The Allen Iverson Saga

[Muzyk23]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Larry Brown has a message for Allen Iverson: Don't give up.
Iverson's former coach said Friday that he believes the 10-time All-Star "still has a passion to play" and shouldn't retire. An online report this week indicated Iverson had decided to end his career after receiving little interest from NBA teams.
Brown, who coached Iverson in Philadelphia when the guard was voted league MVP in 2001 while leading the 76ers to the NBA Finals, said he's been trying to get in touch with him.
"Anybody that knows him understands how much he loves to play," said Brown, now coaching the Charlotte Bobcats.
Commentator Stephen A. Smith published a statement on his Web site Wednesday that was attributed to Iverson, who said in it that he planned to retire.
It comes after the Memphis Grizzlies waived Iverson on Nov. 17 amid a dispute over Iverson's role with the team. There was also friction between Iverson and the Detroit Pistons last year because he didn't want to come off the bench.
The 76ers have been struggling at the gate and have a fresh void at guard after losing Lou Williams for an estimated eight weeks with a broken jaw. But sources with knowledge of the 76ers' thinking told ESPN.com on Friday that the Sixers do not intend to pursue Iverson, preferring instead to give more minutes to rookie guard Jrue Holiday.
The New York Knicks had briefly discussed signing the 6-foot Iverson, but decided against it. Brown said he wouldn't be a good fit in Charlotte because of the team's abundance of guards.
Brown believes Iverson is "a little embarrassed," and the retirement talk may come from frustration.
"Think about it: You're an MVP in the All-Star Game and an MVP in the league, scored over 20,000 points," Brown said. "You still know you can play, and to not have everybody jump up, it's a pretty humbling thing. But he can play."
Brown says Iverson could get opportunities later in the season. He pointed to Jan. 10, the date contracts are no longer guaranteed for the season, and the trade deadline a month later when several teams may reshape their rosters.
"Some teams might think they aren't as good as they thought," Brown said.
Brown has maintained a close relationship with Iverson despite their famous disputes in Philadelphia, including Iverson's "We're talking about practice!" rant after the 76ers' exit from the 2002 playoffs.
Information from ESPN.com's Marc Stein and The Associated Press was used in this report.
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[P2K]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

The 76ers have been struggling at the gate and have a fresh void at guard after losing Lou Williams for an estimated eight weeks with a broken jaw. But sources with knowledge of the 76ers' thinking told ESPN.com on Friday that the Sixers do not intend to pursue Iverson, preferring instead to give more minutes to rookie guard Jrue Holiday.

Someone in the Sixers FO is using their noggin for once.

[Muzyk23]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4690465&bn_r=ecc

glad sb shares the minority's (on OS) opinion

[yankeesgiants]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

The post player would just be in Allen's way.

LOL @ Iverson running a set offense, let alone the triangle.

He ran 3 offenses: Me, Myself, and Iverson

[NINJAK2]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

You know this offense called the triangle? That offense that 2 of the players that you are mentioning have ran for their entire careers? You're never going to see someone average alot assists in that offense because that's the way the offense is structured. You're comparing apples and oranges. AI has the ball in his hands for 90% of the shot clock on damn near every possession. Stop using assists as a way to determine how much a guy passes. That's like using steals to show someone is a good defensive player. I just love when somebody starts pulling out random stats for no particular reason and doesn't even take everything into account.

MJ was not in the triangle his whole career in Chicago. Phil Jax didn't take over till 89-90 Dakkon and that's when the triangle was introduced to him. The 5 years before it MJ averaged 5.46 assits a game. The rest of his years in Chicago under it, he averaged 5.1. Not a huge drop off in assists bro. Are you saying if you put Lebron James, Chris Paul, Deron Williams or any other willing passer in the triangle they can't average a good amount of assists? It's not just the system, it's also the player's mentality that dictates assists. I also love how people act like MJ was Jason Kidd out there giving up the rock all the time-That guy dominated the ball more than anyone in the history of the game, especially during a time where you couldn't openly play zone and teams were pretty much out there on an island against the greats. I've witnessed him lose games out of an unwillingness to give the rock up to a hot man when he didn't have it that night and continue to jack it up. I've seen him yell at his teammates to give him the rock after they have taken and MADE the basket. I mean you no disrespect.

This is a good read http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/joh...ay-it-aint-so/

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

Why is MJ's name still being mentioned in posts?

There are a select few players who should not be used in this discussion because they are true exceptions to most conventional basketball wisdom

Iverson at this point in his career, is not one of them.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

Why is MJ's name still being mentioned in posts?

There are a select few players who should not be used in this discussion because they are true exceptions to most conventional basketball wisdom

Iverson at this point in his career, is not one of them.

I was responding to someone else ex who tried to say the triangle doesn't promote a lot of assists by a single player. Thanks for your input as it really pushed the thread forward.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

I was responding to someone else ex who tried to say the triangle doesn't promote a lot of assists by a single player. Thanks for your input as it really pushed the thread forward.

And my statement was for both sides of it. MJ's name has no place in this discussion, do you agree?

[NINJAK2]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

And my statement was for both sides of it. MJ's name has no place in this discussion, do you agree?

Yep. If someone brings up something I disagree with though I will respond. Is that ok to do here?

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

Yep. If someone brings up something I disagree with though I will respond. Is that ok to do here?

Sure, but when you do that you're using MJ to deflect the topic at hand. And then I will come in and make the same statement I did originally, which is MJ has nothing to do with AI.

Anyway, keep on pointing out assist numbers as if that proves anything.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

Sure, but when you do that you're using MJ to deflect the topic at hand. And then I will come in and make the same statement I did originally, which is MJ has nothing to do with AI.

Anyway, keep on pointing out assist numbers as if that proves anything.

I was saying that the TRIANGLE has nothing to do with the ability to put up assists as if that's the reason he did not average higher. I put up the numbers to show that the TRIANGLE did not have some huge effect on his abilty to produce assists. That was my only reason for bringing it up.

[wwharton]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

The AI deal will forever be polarizing. There's no way around it. You can give the most objective opinion on Iverson, which means having to bringing up some flaws, and you will get stoned and attacked from everywhere by AI fans. That's just the way it is.

The folks that call AI a loser, punk and so on are strong with those words. Dude will never be a loser IMO. Punk? Nah. Handling his biz like a 4 year old. Uh YEAH lol. You can't deny it. You can be the staunchest AI supporter, you cannot deny he could've handled his issues better. There can't be people that walk around thinking you can just act any ol' way and get what you want without losing respect. But maybe there are...which is disheartening. Yet, alot of people had Iverson pegged from Day 1 and kept that thinking even to this day. People that never gave the guy a chance. That's ugly. I'll never understand that. People like that scare me.

As for the very loyal AI fans...those are the ones calling people that don't bow at the altar of AI "haters". Which is stupid, ignorant and just makes no sense. Can we ban the word "*****"? Please?

Anyway.....Allen Iverson, IMO, attained Tupac status. The 'hood hero. Going against the establishment. Came into the league with a rep that scared off people both on and off the court. Which made him...cool. I never understood it, but whatever. Pure alpha dog. My way is the way I play. How I go about it is the way it is and there is no changing that. Accept me for who I am. You don't like it, so be it...but don't stand in my way. It's this attitude that made AI an icon for a certain segment of the population. Which happens to be a big segment...and made up of people you wouldn't even think of. These folks are way more accepting of AI's many faults. Yes...many.

Here is where I come from on this. As a die hard Sixer fan, I enyoyed Iverson's run here until the last two years. The Finals, the star attraction. Putting the 76ers back on the map.

But, AI's time here was full of turbulence from the second he stepped foot in this city. And he didn't disappoint on his way out. Dude is too damn unstable both on and off the court. Unpredictable with what you were getting. You knew you were getting Allen Iverson. But what was going to be the new issue today? Was he missing practice...still home sleeping off just coming at 6 in the morning? Did a couple dudes in his crew hood stomp some guy outside of a club? Did he not want to be around the team because the head coach wanted to instill discipline? There is ALWAYS something when it comes to Iverson. I know for fact there was alot more trouble that Allen and his people got into. Stuff was taken care of before it got out.

And all that stuff above is outside of the arena when it's game time. Then, you have the on the court problems. Which has been talked about ad nauseum.

I guess this why I side with the faction that...even though I was a big AI fan and loved watching him play, there comes a point where you've had your fill. No mas. Can't take it anymore.

My other thing with the AI deal that I never understood was the whole "idolization" of him because of his backstory. How he came up. All the stuff he went through. Why is he such a hero, an idol? Many of the other superstars and all stars came from the same situation AI did. Where's the same love for them?

I find a need to do this in all the rare times it happens but I agree with everything yous aid in this post P2K, and I think I feel about the same as you about AI.

I don't think some realize the effect on a team when a star player doesn't want to change anything to help the team get better. Say whatever you want about Kobe, Jordan, Magic, etc. They all adjusted their games to benefit the team. A star player not wanting to practice is about as big of a cancer as you can find. A team with a player like AI needs him at practice more than most bc the others have to get a chemistry that works with a system that gives them little chance to get a rhythm, and game situations that are drastically different than practice. Unlike most stars, it doesn't take much a drop in skills for AI to lose relevance bc he HAD to perform at that insanely high level for it to even be worth dealing with him.

I love AI. I believed that he was more interested in winning and just did what he had to in Philly, but I saw the same play from him in Denver. Maybe after so many years it's hard for him to change his play, but there's no excuse for not changing his attitude at this point in his career.

I will say I don't begrudge him the right to want to play out his entire career "his way". However, he shouldn't have signed with the Griz at all if that's the case... and he certainly shouldn't be having a temper tantrum now. He's known for his pride so go out with your head held high. Even if you can't see that you could probably play another 5 years, maybe as a starter or great 6th man, if you just allowed your game to grow into your older body and the current NBA.

For all the "supporters" this is a lesson you may want to carry into other areas of life. When it comes to your job, the only perception that matters are the people you want to hire you. You can be as proud as you want at home. You can list all the stats, cry foul, etc. but the bottom line is no team besides the Griz gave AI a chance this year and no team including the Knicks are knocking down his door now. That is the reality. We can speculate the reason and you can cry about a black ball but the reality is, he changes his thinking, he has a job. I thought the Larry Brown quote was pretty funny. Brown has the power to hire AI. He said a lot... but never offered him a contract. Wake up, AI.

I was wondering what happened to John Thompson in this entire deal

...but why didnt he have this talk with AI before the meltdown?

Im not accusing him of anything but its just ridiculous that he would sit around and wait for the entire thing to blow up before deciding to try to be a mentor

I don't see him as sitting around waiting. AI was on the Griz just a week ago. I listen to the John Thompson show and as an outsider, it seemed like JT was just as shocked as the rest of us how things went down and how fast.

[slimm44]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

I was responding to someone else ex who tried to say the triangle doesn't promote a lot of assists by a single player. Thanks for your input as it really pushed the thread forward.

Who has played in the triangle and had their assist numbers boosted because of it? Or who has played in the triangle and been in the top 5 in assists consistently?

[lilbiggio]

Re: Allen Iverson RETIRING

Thank you A.I..

without you, we wouldn't have arm sleeves.

In all seriousness, A.I. coming off of the bench was a pretty sketchy idea. For a contender perhaps, but on Memphis? What's he going to teach? How to take fouls?

This is really a waiting game at this point, someone is going to make a move for Iverson. He is most certainly not done. Not like this...

[KENYON06]

Re: The Allen Iverson Saga

I haven't been up on my news lately, but why did him going to the Knicks fall through? Knicks didn't want him or what?