The LeBron James Thread

[d23x]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

LOL at anyone who says Bosh has been exposed. Miami is one of the best at trapping the pick and roll in the league and a lot of that has to do with Bosh. His length and speed for a 6'11 guy makes trapping a pick and roll more effective. Spoelstra always preaches that Bosh is the most valued prize on the Heat and in many ways he is right. The way he spreads the floor for James and others to operate and his mid range is still deadly even more so when left open. Sure he scored 0 in the closeout game 7 in the finals, but it was things he did all game that go unnoticed or aren't in the box score.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Wait,

Kobe just completed a season with Steve Nash & Dwight Howard on his team, he bragged to Durant at the Olympics about getting D12...it just happened not to work out....lets not act like Kobe is too noble for help all the sudden...we see how he reacted in the mid 2000's when he was faced with the prospect of being mediocre for a couple of years...think y'all are giving him way too much credit lol

I don't think anyone is giving him credit... more like arguing against the notion that he's selfish for not taking a pay cut to make the team better. If anything, the fact the team added Nash and Howard to a team that already had Kobe and Gasol (and MWP and Jamison... veteran presence) is more reason for him NOT to feel he needs to sacrifice what he's earned since they found a way to get better on paper without him doing that.

And honestly, many people in this debate weren't old enough to drive in the mid 2000's. That can not be used as an argument to why he should do anything today. The motivation of an all time player in his prime, still trying to get out of the shadow of being 2nd fiddle to Shaq vs the motivation of a player who's legacy is all but stamped and pressed with maybe another 2 good years left is VERY different. Personally I don't even think it's right to bring up maturity issues based on the rape charge that long ago. Should we expect Lebron to act as immature as he reportedly did his 3rd year in the league when evaluating his mental state today? Completely different circumstances.

[The 24th Letter]

Oh, well I completely agree with the fact that he in no way feel obligated to take a pay cut, I just disagreed with the premise that the sole purpose of doing this is to create some kind of "super team"..

Some things don't change though ...and I don't think for one second Kobe wants come back from this injury for the sake of coming back...he stated he wants championships....this is from the horses mouth...and this present team isn't going to get him one...well see what his mentality is once this season is over and the Lakers are back in the hunt for FAs...

I'd bet the farm that if Melo came into that office he's not saying "naw man, I don't need any help, Me and Robert Sacre got this"

[Vni]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Yeah I think he'll like Melo here. But I don't think its anywhere close as having Lebron or Lebron AND melo. You're not winning a title alone... Or with a washed Steve Nash and Gasol.

And btw when you look at their respective carreer Melo might need Kobe more than the other way around...

[d11king]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Wait,

Kobe just completed a season with Steve Nash & Dwight Howard on his team, he bragged to Durant at the Olympics about getting D12...it just happened not to work out....lets not act like Kobe is too noble for help all the sudden...we see how he reacted in the mid 2000's when he was faced with the prospect of being mediocre for a couple of years...think y'all are giving him way too much credit lol

If you mean reacted to having the likes of Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Vladimir Radmonivic, Brian Cook, Deavan George, Kwame Brown, Maurice Evans, Aaron McKie, Laron Profit, Von Wafer, Ronny Turiaf, Jim Jackson, Chris Mihm, Sasha Vujecic and my favorite, the Almighty Slava Medvendenko on your team then I think you possibly took what happened the wrong way. No way in hell was Kobe going to get traded, him asking for a trade was a shot at management which basically said, "they don't want to win, so I don't want to be here". After that trade demand, Lakers went to 3 straight Finals.

The one thing I've always admired about Kobe is that he wants to win. No matter what it is, the only thing he cares about is winning, and in any sort of competition, that should be the only thing that matters.

[The 24th Letter]

I completely agree d11 (for the most part)

Kobe has, and always will be about winning.

That was my point...

[DukeC]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

So....

I'm assuming we can agree that post-Shaq Kobe grew into this mindset?

Because before that he was absolutely insufferable

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Oh, well I completely agree with the fact that he in no way feel obligated to take a pay cut, I just disagreed with the premise that the sole purpose of doing this is to create some kind of "super team"..

Some things don't change though ...and I don't think for one second Kobe wants come back from this injury for the sake of coming back...he stated he wants championships....this is from the horses mouth...and this present team isn't going to get him one...well see what his mentality is once this season is over and the Lakers are back in the hunt for FAs...

I'd bet the farm that if Melo came into that office he's not saying "naw man, I don't need any help, Me and Robert Sacre got this"

You may be misreading. I agree with you, but that's a far cry for assuming he would demand to be traded (seriously or in a game of chicken) at this point in his career with the current team around him. And that's even considering that the current team isn't good enough on paper to win it all. IF he were to do that, then I could see some saying he deserves criticism for not taking a pay cut. But today, I don't see any chance he would do that. Different circumstance than before.

And while he would welcome Melo, James or any other star, I don't think he would or should take a pay cut to make the move happen.

[d11king]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I completely agree d11 (for the most part)

Kobe has, and always will be about winning.

That was my point...

Okay sorry for the attack then if I came across that way. Gotta protect my quarterback haha

[d11king]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You may be misreading. I agree with you, but that's a far cry for assuming he would demand to be traded (seriously or in a game of chicken) at this point in his career with the current team around him. And that's even considering that the current team isn't good enough on paper to win it all. IF he were to do that, then I could see some saying he deserves criticism for not taking a pay cut. But today, I don't see any chance he would do that. Different circumstance than before.

And while he would welcome Melo, James or any other star, I don't think he would or should take a pay cut to make the move happen.

I think the pay cut depends on how he plays this season. If Kobe really wants to win, I think he'll understand 30 million isn't going to cut it, let alone 20. I wouldn't want him back if he was talking those numbers anyway, I have him coming back probably averaging somewhere between 17-22 points, and for him being on his last leg literally, I'd hope he's sign for somewhere around 8-12 million dollars.

He and Melo are good friends so I think they'll be able to try and co-exist but I don't think it'll work at the end of the day, I still don't think neither Melo or Bron come to LA anyway, let alone with him still here. As a basketball fan I wish LeBron and Melo both stay put, too many stars in the NBA jumping ship.

[TajDeni]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Kobe just said he wouldn't take less. Which is really greedy in my opinion.

allow me to bring some context to these comments.

1st lets look at exactly why it is that kobe makes $30mil, approx $7-8mil more dollars than anyone else in the league.

because kobe was underpaid during his prime yrs, when it came time for kobe to get an extention, the lakers had to overpay kobe in order to get kobe caught up to max contract level on his extention. and since his contract was signed b4 the new collective bargining agreement went into place, kobe's contract was grandfather into the new financial system.

now to this idea that kobe wouldnt take less money and this idea about kobe isnt worth $30mil; i dont understand why ppl keep bring this number up. for 1, even if a player signed a max deal now, at no point would that player make $30mil. so on that fact alone kobe has to take a pay cut.

all kobe is saying is that he's going to fight for every single penny he is worth right now, or should i say when his contract is up. so 4ex, if kobe comes back averaging 25pts/g and makes 1st or 2nd team all-nba, then he expects to get paid at the going rate for an all-nba SG.

now giving the context i just brought into the convo, how can a man be called greedy for asking to be paid at the going rate of his current production, whatever that may be?

now for the sake of this convo, lets say that number is around $15mil/yr, give or take. isnt that both at the same time, kobe taking a pay cut and also the lakers paying kobe based on what he is worth? hence, the statement by kobe im going to fight for every penny im worth, when its time to negotiate.

and folks say well, if he wants to win he should do this or that; and maybe he will cut the lakers a deal after he fights for all the money he can get 1st. you dont cut them a deal b4 you get what you can.

but it comes back to 1 of the points i was making the last time i was on the boards, its not kobe's job to take less than he's worth, if he doesnt want to. its the organizations job, not to overpay players who are not worth their contracts, in order to have the money to play the players who are worth their contracts. its up to the organization to be fiscally responsible, not the player.

i just wanted to post this because context is everything....

------------------------

imo, lebron is not coming to play for the lakers...

1st your trying to be greater than kareem, magic, kobe, shaq. so coming to the lakers only puts your championships in comparison to theirs, and he dont need that bs in his life.

next, while playing for the lakers in terms of a city and a fanbase is prolly better than playing for miami as a city and the heat fanbase; i wouldnt necessarly say that playing for the lakers organization is better than playing for the heat organization at the present moment. would you want to put your trust in pat reily or jim buss? so at best its a lateral move to switch from the heat to the lakers.

imo, melo and lebrons ppl are using the lakers to keep pressure on their own organizations to continue to improve their teams. straight athlete pimping 101 and nothing more.

and lastly, if lebron did leave miami, theres really only 1 thing left to do, bring a chip back to the city of cleveland. the prodical son returns. he'd be a made-man 4 life! and not even chasing mj could bring lebron more glory than that imo.

[Kashanova]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

allow me to bring some context to these comments.

1st lets look at exactly why it is that kobe makes $30mil, approx $7-8mil more dollars than anyone else in the league.

because kobe was underpaid during his prime yrs, when it came time for kobe to get an extention, the lakers had to overpay in order kobe to get kobe caught up to speed with max contract level. and since his contract was signed b4 the new collective bargining agreement went into place, kobe's contract was grandfather into the new financial system.

now to this idea that kobe wouldnt take less money and this idea about kobe isnt worth $30mil; i dont understand why ppl keep bring this number up. for 1, even if a player signed a max deal now, at no point would that player make $30mil. so on that fact alone kobe has to take a pay cut.

all kobe is saying is that he's going to fight for every single penny he is worth right now, or should i say when his contract is up. so 4ex, if kobe comes back averaging 25pts/g and makes 1st or 2nd team all-nba, then he expects to get paid at the going rate for an all-nba SG.

now giving the context i just brought into the convo, how can a man be called greedy for asking to be paid at the going rate of his current production, whatever that may be?

now for the sake of this convo, lets say that number is around $15mil/yr, give or take. isnt that both at the same time, kobe taking a pay cut and also the lakers paying kobe based on what he is worth? hence, the statement by kobe im going to fight for every penny im worth, when its time to negotiate.

and folks say well, if he wants to win he should do this or that. and it comes back to the point i was making the last time i was on the boards, its not kobe's job to take less than he's worth, if he doesnt want to. its the organizations job, not to overpay guess who are not worth their contracts, in order to have the money to play the players who are worth their contracts. its up to the organization to be fiscally responsible, not the player.

i just wanted to post this because context is everything....

------------------------

imo, lebron is not coming to play for the lakers...

1st your trying to be greater than kareem, magic, kobe, shaq. so coming to the lakers onlt puts your championships in comparison to theirs, he dont need that bs in his life.

next, while playing for the lakers in terms of a city and a fanbase is prolly slightly than playing for miami as a city and the heat fanbase, i wouldnt necessarly say that playing for the heat organization is better than playing for the lakers organization right now. would you want to put your trust in pat reily or jim buss? so at best its a lateral move to switch from the heat to the lakers.

imo, melo and lebrons ppl are using the lakers to keep pressure on their own organizations to continue to improve their teams. straight pimping 101 and nothing more.

and lastly, if lebron did leave only 1 thing left to do, bring a chip back to cleveland. the prodical son returns. made-man 4 life! and not even chasing mj could ever bring lebron more glory than that.

That's Absurd. Kobe Signed a $136.4 million over seven years in 2004 which I believe is still the biggest contract in NBA history. He signed that in his mid 20s? So I don't see how he was underpaid in his prime years when he signed the biggest contract in NBA history.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1840336

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/833716-50-fattest-contracts-in-nba-history/page/51

edit:

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jan/28/sports/sp-2581

Laker agrees to a six-year, $70-million extension, the most a third-year player can get.January 28, 1999

I even found a link for his first extension. So again the notion that Kobe was underpaid is ridiculous. Kobe wants to win but he's yet to make the financial sacrifice that many players take in order to win.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

That's Absurd. Kobe Signed a $136.4 million over seven years in 2004 which I believe is still the biggest contract in NBA history. He signed that in his mid 20s? So I don't see how he was underpaid in his prime years when he signed the biggest contract in NBA history.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1840336

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/833716-50-fattest-contracts-in-nba-history/page/51

edit:

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jan/28/sports/sp-2581

I even found a link for his first extension. So again the notion that Kobe was underpaid is ridiculous. Kobe wants to win but he's yet to make the financial sacrifice that many players take in order to win.

Okay fellas. I take credit for my part in this, but we are in the LEBRON thread. Lets stop the Kobe talk. Thanks for having an interesting and civil discussion but of all the threads to derail this is probably the worse one, lol.

[TajDeni]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

The trade thing was a joke lol.

Kobe is getting old. I think he is leaving rings on the table in my opinion (again). Kobe will always go down as the player who couldn't play with others lol. Just kidding about the last part.

how can you make this statement when he won a championship with the right group around him after shaq.

since he's been the lead dog, you havent heard any player bitching about playing with him except the players trying to take the team from him. you never heard gasol say he couldnt play with kobe, you never heard metta saying that, nor lamar, or fisher. they may say little things like pass the ball alittle more but their teammates, they are allowed to say those things to him. but you never heard any of them say they didnt or couldnt play with kobe.

the bottomline is if your not denzel, then it aint your movie, fall in line, know your role in the film.

players who understand that have no problems playing with kobe. but if you wanna be denzel when denzel already exist, well of course thers going to be problems. and like it or not, kobe is denzel, until he's not denzel anymore or another player comes along who can play denzel better than him.

so how can man lead a team to 2 championships and 3 straight yrs to the finals and folks say nobody can play with kobe. those facts alone prove that its simply not a true statement.

i saw you said you were kidding but i wanna address it anyways cus, ppl really feel this way.

[TajDeni]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

That's Absurd. Kobe Signed a $136.4 million over seven years in 2004 which I believe is still the biggest contract in NBA history. He signed that in his mid 20s? So I don't see how he was underpaid in his prime years when he signed the biggest contract in NBA history.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1840336

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/833716-50-fattest-contracts-in-nba-history/page/51

edit:

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jan/28/sports/sp-2581

I even found a link for his first extension. So again the notion that Kobe was underpaid is ridiculous. Kobe wants to win but he's yet to make the financial sacrifice that many players take in order to win.

ok, i might have been slightly wrong, im not sure. but the point is that you cant sign for more than the max, so from where his contract was at thats what they had to pay him to get him up to max contract.