The LeBron James Thread

[ehh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

There's pretty much nothing NYC can do for Lebron financially.

I don't understand how anyone can say this with certainty right now. All of the opinions in the media vary so much on this topic.

[USF11]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Not Sure of NBA rules BUT..

Can you sign Lebron as a player coach to pay him more then the max?

[ehh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Not Sure of NBA rules BUT..

Can you sign Lebron as a player coach to pay him more then the max?

That is funny and a good question. Doubt anyone knows the answer though.


On another note....

[Kriech23]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

For some reason I have a feeling about him signing with the Nets. Just imagine, LeBron, Harris, Lopez, Lee, Wall or Turner, and whoever else plays for the Nets lol.

If not there then the Bulls. If he wants to win, and win quick he'll go to the Bulls.

[brahmagoul]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I still question the chemistry issue if he plays with a true point guard or someone that has to have the ball, like Rose or Wade.

Staying in Cleveland would be best for his legacy. I still think going to the Clippers would be a joke. Donald Sterling has a horrible track record as an owner, as does Paul Dolan, who's only better than his brother Larry.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

What happens if the Nets end up with the 3rd, 4th or 5th pick? Not saying that's definitely what they'll get, but it is possible. Just cause you have the best chance to get number one doesn't mean you're getting that or number two even. Where do things go from there as far as LeBron. Obviously they'll still push for him, but what are they're chances then?

[HMcCoy]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

LeBron's marketing opportunities are irrelevant. He's not going to become a billionaire from commercials and kicks. LeBorns first major business undertaking is his sports management firm, and that conglomeration of folks has quietly struck out on the last three prospects they've groomed...Derrick Rose, Tryeke Evans, and now John Wall. All were herded through Caliperi and expected to join the James/Leon Rose/Wesley power group. All three declined and went with better conncected reps. I think those guys realized that Lebrons business posse has very little real power, influence, or credibility, and while getting James endorsements really isn't that difficult, they haven't proven they have the connects to get less established players big money.

LeBron doesn't need NY, but the James camp could sure use that base of operations. That scares me.

Gilbert and the Cavs should keep working to build their Chinese connection, and hopefully the casinos should liven up the party scene again...making CLE a bit more attractive to FA's.

I expect Bron to sign another short extension and in 3 years dip to Brooklyn in grand fashion as long as Lopez and their cast pans out.

[ehh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

What happens if the Nets end up with the 3rd, 4th or 5th pick? Not saying that's definitely what they'll get, but it is possible. Just cause you have the best chance to get number one doesn't mean you're getting that or number two even. Where do things go from there as far as LeBron. Obviously they'll still push for him, but what are they're chances then?

They're guaranteed a Top 4 pick. I wouldn't be surprised if Turner was a better fit for them long term than Wall anyway.

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

LBJ would def make more $$$ in nyc, esp if cablevision the owner of the knicks can offer him his own on demand channel teaching kids tips on how to get better in basketball

Yeah, and the strip clubs already promised free lap dances. You really think that if LBJ wanted a channel (an entire channel, lol... lots of repeats I guess) to do that he couldn't go to any cable company today? I don't know where this idea of NYC having the pull of the '90s is coming from. That old Frank Sinatra song doesn't apply to Lebron James.

I don't understand how anyone can say this with certainty right now. All of the opinions in the media vary so much on this topic.

I seriously don't know what you're talking about. This isn't major league baseball. Are you talking about the contract (CLE can offer the most under the cap... no question)? Are you talking about it being NY (see above post and every other one in this thread)?

[Streets]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Yeah, I mean Walsh isn't the greatest GM in the world but he's a thousand times better than Zeke who's obviously one of the worst in the history of the NBA. Walsh gets his franchises to the post season (not that it's hard since half the damn league makes it) and keeps them in good financial situations. His personnel decisions are nothing amazing though

I don't know. The more I think about this, the more I feel as if Walsh backed NY into a corner here. If they get LeBron, obviously, the man is a genius. However, this LeBron situation is so up in the air that he could end up with one of many other more suitable candidates (including NJ, Chicago, or re-upping).

If NY gets Bron, then the plan comes together and NY/Walsh wins huge. However, no LeBron = a major loss. Why? Without LeBron, none of the other team USA big guns (Wade/ Bosh) are going to go forfeit the 6th year of their contract to play in NY with no supporting cast what-so-ever. This will of course piss fans off because they were promised LeBron and are expecting him (especially since the NY media has been hyping this up).

Without LeBron and no other top tier free agents (which pisses off fans), another option is to give big deals to lower-tier free agents (whatever ones don't go in sign and trades or team up with the big guns). This would probably piss fans off too, because you can't go to war with JJ, Amare, Lee and no supporting cast... and face it, they were expecting LeBron. Luckily, I've heard posters on here saying that Walsh won't throw big to max deals at Gay/JJ/Boozer type guys and will instead wait until 2011 and just get Melo or Durant.

Great plan! Only, you run into the same problem you have this year. The team sucks, and does not have a lot of assets to get better. Well, at least they'll have a lottery pick to lure Durant and Melo... wait, that's not right. In fact, Houston gets NY's first rounder next year (top 1 protected). So even if NY has the worst record in the league next year (and lets face it, they will), there's a 75% chance that pick is going to the Rockets. If we get their pick, then the team is basically in the same position trying to lure Durant and Melo away from their clubs (and the 6th year) and other suitors, without a good team in place or a future to look forward to (we got their 2012 pick top 5 protected as well).

How long can Walsh sit on that capspace and not make moves hoping to land the biggest free agent in the draft with the NY media promising fans the biggest FA on the block each year?

I used to think NY fans were the most delusional about the Bron Bron sweepstakes, but really, it makes sense. Without Bron, the Knicks are in a TOUGH spot as they put all their eggs in LeBron's basket. This is similar to the Cavs only if Bron leaves, he's the villain and no one will think ill of Gilbert. But if LeBron doesn't go to NY, then the Knicks look really, really bad from a business standpoint.

This is all just my opinion btw, but the Knicks need LeBron bad.

[ehh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

No offense Streets but that post couldn't be more off base. Walsh has said since Day 1 that LeBron is not the be all end all. The fans were never promised LeBron and as recently as today on 1050 Walsh refused to talk about LeBron or any one player in particular. New York fans don't expect LBJ anymore than Chicago or Cleveland fans do. That's not what this is about.

We had to go through the process of the last two years in order our salary cap situation under control. It took two years to clean up Zeke's mess. What other plan could Walsh follow?

In regards to the TMac deal, as you said it meant the Knicks had to give up more draft picks but here's the kicker, Walsh knows that there was absolutely zero chance of signing LeBron without enough room for a second max deal. He did what he had to do ensure that the Knicks could have two max deals. You have to shoot for the stars and Walsh did. I would much rather have him do what he's done than not even bother to try and get LeBron, Bosh, etc.

If Walsh didn't make the T-Mac trade, where would that leave us? With no shot at any of the top tier free agents this summer, nothing to attract a second tier free agent this summer and one lottery pick in 2011. We'd be up ****'s creek without a paddle without even making an attempt at the top free agents.

That is a MUCH worse situation than what we are in right now. Without the Houston trade our best-case scenario is resigning David Lee to a long term deal with Gallo, Douglas and Chandler and a lottery pick in 2011 and 2012. Man, that is a crappy situation. I don't want any part of that. You go down that road and you're not a contender for at least five years AND you didn't even try to be one. But I don't think there's any chance we sign Lee to a big deal, we'll tank 2010-11 before agreeing to that.

I'll take our current situation eight days a week over the alternative I just described.

If we don't get a big free agent then that's fine, we'll retain the cap space and move forward. We'll suck in 2011 and probably lose our pick but we'll also have an insane amount of cap space next summer. We're Top 5 protected in 2012 so we'll blow enough to get our pick anyway. I trust Walsh enough that the team won't "sit tight" forever and we'll get where we need to be.

[ehh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I seriously don't know what you're talking about. This isn't major league baseball. Are you talking about the contract (CLE can offer the most under the cap... no question)? Are you talking about it being NY (see above post and every other one in this thread)?

I'm obviously not talking about his contract, c'mon man. I'm talking about the extra revenue he could earn by playing in New York.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

LeBron's marketing opportunities are irrelevant. He's not going to become a billionaire from commercials and kicks. LeBorns first major business undertaking is his sports management firm, and that conglomeration of folks has quietly struck out on the last three prospects they've groomed...Derrick Rose, Tryeke Evans, and now John Wall. All were herded through Caliperi and expected to join the James/Leon Rose/Wesley power group. All three declined and went with better conncected reps. I think those guys realized that Lebrons business posse has very little real power, influence, or credibility, and while getting James endorsements really isn't that difficult, they haven't proven they have the connects to get less established players big money.

LeBron doesn't need NY, but the James camp could sure use that base of operations. That scares me.

This is what I'm saying. It's not about Gatorade and Nike, there are a lot of behind the scenes business affairs that open up if NY is his base of operations. Now that he is officially free and looking like he's gonna leave, my guess is his team is just now getting a sense of how many of those doors will open for him.

I don't know. The more I think about this, the more I feel as if Walsh backed NY into a corner here. If they get LeBron, obviously, the man is a genius. However, this LeBron situation is so up in the air that he could end up with one of many other more suitable candidates (including NJ, Chicago, or re-upping).

If NY gets Bron, then the plan comes together and NY/Walsh wins huge. However, no LeBron = a major loss. Why? Without LeBron, none of the other team USA big guns (Wade/ Bosh) are going to go forfeit the 6th year of their contract to play in NY with no supporting cast what-so-ever. This will of course piss fans off because they were promised LeBron and are expecting him (especially since the NY media has been hyping this up).

Without LeBron and no other top tier free agents (which pisses off fans), another option is to give big deals to lower-tier free agents (whatever ones don't go in sign and trades or team up with the big guns). This would probably piss fans off too, because you can't go to war with JJ, Amare, Lee and no supporting cast... and face it, they were expecting LeBron. Luckily, I've heard posters on here saying that Walsh won't throw big to max deals at Gay/JJ/Boozer type guys and will instead wait until 2011 and just get Melo or Durant.

Great plan! Only, you run into the same problem you have this year. The team sucks, and does not have a lot of assets to get better. Well, at least they'll have a lottery pick to lure Durant and Melo... wait, that's not right. In fact, Houston gets NY's first rounder next year (top 1 protected). So even if NY has the worst record in the league next year (and lets face it, they will), there's a 75% chance that pick is going to the Rockets. If we get their pick, then the team is basically in the same position trying to lure Durant and Melo away from their clubs (and the 6th year) and other suitors, without a good team in place or a future to look forward to (we got their 2012 pick top 5 protected as well).

How long can Walsh sit on that capspace and not make moves hoping to land the biggest free agent in the draft with the NY media promising fans the biggest FA on the block each year?

I used to think NY fans were the most delusional about the Bron Bron sweepstakes, but really, it makes sense. Without Bron, the Knicks are in a TOUGH spot as they put all their eggs in LeBron's basket. This is similar to the Cavs only if Bron leaves, he's the villain and no one will think ill of Gilbert. But if LeBron doesn't go to NY, then the Knicks look really, really bad from a business standpoint.

This is all just my opinion btw, but the Knicks need LeBron bad.

I really could not disagree with this more. When Walsh came in, he had a roster that could not compete with a bunch of long term contracts preventing him from signing anyone, and a coach driving the team into the ground.

His only play was to erase everything, and build from scratch. He brought in a great coach, got rid of all of the contracts and cleared the table for the biggest free agent offseason in history. No matter what way you slice it, we are in a better situation. Before we were losing and broke. We had no flexibility.

Lebron is the highest talent out there right now, but NY doesn't have to win a championship next year. NY just has to improve. We can sign one free agent and then bide our time until more become available. Specifically, Deron and CP3 are both looking at the door already. Whatever opportunities arise, the Knicks will be prepared for them, because they have the money, the market, the management and the coach in place to build something.

Walsh's only mistake was not drafting Brandon Jennings. Everything else has been excellent. People forget that Eddy Curry's contract can bring in a few more roleplayers to flesh out our squad.

Worst case scenario is that "The Plan" gets delayed a summer or two, but ultimately, the Knicks are on the road to be a competitive team in one to three years. As it is, Walsh didn't expect to be able to afford two free agents. I'm still of the mind that JJ will not get max money. I think his asking price will be forced down once he becomes the last biscuit on the table after everyone is full. The only way they can screw this up is by paying someone money they don't deserve. If the Knicks spend wisely, they'll be fine.

[Streets]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

No offense Streets but that post couldn't be more off base. Walsh has said since Day 1 that LeBron is not the be all end all. The fans were never promised LeBron and as recently as today on 1050 Walsh refused to talk about LeBron or any one player in particular. New York fans don't expect LBJ anymore than Chicago or Cleveland fans do. That's not what this is about.

We had to go through the process of the last two years in order our salary cap situation under control. It took two years to clean up Zeke's mess. What other plan could Walsh follow?

In regards to the TMac deal, as you said it meant the Knicks had to give up more draft picks but here's the kicker, Walsh knows that there was absolutely zero chance of signing LeBron without enough room for a second max deal. He did what he had to do ensure that the Knicks could have two max deals. You have to shoot for the stars and Walsh did. I would much rather have him do what he's done than not even bother to try and get LeBron, Bosh, etc.

If Walsh didn't make the T-Mac trade, where would that leave us? With no shot at any of the top tier free agents this summer, nothing to attract a second tier free agent this summer and one lottery pick in 2011. We'd be up ****'s creek without a paddle without even making an attempt at the top free agents.

That is a MUCH worse situation than what we are in right now. Without the Houston trade our best-case scenario is resigning David Lee to a long term deal with Gallo, Douglas and Chandler and a lottery pick in 2011 and 2012. Man, that is a crappy situation. I don't want any part of that. You go down that road and you're not a contender for at least five years AND you didn't even try to be one. But I don't think there's any chance we sign Lee to a big deal, we'll tank 2010-11 before agreeing to that.

I'll take our current situation eight days a week over the alternative I just described.

If we don't get a big free agent then that's fine, we'll retain the cap space and move forward. We'll suck in 2011 and probably lose our pick but we'll also have an insane amount of cap space next summer. We're Top 5 protected in 2012 so we'll blow enough to get our pick anyway. I trust Walsh enough that the team won't "sit tight" forever and we'll get where we need to be.

How is my post wrong? It's an opinion, man. You obviously know much more about the Knicks than I do (being serious here), so what's the plan, if they they don't get LeBron this year, and don't throw their capspace at a Boozer/JJ/Gay/Amare? Is the plan to rebuild through the draft, continually shoot for the top free agents every year? What is it?

It's possible they won't be able to rebuild through the draft, and if Walsh is only willing to throw the max at super-elite players then that means they're hoping to get Durant and Melo the next year I'm assuming. If they can't get Lebron/Bosh this year, I doubt that they're going to get Durant/Melo next year. but again, you know more than me, so explain the plan, because as I see it, it all really hinged on LeBron, but apparently I'm wrong (which I can admit as long as I can understand).

[ehh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Walsh's only mistake was not drafting Brandon Jennings.

Us not taking Jennings was a huge blessing in disguise IMO. I don't know how this summer's FA movement will play out but if we draft Jennings then we never make the Houston trade and don't have enough cap space for two max deals this summer. Plus, if you add Jennings to our current roster it's still no where near attractive enough to lure LBJ in. Jennings is a gunner and dominates the ball, he'd be a horrible PG for LBJ anyway.

Plus, as you said CP3 and Deron are long term targets if 2010 doesn't work out like we hope.