The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

[Brankles]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

It's always about you, innit? I was actually addressing this guy, primarily.

So...yup.....that happened.

Fair enough. You just posted that immediately after my post, which did address the HOF argument, so that was my response LOL

Penny and Shaq were humiliated in the Finals. Wade is a great player, so bringing him up in any capacity doesn't diminish anything Kobe has done, first off. Secondly, Pat Riley loaded that team up in the offseason. The Heat had proven players at every position surrounding Shaq and Wade. Finally, the Miami Heat's lone championship is no comparison to the dominance that Shaq and Kobe exercised during their threepeat. I don't understand what you're trying to say by bringing these things up. Are you saying that Wade and Penny are better than Kobe. Are you saying that Kobe is just an interchangeable piece in Shaq's legacy?

Don't know what you're getting at. It's particularly confusing in reference to this discussion.

My point is that Shaq was able to take players not as good as Kobe (Wade and Penny) to the Finals, but that doesn't necessarily make them all-time greats. Kobe is an all-time great, don't get me wrong, but he has been in the best team situations of any shooting guard in recent NBA history.

[Dice]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

He listed his rings as one of many accomplishments. How many MVP's, 1st team all NBA's and ASG's does Horry have? Taking one line, bolding it, and making an asinine comparison doesn't make much of a point.

I like how any time someone mentions rings as a good thing, regardless of context, someone chimes in with the inevitable Robert Horry comment.

I did not bold his ring line. BUT it's funny how he list rings first out of all his accomplishments.

4 Rings so far
1 MVP so far
11X All-Star so far
7X All-NBA 1st Team so far
Guaranteed HOF'er

The 'how many rings' argument is a very gray area which I never like going into. The ONLY time rings should be noted in a comparison is when everything else is equal. Rings then become the tie breaker. BUT the 'rings' argument should never be the first thing.

[KG]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Between Moses, Kobe, KG, and Lebron, I don't think there is a definitive #1.

Moses Malone's resume is by far the most impressive. It's not even an argument.

Kevin Garnett influenced the NBA unlike anybody on the list. He carried a franchise unlike anybody maybe ever.

Kobe Bryant has the rings and you can't take that away. His ability and accolades speak for themselves.

Lebron James's game is just that of a winner. It's not so much his stats opposed to him almost instantly making his teammates better with his basketball IQ and playmaking ability.

A crapshoot, IMO.

Moses's resume is very debatable, hence him not being in the top 2 of the poll results.

KG didn't carry a franchise like Lebron has carried Cleveland. LBJ was better as a rook and has accomplished more than what KG did in Minny.

The 'how many rings' argument is a very gray area which I never like going into. The ONLY time rings should be noted in a comparison is when everything else is equal. Rings then become the tie breaker. BUT the 'rings' argument should never be the first thing.

Yeah because that happens all the time.

[Dice]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Kobe was not THE main guy, but he was A main guy. He wasn't an "X Factor role player" that just happened to be on the team. He WAS a main character in the story.

Sort of like how a good pizza needs great sauce and crust. Cheese and other toppings are role players. The crust is the foundation of the pizza. (Shaq). Yall are calling Kobe a green pepper or an anchovie or some piece of the pie that isn't really needed.

YES Shaq was the #1 guy, but Kobe was 1B; not B or C.

Billy Walton said it best.
JOrdan and Pippen were Batman and Robin
Shaq and Kobe were Batman and Superman

I was with you until the Bill Walton quote.

But getting to your point. I never said Kobe was a role player or X-Factor. He was very much an important part of those championship teams. And if the Lakers didn't have him, they don't win those titles.

But this nonsense of 1A and 1B is ridiculous. When you count, do you count '1,2,3,4...' or do you count '1A,1B,2A,2B...'? It's a real messed up theory.

Getting back to that early 2000 Lakers Dynasty, when they handed out the MVP of the Finals during those years, they didn't hand out co-MVP's. Shaq won all of those. And a regular season MVP in the first championship year.

In basics, there can only be one #1 guy. Then afterwords is the #2 guy. Just because Kobe is #2 doesn't take away from his greatness. He just happened to play on the same team of another great player, who at the time was more important than him. Scottie Pippen had no qualms about labeling himself the #2 guy on those Bulls teams. But everybody with basketball sense knows that the Bulls probably wouldn't have won any titles without Scottie.

So in short, there is no such thing as a 1B guy. There is only one #1. The Celtics in the 80's had many great players BUT Bird was THE GUY. And I've never had anybody reference Kevin McHale or Robert Parish as 1A and 1B. Not even the great Bill Walton, who played on some of those Celtics teams. Everybody said Bird was the man. PERIOD! End of story.

So just because your not the #1 guy doesn't mean your team can go on and win without you. And just because your the #2 guy doesn't mean your a role player or X-Factor. #2 guys play an important piece and the team would be incomplete without him.

And yes, I do hate Kobe. He's a great player BUT still couldn't hold Michael Jordan's jockstrap.

[mvb34]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Moses's resume is very debatable, hence him not being in the top 2 of the poll results.



KG didn't carry a franchise like Lebron has carried Cleveland. LBJ was better as a rook and has accomplished more than what KG did in Minny.


Yeah because that happens all the time.

Thats because most the people voting in this poll probably know little about Moses.

How do you distinguish that? Lebron has played in the weaker conference and Lebron teams didn't lose five straight years of first round picks.

[KG]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Thats because most the people voting in this poll probably know little about Moses.

How do you distinguish that? Lebron has played in the weaker conference and Lebron teams didn't lose five straight years of first round picks.

Right, most people don't know about him (Moses) and I feel like some are just basing it off his wiki page or nostalgia.

He has played in the weaker conference but his playoff performances TROUNCE KG's and I'm a KG fan. Like many others have said, KG is better suited for being a #2. His best year in Minny was when Cassell, Spree, and Wally were all healthy. I think 2 of those 3 made the all-star game that year. I hate to bring teammates into the equation but I think they've had similar quality of teammates and Bron led some bums to the Finals without their 2nd highest paid player for most of it.

KG carried that franchise for many years but Lebron has had the weight of the world on his shoulders since Day 1 in Cleveland and look at where he has that franchise.

[Brankles]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

LeBron has done more with nothing than any player I can remember in my 23 years on this earth. He's literally made chicken salad out of chicken s***.

[GSW]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

LeBron has done more with nothing than any player I can remember in my 23 years on this earth. He's literally made chicken salad out of chicken s***.

This is a good point...

youve made good points all thread long actually.

[Jasong7777]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

LeBron has done more with nothing than any player I can remember in my 23 years on this earth. He's literally made chicken salad out of chicken s***.

Can't really argue with that. But if you're not first, you're last.

[mvb34]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

[quote=kgx2thez;2040327926]Right, most people don't know about him (Moses) and I feel like some are just basing it off his wiki page or nostalgia.

He has played in the weaker conference but his playoff performances TROUNCE KG's and I'm a KG fan. Like many others have said, KG is better suited for being a #2. His best year in Minny was when Cassell, Spree, and Wally were all healthy. I think 2 of those 3 made the all-star game that year. I hate to bring teammates into the equation but I think they've had similar quality of teammates and Bron led some bums to the Finals without their 2nd highest paid player for most of it.

KG carried that franchise for many years but Lebron has had the weight of the world on his shoulders since Day 1 in Cleveland and look at where he has that franchise.[/quote]

The weight of the world or Cleveland?

It harder for a big man to carry a franchise alone without a good point guard and a good shooter.. As soon as KG got those parts he got out the first round and played for the conference title.

[Brankles]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Can't really argue with that. But if you're not first, you're last.

As hard as I try to reason out this rings argument, it just won't fly with you guys, will it? It's hard to discuss the grey areas with people who only see things in black and white.

Can't say I didn't try.

[Jasong7777]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

As hard as I try to reason out this rings argument, it just won't fly with you guys, will it? It's hard to discuss the grey areas with people who only see things in black and white.

Can't say I didn't try.

I know that discussing rings doesn't support your argument, but winning is everything in sports.

[KG]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

The weight of the world or Cleveland?

It harder for a big man to carry a franchise alone without a good point guard and a good shooter.. As soon as KG got those parts he got out the first round and played for the conference title.

Cleveland and the rest of the world. I can't think of an athlete that has had so many expectations on them as an 18yr old.

Now you're just making up excuses for KG.

[Brankles]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

I know that discussing rings doesn't support you argument, but winning is everything in sports.

Like I said, this is very black and white to you.

Using your logic, the 20 or 21 year old Kobe Bryant during his first championship is better than the 30 year old Kobe Bryant who lost in the Finals two seasons ago simply because championship Kobe has a ring and runner-up Kobe doesn't. Clearly that's not the case, but in this "Winner's/Loser's" world you've created, that's the way it is.

[Jasong7777]

Re: The Best 'High Schooler' ever to play in the NBA?

Like I said, this is very black and white to you.

Using your logic, the 20 or 21 year old Kobe Bryant during his first championship is better than the 30 year old Kobe Bryant who lost in the Finals two seasons ago simply because championship Kobe has a ring and runner-up Kobe doesn't. Clearly that's not the case, but in this "Winner's/Loser's" world you've created, that's the way it is.

No. My logic is that because these are two great players who both have had successful careers thus far, winning has to be a factor in the equation when trying to seperate the two. Maybe not the main factor, but it has to be in the discussion.