Iverson back where he belongs.

[Streets]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

Except for his heart, how can Iverson mentor younger players? The consensus seems to be that he was a super athlete with ridiculous quickness who has been a me-first player on offense. What is he going to teach younger players that would help them win? You can't teach quickness. Heart can be contagious, so he has that one. He's not gonna be practice's number one supporter. He hasn't shown any intangibles that would make me think he could teach someone else how to be a team player. Why is the word mentor even being tossed around? Is there something I'm missing?

I'm not saying he should have been a mentor or that it's his job, just that there was an opportunity there. A lot of these young men probably looked up to AI growing up and he is a very influential figure in the locker room. He could show up for work, be ready for whatever the coach needs, play his heart out when called upon, give encouragement to others, and be apart of the team rather than think he's bigger than the team. Instead of, "Do we want to develop kids or do we want to win basketball games?". I think that's sort of disrespectful to his teammates (though maybe his teammates didn't take it that way). I know he went to Memphis to "win a championship" (HUH??) but it sucks that he believes that it's only possible with him on the floor dominating the ball. It doesn't scream leadership or mentor when rather than encouraging others you're too busy putting them down, calling them kids, and insinuating that AI playing major minutes and taking away from the younger guys is the only way to win (also, undermining the coaching staff).

[slimm44]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

I'm not saying he should have been a mentor or that it's his job, just that there was an opportunity there. A lot of these young men probably looked up to AI growing up and he is a very influential figure in the locker room. He could show up for work, be ready for whatever the coach needs, play his heart out when called upon, give encouragement to others, and be apart of the team rather than think he's bigger than the team. Instead of, "Do we want to develop kids or do we want to win basketball games?". I think that's sort of disrespectful to his teammates (though maybe his teammates didn't take it that way). I know he went to Memphis to "win a championship" (HUH??) but it sucks that he believes that it's only possible with him on the floor dominating the ball. It doesn't scream leadership or mentor when rather than encouraging others you're too busy putting them down, calling them kids, and insinuating that AI playing major minutes and taking away from the younger guys is the only way to win (also, undermining the coaching staff).

I agree completely, the opportunity is there. AI is a polarizing figure and you either really love him, or really hate him based on his heart and persona. He is an alpha dog, a natural born leader, courageous, and has a heart bigger than he is. To mentor takes at least an element of humility and understanding that no matter how big you are, the system you are a part of is bigger. If he could do that, he could be a huge part of almost any team in the league, just on chemistry alone, but he would have to figure out a way to keep that same heart and passion without being the focal point while trying to teach younger players how to have that same passion. Kind of like passing the torch.

[NBA2k8 CHAMP]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

Does anyone have a gif of Stuckey DROPPING AI with the crossover tonight? That's one of the worst ankle breakers ever. He fell as if somebody wax de floor.

Just seen it on sportscenter looked more like a flop and pushoff.

I consider this more of a crossover

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyOpsqBX7Ls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMbhTj8HcU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5tTAhf_iys&feature=related

[P2K]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

I am not sure I am reading this right...are you arguing AGAINST Timmy being a superstar?

Yeah really. I thought I was reading it wrong myself.

Timmy was arguably the best player in the league. LOL c'mon people.

Superstar to me is a player that I look at and say "Good, I have the foundation. Now, time to build upon it." Anybody doesn't like the term, so be it. No problems.

Another thing...I don't understand how anyone not want to look at the big picture and set up your future by giving the young guys as much experience on the court as possible when the team is no good. That to me isn't really tanking. It just seems like the best thing to do. Ex carrabba was right when he said alot of people just don't grasp this concept.

Since 1980, the champs have been:

Lakers - Magic Johnson
Celtics - Larry Bird
Sixers - Julius Erving/Moses Malone
Pistons - Isiah Thomas
Bulls - Michael Jordan
Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
Spurs - Tim Duncan/David Robinson
Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal/Kobe Bryant
Pistons - Billups/B.Wallace/R.Wallace/Prince/Hamilton
Heat - Dwayne Wade
Celtics - Pierce/Garnett/Allen
Lakers - Kobe Bryant

Of all those, only one team won it without a superstar. Detroit of '04. Too rare of an occurance to make this as your reason to argue that you don't need a superstar.

Only one team won it where the main stars weren't drafted by their team. Sixers. Doc was bought and Moses was traded for. Early 2000s' Lakers had a main who was brought in through free agency, yet the other main of that team was a drafted (via trade) player.

Of all those, only two teams won it with drafted players as the main guy who weren't top 5 picks. Pierce's Celtics and Kobe's Lakers of last season. Although, in those seasons, both were joined by former top 5 picks.

Bottom line, you need a superstar player. And alot of the teams that have one now or had one in the past acquired them because they were bad the year before.

[Gibbz]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

The Spurs superstar is a slow moving center who defers to his role players in late game situations.

That is just laughable. What were you thinking as you typed that?

[JBH3]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

What planet are you living on where you an NBA team doesn't need a superstar player?

Speights, Holiday and Thad aren't superstars. At least none of them has shown to be one. This team doesn't have anyone to build around.

Man...you are so abrasive. It's annoying. Where did I say you don't need a superstar in the post you replied to? No where, in any of my posts here, did I say anything to the above.

You're whole stance on "tank the season, secure a lotto pick" is what I was attacking. There's no guarantee that you get a top5. With Thad/Speights/Jrue I was just trying to show that you can FIND talent w/o it having to be a top5 pick.

It's contradictory to think by tanking the season, you're going to develop Jrue or anyone else for that matter. To tank you have to hold someone back, someone who Jrue needs to develop a chemistry with, or take some other adverse route that consequently dwindles away team chemistry. There's 5 players contractually committed to this team for at least the next 3 years. They need to be on the floor showing whether or not they can play together.

Jrue was NEVER EVER going to come in here and start 30+ a gm even if all things were the same and Louis was injured and we DIDN'T sign Iverson. He played sparingly w/ Louis healthy, and with Louis injured he was horrible. That's not going to develop someone, it's going to stagnate development.

He's not KD, LBJ, Amar'e, or some young player who came to the NBA from highschool or from one year of college. He's how John Hollinger put it..."A mystery meat". I wanted Ty Lawson anyways...he's at least ready to play 20 a night.

Superstar to me is a player that I look at and say "Good, I have the foundation. Now, time to build upon it." Anybody doesn't like the term, so be it. No problems.

Another thing...I don't understand how anyone not want to look at the big picture and set up your future by giving the young guys as much experience on the court as possible when the team is no good. That to me isn't really tanking. It just seems like the best thing to do. Ex carrabba was right when he said alot of people just don't grasp this concept.

Since 1980, the champs have been:

Lakers - Magic Johnson
Celtics - Larry Bird
Sixers - Julius Erving/Moses Malone
Pistons - Isiah Thomas
Bulls - Michael Jordan
Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
Spurs - Tim Duncan/David Robinson
Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal/Kobe Bryant
Pistons - Billups/B.Wallace/R.Wallace/Prince/Hamilton
Heat - Dwayne Wade & SHAQ
Celtics - Pierce/Garnett/Allen
Lakers - Kobe Bryant

Of all those, only one team won it without a superstar. Detroit of '04. Too rare of an occurance to make this as your reason to argue that you don't need a superstar.

Only one team won it where the main stars weren't drafted by their team. Sixers. Doc was bought and Moses was traded for. Early 2000s' Lakers had a main who was brought in through free agency, yet the other main of that team was a drafted (via trade) player.

Of all those, only two teams won it with drafted players as the main guy who weren't top 5 picks. Pierce's Celtics and Kobe's Lakers of last season. Although, in those seasons, both were joined by former top 5 picks.

Bottom line, you need a superstar player. And alot of the teams that have one now or had one in the past acquired them because they were bad the year before.

So basically what you've illustrated is that there is no surefire way to put together a championship roster. There's many MANY moving parts that go into acquiring all that is needed to put a championship team together.

Are Thad, Jrue, and Speights the superstar players needed for a ring? Right now. No. Could they at least be a Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, Horace Grant, Ron Harper, Sean Elliott, Mario Elie, or some "glue" type player? Yup.

My idea is that regardless of netting a top5 pick. This team isn't going to win anything significant w/ Igoudala or Brand. Do I like these players? Yes. Philly had to lock-up Iggy. You just can't let him walk. Brand was a very risky move that has yet to pan out, maybe never will. But at the time, and for the last decade Philly had no post-offense. They tried with Webber and we know how that worked out. Elton Brand is starting to be eerily similar to that.

I agree we need a clear-cut superstar. I just don't agree w/ tanking the season, or starting a 19 yr old combo guard that isn't ready, and therefore don't agree that Iverson is setting us back.

[P2K]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

Man...you are so abrasive. It's annoying. Where did I say you don't need a superstar in the post you replied to? No where, in any of my posts here, did I say anything to the above.

You're whole stance on "tank the season, secure a lotto pick" is what I was attacking. There's no guarantee that you get a top5. With Thad/Speights/Jrue I was just trying to show that you can FIND talent w/o it having to be a top5 pick.

It's contradictory to think by tanking the season, you're going to develop Jrue or anyone else for that matter. To tank you have to hold someone back, someone who Jrue needs to develop a chemistry with, or take some other adverse route that consequently dwindles away team chemistry. There's 5 players contractually committed to this team for at least the next 3 years. They need to be on the floor showing whether or not they can play together.

Jrue was NEVER EVER going to come in here and start 30+ a gm even if all things were the same and Louis was injured and we DIDN'T sign Iverson. He played sparingly w/ Louis healthy, and with Louis injured he was horrible. That's not going to develop someone, it's going to stagnate development.

He's not KD, LBJ, Amar'e, or some young player who came to the NBA from highschool or from one year of college. He's how John Hollinger put it..."A mystery meat". I wanted Ty Lawson anyways...he's at least ready to play 20 a night.



So basically what you've illustrated is that there is no surefire way to put together a championship roster. There's many MANY moving parts that go into acquiring all that is needed to put a championship team together.

Are Thad, Jrue, and Speights the superstar players needed for a ring? Right now. No. Could they at least be a Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, Horace Grant, Ron Harper, Sean Elliott, Mario Elie, or some "glue" type player? Yup.

My idea is that regardless of netting a top5 pick. This team isn't going to win anything significant w/ Igoudala or Brand. Do I like these players? Yes. Philly had to lock-up Iggy. You just can't let him walk. Brand was a very risky move that has yet to pan out, maybe never will. But at the time, and for the last decade Philly had no post-offense. They tried with Webber and we know how that worked out. Elton Brand is starting to be eerily similar to that.

I agree we need a clear-cut superstar. I just don't agree w/ tanking the season, or starting a 19 yr old combo guard that isn't ready, and therefore don't agree that Iverson is setting us back.

LOL he said I'm abrasive and annoying. Pot, meet Kettle. Anyway, I'm sick of this going in circles stuff.

You can get the last word, for all I care.....but, we'll just agree to disagree.

[slimm44]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

Is Philly still maintaining their excitement about Iverson coming back to town since they have lost their first 4 games with him on the roster? I was hoping he would have a better showing than he is, but I guess I was wrong.

[NYCBred]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

Is Philly still maintaining their excitement about Iverson coming back to town since they have lost their first 4 games with him on the roster? I was hoping he would have a better showing than he is, but I guess I was wrong.

So your going to blame the 4 losses(3 with AI) all on Iverson? This is exactly why I dont like to argue with some of you guys because yall dont have legitimate arguements. If you even watched the the 4 games he has had in Philly you can easily tell that they play better when he is on the court.

The dude has put up 20 in two straight nights and that is without playing for a month or even practicing please give the guy a break.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

Is Philly still maintaining their excitement about Iverson coming back to town since they have lost their first 4 games with him on the roster? I was hoping he would have a better showing than he is, but I guess I was wrong.

Umm they won thier last game against Golden State and Iverson had a great game scoring 20 points on only 10 shots with only 1 turnover.

[Streets]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

Reading comprehension FTL.

He didn't say anything about the losses being anyone's fault. He asked if the city is still excited given that the team has not improved with him and are still bottom-dwellers.

[NYCBred]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

Reading comprehension FTL.

He didn't say anything about the losses being anyone's fault. He asked if the city is still excited given that the team has not improved with him and are still bottom-dwellers.

I read what he said and he said he thought that Iverson would have had a better showing than he has had since coming to Philly. You should try reading comprehension.

[Streets]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

I read what he said and he said he thought that Iverson would have had a better showing than he has had since coming to Philly. You should try reading comprehension.

No, I get that. But he wasn't blamaing Iverson for the losses. He just wondered if the excitement is still there since the team still sucks. He also said that he thought Iverson would perform better, but to be honest, so did I. It's not "hating on Iverson" to have high expectations for the guy. He also didn't say that Iverson or the team can't improve. I just feel like sometimes people get up in arms about anything said about Iverson and if he isn't being worshipped it's hate. There's nothing wrong with postulating whether or not excitement has waned since the shock of his return has passed and the team is still struggling, nor is their anything wrong with saying "I expected he'd do more".

[PrettyT11]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

Reading comprehension FTL.

He didn't say anything about the losses being anyone's fault. He asked if the city is still excited given that the team has not improved with him and are still bottom-dwellers.

I don't know if this was directed to me, the other guy, or both but all I did was point out that he was wrong about the team losing every game since Iverson was on the team. Also I just stated that he played very well in that last game.

[Streets]

Re: Iverson back where he belongs.

I don't know if this was directed to me, the other guy, or both but all I did was point out that he was wrong about the team losing every game since Iverson was on the team. Also I just stated that he played very well in that last game.

Naw it wasn't directed at you (sorry). Also, I didn't see the last game but I did see him heat up in the second half and almost take out my Rockets. My man Brooks was too much for him though and we barely pulled that one out. Still, he's coming along, but I expect more (just like I do from McGrady). If you say you're ready, and you think you're the same player you were in 2001 or whenever, you gotta prove it. I think he's just settling in, and we'll see how things go after a week or two.