times.

This question of "the Best" is a retrospective, IMO. The best is a summation of how one performed in the league.

Looking at LeBron right now and Kobe retrospectively, LeBron is a better player than Kobe has been and will be.

Regardless, bringing up that KG thing is a straw man argument that's only one step from the "well (Roleplayer) has (number of) rings, is he better than Charles Barkley?"

If you think Lebron has had a better career than Kobe, that's all good, but don't use that tired, lame argument to prove it. Experienced OSers should be way past that now. You can not like Kobe, you can think Lebron or Wade is better right now, but when looking at Kobe's career, he shut down all the nonsense.

We can stop giving all of his rings to Shaq.
We can stop comparing him to McGrady.
We can stop comparing him to Iverson and VC.
It's over, let it go.
Kobe was the best and most dominant perimeter force during his prime years in the league.

Lebron is in the same position Kobe was in when all of those high scoring guards came into the league. If he dominates those guys, he's the best. If Dwight Howard, or Chris Paul or Brandon Roy or any of his peers go to the Finals and get rings on Lebron's watch for his entire career, then no dice. You have to win to be in the ultimate group.

That's why when players kick and scream at management, demanding some help, demanding some weapons, I feel them. Of all the missteps Lebron has taken, I don't count his contract situation among them. He knows that if he doesn't get the weapons to compete, he will remain well within the shadows of the champions before him, and around him. Going the KG route is nice for documentary shorts with Bill Russell and sappy strings in the background, but competitors don't just sit there and take it when management asks them to win with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown and Ricky Davis and Trenton Hassell. They bitch and moan until you bring in Pau Gasol and Mo Wiiliams and Ron Artest.

If the wealthiest man in the world lives in Ethiopia and the second wealthiest man in the world lives in the United States, who is wealthier? If the smartest man in the world goes to community college and the second smartest man in the world goes to Harvard, who is smarter?

Was the Kobe Bryant in 2004-05 (lottery) not as good as the Kobe Bryant in 2002-03 (championship)?

Just because someone has the benefit of being on great teams does not make them better than another player.

We saw Kobe Bryant on bad teams and we saw LeBron on bad teams. LeBron took a bad team to the Finals. Kobe took the only bad teams he's ever been on to the lottery and two consecutive first round exits.

LeBron's best teammate in his first 5 NBA seasons has been Mo Williams, who made his first All-Star game this season because he was second on the "fill-in" list when two players went down with injury. Kobe had three players (+1 if you want to count Trevor Ariza, which I'm sure a lot of Lakers fans do) on the Lakers this year better than Mo Williams.


Like I said earlier, it's not like LeBron's teams lose while he puts up great numbers at his team's detriment. If that was the case, I wouldn't argue this point.

The 5 leading playoff scorers on the Cavs team (50-32) he took to the Finals?
1.) LeBron (25, 8 and 8)
2.) Zydrunas Ilgauskas (12 and 10)
3.) Drew Gooden (11 and 8)
4.) Larry Hughes (11, 4 and 2)
5.) Sasha Pavlovic (9, 3 and 2)

If he can have success on teams like this, it says a lot to me. Kobe was placed in the same position and failed. LeBron has not even been remotely close to the outstanding situations Kobe Bryant has been in.


I've already said this, but I think LeBron is the best high schooler to ever play in the NBA and right now is better than any Kobe Bryant in any season. Statistically, physically, emotionally as a teammate... better.

I would say LeBron needs to significantly step up his sportsmanship, though

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

The Hall of Fame argument is nearly as ******** as the "Horry's rings" argument.

And I mean really, really ********. The basketball Hall of Fame isn't even an exclusively NBA related accomplishment and you're not eligible until five years after you retire. On top of that, everyone and their granny knows that Kobe is a first ballot Hall of Famer if he retires right this very second.

If his HoF status was in question at all, it wouldn't be so ridiculous.

[Brankles]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

What does Kobes cheating have to do with being the best at basketball...they all cheat
and A.C Green is a Liar

you dislike the guy, we get it.

Facts are Facts.

Kobe is the best high school talent to ever touch the NBA SO FAR...LeBron maybe can get there.

Not a fact.

Kobe AND Shaq accomplished so much TOGETHER, he wasnt some retarted second fiddle, he was a main component to winning, trying to downplay his achievmants based on your dislike for the guy is a classic straw man argument.

Shaq also went to the Finals with Penny and Wade. Wade won Finals MVP with Shaq.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Not a fact.



Shaq also went to the Finals with Penny and Wade. Wade won Finals MVP with Shaq.

Just sad.

[Brankles]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

The Hall of Fame argument is nearly as ******** as the "Horry's rings" argument.

And I mean really, really ********. The basketball Hall of Fame isn't even an exclusively NBA related accomplishment and you're not eligible until five years after you retire. On top of that, everyone and their granny knows that Kobe is a first ballot Hall of Famer if he retires right this very second.

If his HoF status was in question at all, it wouldn't be so ridiculous.

What are you talking about? In my post I was completely disregarding the Hall of Fame argument. It's more ******** that you even initially brought it up.

I shouldn't have even addressed it to be honest. The rest of my post is what I really wanted you to read.

Just sad.

Why?
Penny and Wade were also main components of Shaq getting to the NBA Finals.

You really love this guy, don't you? Like it's to the point where even mentioning him not being as good as another player upsets you.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

What are you talking about? In my post I was completely disregarding the Hall of Fame argument. It's more ******** that you even initially brought it up.

I shouldn't have even addressed it to be honest. The rest of my post is what I really wanted you to read.

It's always about you, innit? I was actually addressing this guy, primarily.

All that said, again, Moses Malone (going by accomplishments, as so many of you are), has one accomplishment that none of the others have, and none of the others will have for probably 10 more years..he's a HALL OF FAMER. Until Kobe makes the Hall of Fame, Moses is the greatest High Schooler to play in the league. If Kobe retired today, 5 years from now when he's in the Hall of Fame, and someone has another thread like this, I'll come in and definatively vote and defend Kobe Bryant. But, until then, it's Mr. Malone.

So...yup.....that happened.

Penny and Wade were also main components of Shaq getting to the NBA Finals.

You really love this guy, don't you? Like it's to the point where even mentioning him not being as good as another player upsets you.

Penny and Shaq were humiliated in the Finals. Wade is a great player, so bringing him up in any capacity doesn't diminish anything Kobe has done, first off. Secondly, Pat Riley loaded that team up in the offseason. The Heat had proven players at every position surrounding Shaq and Wade. Finally, the Miami Heat's lone championship is no comparison to the dominance that Shaq and Kobe exercised during their threepeat. I don't understand what you're trying to say by bringing these things up. Are you saying that Wade and Penny are better than Kobe. Are you saying that Kobe is just an interchangeable piece in Shaq's legacy?

Don't know what you're getting at. It's particularly confusing in reference to this discussion.

[st0rmb11]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

I don't think anyone is trying to compare Penny to Kobe (though I wish I could've seen what Penny could've been without injuries. A legit triple double threat every night out).

And, I think Wade in 2006 was as good as (or maybe better than) Kobe in 2000-2003.

The difference is Shaq. Shaq with Penny wasn't as good as Shaq with Kobe. He was in his prime when he played with Kobe. Shaq with Wade wasn't even as good as Shaq with Penny.
So, to hold it against Wade and Penny that they didn't win 3 championships with Shaq is completely unfair.

Again, I'm not saying Penny and Wade are better than Kobe (though I do think that after they've both retired, Wade will have been a better player than Kobe).

But, to say that Kobe was great because he was able to do what Penny and Wade couldn't do, is just a dumb argument.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Some of ya'll are sad man. Just really sad.

And for the record, I voted Kobe, for obvious reasons and even I don't like the dude(and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with HIS PERSONAL life)but I still respect the man's skill and game to acknowledge his greatness.

[DC]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Kobe > Terrance Williams + CDR

[st0rmb11]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Kobe > Terrance Williams + CDR

? not sure what that has to do with anything, but no dispute here..
Williams and CDR were better college players, though.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

No offense but this is pointless

I'll vote LBJ based on what he'll probably do going forward

Basically synonymous with "Kobe vs. Lebron VOTE NOW!!!"