Parker to Knicks Rumor

[wwharton]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but some of the things you're saying seem a little off too me. Chicago just appointed an unproven 21 year assistant as head coach, you don't know what you're going to get from him so you don't have anything to hang your hat on except his defensive schemes, which are pretty good...but LeBron already went through a similar situation with Mike Brown, seems like that'd be more of a "con" than a "pro" for the team.

And while the Cavs aren't as bad as they were when Eric Snow was "playing" for them and 'Bron was carrying the team on his shoulders...I can't say that they're that much better off now. They have two bonafide key players in Jamison and Mo, but apparently they're shopping Mo and Delonte (yes I know it's a rumor.) If they trade those two then maybe they can create some cap space but then they'd be short two of their better players on the roster. If they keep them and continue to be hamstrung by their current roster then what's the team's future looking like? The team on paper isn't as bad as the '06-'07 or '07-'08 versions, but what does their future look like when LeBron is now 4 years into his new deal with the team?

But add to everything that you said: the Knicks already have a quality coach in place, a quality GM in place, talent on the roster, and a player that we can package in a deal to Toronto to get Bosh if he wants to follow LeBron, and you can make a case for LeBron, or any other free agent signing here. Not because "omg it's New York" but because Donnie Walsh took a dumpster fire and turned it into a destination that actually has a future now.

There are pros and cons for every team that has enough cap space to sign/keep any of these free agents, and the Knicks are one of them...regardless of whether or not you like the team/city/it's people/etc. (not any one person in particular, or any one team in particular for that matter, just in general) that's just how it is. Not because we want any one player, but because Donnie fixed Isiah's mess in 2 years and has us in this position.

It just seems like in this case a lot of people tend to act like the pros don't exist solely to thumb their nose at the city.

Commenting on this to explain my point but also bc it's generally a good post. Your last sentence isn't necessary... that changes the whole tone to create the back and forth that you're so frustrated by. On to the meat of the post...

The Cavs are built for Lebron. On their own without him, they're a mess but the players in place are specifically there to support him, even if they haven't been coached well offensively to get it done. They have talent. I don't know how you think the Knicks have a ton of talent, especially after making moves to get LBJ and Bosh. If it somehow happened, they would still be years away from contending for a championship. Of the teams being mentioned (CLE, CHI, LAC, Nets, MIA, NYK) I'd say next year the Knicks would look the worse with LBJ in the lineup. I wouldn't say they HAVE done a good job of cleaning up Isaiah's mess, I'd say they ARE doing a good job of it. They are far from there yet... LBJ would get them closer but the picture isn't as pretty as you're painting it.

[Pared]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

And btw, I love NYC and I'm not generalizing you bc I don't know you, but the stereotypical new yorker attitude that if you don't agree then you're just a ***** is exactly what rubs people the wrong way. Whether it's your intention or not, that's how all of this is coming across.

You are such a *****.

[wwharton]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

You are such a *****.

Please, lol. Give me a bench in Brooklyn in the summer with all the talent walking around... no way I could hate NYC.

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

Commenting on this to explain my point but also bc it's generally a good post. Your last sentence isn't necessary... that changes the whole tone to create the back and forth that you're so frustrated by. On to the meat of the post...

The Cavs are built for Lebron. On their own without him, they're a mess but the players in place are specifically there to support him, even if they haven't been coached well offensively to get it done. They have talent. I don't know how you think the Knicks have a ton of talent, especially after making moves to get LBJ and Bosh. If it somehow happened, they would still be years away from contending for a championship. Of the teams being mentioned (CLE, CHI, LAC, Nets, MIA, NYK) I'd say next year the Knicks would look the worse with LBJ in the lineup. I wouldn't say they HAVE done a good job of cleaning up Isaiah's mess, I'd say they ARE doing a good job of it. They are far from there yet... LBJ would get them closer but the picture isn't as pretty as you're painting it.

I never said that we had a ton of talent on our roster, but that's not to say that we don't have talent at all.

But you just pointed out the cons for the team if we got LBJ, which I agree with, it'd would still be a relatively weaker team compared to the projected rosters for other teams.

But there are no pros what so ever? It's just "we'd be a weaker team?" It wouldn't be a nice balance to have LBJ, Bosh (I assume he'd be coming in a sign and trade since Toronto doesn't want to watch him walk for nothing,) and Gallo? Get a PG that just worries about distributing the ball (Douglas might be able to fit that mold) and another big to anchor the paint with Bosh? (maybe in the draft? all we'd need is a big mofo to play some D down low and rebound)

All I'm saying is this...for other teams I see people saying why it could possibly work and why it might not work, or why James would sign or wouldn't sign, etc. For the Knicks all I see are reasons why he wouldn't sign, it's always a Knicks fan who's talking about why he would sign, or why it could work if...

Personally, I thought that with Donnie Walsh's ability to run an organization and D'Antoni's system, that if we put LBJ, Bosh, and Gallo on one team that still had some money to burn and a few role players around them, that would get an "oh ****" out of someone. I mean...I though that if D'Antoni can have a core of Nash, Amar'e, and Marion in '06 and have that kind of success, I didn't think Jamse, Bosh and Gallo would be a bad place to start and I assumed more people would look at that possibility and throw us right in there as possible destinations for James.

But it is what it is, I'm not calling anyone a *****, I'm just confused by how people are ignoring the possible players/coach/system combo and always talking about what we can't do, what we don't have, meanwhile for other teams it's all about what they can do and what they do have.

[Cebby]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but some of the things you're saying seem a little off too me. Chicago just appointed an unproven 21 year assistant as head coach, you don't know what you're going to get from him so you don't have anything to hang your hat on except his defensive schemes, which are pretty good...but LeBron already went through a similar situation with Mike Brown, seems like that'd be more of a "con" than a "pro" for the team.

And the Knicks have a coach who has never won anything despite having talented rosters in Phoenix.

And while the Cavs aren't as bad as they were when Eric Snow was "playing" for them and 'Bron was carrying the team on his shoulders...I can't say that they're that much better off now.

Then you're crazy.

talent on the roster, and a player that we can package in a deal to Toronto to get Bosh if he wants to follow LeBron,

What talent?

They have Chandler, Gallinari, and Douglas, none of whom are all that good and to get Bosh they would have to lose at least one of those.

If Lebron went to New York they would have a bench composed of minimum salary players.

[NYJets]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

They have Chandler, Gallinari, and Douglas, none of whom are all that good and to get Bosh they would have to lose at least one of those.

Neither of those things are true.

[Cebby]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

Neither of those things are true.

1. If they're so good why did the Knicks win 29 games with Lee?

2. How exactly do you plan on trading for Bosh without giving them up and with no draft pick to trade?

[wwharton]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

I never said that we had a ton of talent on our roster, but that's not to say that we don't have talent at all.

But you just pointed out the cons for the team if we got LBJ, which I agree with, it'd would still be a relatively weaker team compared to the projected rosters for other teams.

But there are no pros what so ever? It's just "we'd be a weaker team?" It wouldn't be a nice balance to have LBJ, Bosh (I assume he'd be coming in a sign and trade since Toronto doesn't want to watch him walk for nothing,) and Gallo? Get a PG that just worries about distributing the ball (Douglas might be able to fit that mold) and another big to anchor the paint with Bosh? (maybe in the draft? all we'd need is a big mofo to play some D down low and rebound)

All I'm saying is this...for other teams I see people saying why it could possibly work and why it might not work, or why James would sign or wouldn't sign, etc. For the Knicks all I see are reasons why he wouldn't sign, it's always a Knicks fan who's talking about why he would sign, or why it could work if...

Personally, I thought that with Donnie Walsh's ability to run an organization and D'Antoni's system, that if we put LBJ, Bosh, and Gallo on one team that still had some money to burn and a few role players around them, that would get an "oh ****" out of someone. I mean...I though that if D'Antoni can have a core of Nash, Amar'e, and Marion in '06 and have that kind of success, I didn't think Jamse, Bosh and Gallo would be a bad place to start and I assumed more people would look at that possibility and throw us right in there as possible destinations for James.

But it is what it is, I'm not calling anyone a *****, I'm just confused by how people are ignoring the possible players/coach/system combo and always talking about what we can't do, what we don't have, meanwhile for other teams it's all about what they can do and what they do have.

I think the main problem here is that you're a bit late to the party. There was at least one (I think two) loooong threads pretty much focused on the pluses and minuses of LBJ going to the Knicks. That's probably why you aren't seeing much talk about it now.

Honestly, I wish you were in that thread because you're talking more about what the team offers than the city. Either way, I don't look at it as a pluses and minuses thing as he's weighing the value of one team vs others. All teams have pluses and minuses as you said, but what should be important is which teams have the best ratio of pluses to minuses. Of all the teams being mentioned, I'd say the Knicks are at the bottom of that list. That's the reason people started talking about NYC being the mecca of basketball, financial opportunities, etc. in their argument for him going to NYC... the team doesn't really stack up on the court when compared to his other options.

The Suns team you're talking about had a lot more around those players mentioned than the Knicks could put together. Remember Joe Johnson was a role player in Pheonix. They also were exciting to watch but never won a thing, and the logical assumption is bc they didn't play D which is much needed in the playoffs. That could be a big knock on the coach.

They also wouldn't have extra money for role players. They'd basically surround those guys with league minimum players. There would seriously need to be a lot of things to fall right to form some kind of decent team to just get role players. Like anywhere else, in a couple of years they could build a solid squad with those guys as the core, but I don't see any reason LBJ wouldn't want to win now or in the very near future, and I don't see that possibility there.

My only argument for LBJ going to NYC is that logic doesn't need to play a role in his decision. He's going to go where he wants. He could pick a team bc of their colors if he wants to. We know he likes NYC so that may be enough, who knows. I just don't think it's the smart choice.

[NYJets]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

1. If they're so good why did the Knicks win 29 games with Lee?

2. How exactly do you plan on trading for Bosh without giving them up and with no draft pick to trade?

They are young. Douglas is a rookie, Gallo was basically playing his rookie season. They were also playing with selfish teammates who were all on the last year of their deal, playing for nothing but a contract

Bosh has not come out and said that he would only accept a sign and trade. That is not a done deal. And if he does end up wanting a sign and trade, the Knicks can sign and trade Lee.

[Cebby]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

Bosh has not come out and said that he would only accept a sign and trade. That is not a done deal. And if he does end up wanting a sign and trade, the Knicks can sign and trade Lee.

Bosh has mentioned he wants a sign and trade numerous times.

And no, the Knicks can't sign and trade Lee. Toronto wouldn't want him and he wouldn't want to go to Toronto.

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

And why wouldn't Toronto want him?

[Cebby]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

And why wouldn't Toronto want him?

The already have 3 players who range from somewhat overpaid to "WTF were we thinking?!?!"

Given that getting Lee to waste the prime of his career in Toronto would likely require him to sign close to a max contract, I really can't see the Raptors wanting him.

I doubt the Raptors want to be paying four players 10+ million a piece when they have no shot of doing anything.

[NYJets]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

Bosh has mentioned he wants a sign and trade numerous times.

And no, the Knicks can't sign and trade Lee. Toronto wouldn't want him and he wouldn't want to go to Toronto.

Where? I've seen nothing but speculation.

And give me a break on Lee not wanting to go to Toronto. You have no idea about that, and it doesn't make much sense. Last year not one team offered Lee anywhere near what he wanted, but now, when he's a in a free agent class where he is probably the 5th best big available if Dirk opts out, he's going to turn down down money so he can pick and chose a city? Please.

And Lee is probably the best player the Raptors could get for Bosh. If they don't want to get good players for Bosh than they would just let him walk.

[ehh]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

I'm young; you're delusional.

How am I delusional?

[Cebby]

Re: Parker to Knicks Rumor

Where? I've seen nothing but speculation.

The list of teams he gave to his owner to arrange a sign and trade with would be the most obvious thing.

And give me a break on Lee not wanting to go to Toronto. You have no idea about that, and it doesn't make much sense. Last year not one team offered Lee anywhere near what he wanted, but now, when he's a in a free agent class where he is probably the 5th best big available if Dirk opts out, he's going to turn down down money so he can pick and chose a city? Please.

Yes, I think it's likely that he will turn down money to go to what will be an at best 30 win team over the duration of his contract.

People take paycuts all the time to go from average teams to contenders. I would think players would take a bigger paycut to not have to play for the team in the NBA in the worst position longterm.

And Lee is probably the best player the Raptors could get for Bosh. If they don't want to get good players for Bosh than they would just let him walk.

He may be the best individual player, but he would be by far the worst value. Looking at what they had to pay Turk to come and Bargs and Jose to stay, they'd be looking at a huge contract.

Something like Hinrich, Gibson, and the #17 gives them much more flexibility at a much lower price.

They aren't in a win now situation, and even if they were you aren't going to "win now" by trading the best player from a forty win team for a much worse player on a 29 win team.