The LeBron James Thread

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Now wait a second, I misunderstood the initial post about the East sucking but are we so sure the Cavs could have made 4 straight title appearances in today's East with that cast? Seems like you're easily dismissing what the Heat have done chalking it up to the East sucking.

It takes so much to be able to sustain that level of play when the target is on your back. I don't care which conference you play in, to make the finals 4 years in a row you have to have so much going in your favor.. your team has to be so mentally tough.. your team has to have a great amount of talent...

[The 24th Letter]

The LeBron James Thread

Kind've crazy arguing last week
about how 'stacked' the Heat were, and now were comparing them to the Cav's, haha

[Rocky]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Kind've crazy arguing last week
about how 'stacked' the Heat were, and now were comparing them to the Cav's, haha

Yeah, but I remember when this forum thought Mo Williams was a legit 2nd man and Jamison was going to be the 'difference maker' lol. You kinda have no choice but to compare the Heat to their last game...not 2011 or 2012. That's really the topic at hand and when you have Bosh, Allen at 38, Wade at 60% or 70%, and Chalmers/Cole ineffective...I think you can start to make the comparison.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I loved Riley's speech also, just to clear things up, you were asking what does that say about LeBron?

I think I get what you're asking but let me know if I'm wrong.

When I say "What does that say about LeBron?" I'm speaking to the people that thinks he needs to be surrounded by HOF talent to continue getting rings on a quest to being the GOAT. How can they think as highly of him as they do if they think he needs to jump ship every year his team doesn't win it all?

Very true, I just think some are going to the other extreme as well..of course no one said that about the Heat after the DAL series...the Heat were miles better than any of those Cav's teams. Our 60+ teams that didn't win the chip weren't getting blown out in the playoffs either...neither did the Mav's teams, or those Suns teams...I could post even closer scores than yours...we could play 'what if' with every close series though...hard to do that with basketball,.

Other than the Heat, what team has won the championship that most thought was a contender coming into the season? Not this year's Spurs. Not the Mavs. However MOST would've called those 2 Cavs teams contenders going into the season. It's revisionist history.

Good as the Heat? Of course not. But light years away (far enough away that James had to run to another team)? I don't think so. And most importantly, the scrubs they are often portrayed as today? Definitely not.

I think the Cavs definitely always had a chance to make the finals but mostly because of LeBron not the team. Especially not the coach.

Of course it's because of Lebron. That's the whole point. Who'd think this year's Heat would have a chance to make it to the finals without Lebron?

[Cavsfan4life]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

The MIA teams had more more talent, but those Cavs teams were not as bad as everyone talks about. In 09, the Magic got really hot from 3 and Dwight hit free throws, it still could have went either way. Not going to bother with 2010 vs BOS, everything said about it has been said lol. The majority of people had the Cavs in the finals during those seasons, to say NOW they couldnt win is just odd. LBJ was great here, but he alone didnt lead us to 60+ back to back seasons, it was when we added more talent. That said, take a more mature LBJ in MIA and put him on those CLE teams, maybe we do win a championship, we'll never know.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

No my point is LeBron made those players overachieve during the Cleveland years. If you swapped LeBron out with any other superstar at the time, Kobe Bryant included, I don't see them getting close to 60 wins or being considered as a contender.

[The 24th Letter]

The LeBron James Thread

Other than the Heat, what team has won the championship that most thought was a contender coming into the season? Not this year's Spurs. Not the Mavs. However MOST would've called those 2 Cavs teams contenders going into the season. It's revisionist history.



Good as the Heat? Of course not. But light years away (far enough away that James had to run to another team)? I don't think so. And most importantly, the scrubs they are often portrayed as today? Definitely not.

?

I literally can't think of anyone but the Mav's and Pistons in the past 14 years that were complete dark horses to contend and win a championship. Plenty of people picked the Spurs to win this year...I don't understand what your getting at there.

Like I said before, from the jump I personally never thought that team was built to win a championship...and break the mold of winning a ring with just one guy capable of creating for himself...just never saw it...and I am not the only one who believed that...

Now for all these people making the Cav's supporting Cast out to be complete trash, that's on them...just like the guys who believe MIA should blow it up because of their casts failure this year...people are going to be extreme...whatever....don't know of that equals the majority.

Who are all these people (that's don't have the username HeatFan8679) calling the Cav's complete trash anyway?

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Wait a minute, the Spurs weren't considered contenders going into this season? Come on now. Outside of the Mavs and Pistons winning, every team that has won the title in the past 20 years has been considered a contender. That is a big reach man.

It's not revisionist history about Cleveland, plenty of folks were saying how he didn't have enough help during those years. They were contenders because LeBron raised their level of play. No other player could have made that team into contenders. Not trash by any means, or devoid of talent, just not enough.

[Cavsfan4life]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

No my point is LeBron made those players overachieve during the Cleveland years. If you swapped LeBron out with any other superstar at the time, Kobe Bryant included, I don't see them getting close to 60 wins or being considered as a contender.

I agree, but I think that has more to do with the team being built around LBJ and his abilities(mainly his playmaking). Kobe here instead of LBJ, I still think we would of been contenders, but not favorites. LBJ makes everyone better, take him off those MIA teams do they go as far without him or another SF?

[BluFu]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I think the Cavs definitely always had a chance to make the finals but mostly because of LeBron not the team. Especially not the coach.

lebron's Cavs squads faced considerably tougher competition compared to the Heat.

Notable Opponents (Eastern Conference):

Cavs
'06 Pistons (2 straight finals berths years prior & 64-18 finish)
'07 Pistons (5 straight conference finals appearances)
'08 Celtics (champions & 66-16 finish)
'09 Magic (finals berth)
'10 Celtics (finals berth)

Heat
'11 Celtics (finals berth year prior) & '11 Bulls (Best record in the NBA 62-20)
'12 Celtics (0.59 win % = 48 wins over 82 game season)
'13 Pacers
'14 (Nets, Cats and mentally riddled Pacers were a joke)

besides their first year when they lost to the mavs, the competition the heat were getting in the east was nothing to what lebron was getting on the cavs.

**edit

The MIA teams had more more talent, but those Cavs teams were not as bad as everyone talks about. In 09, the Magic got really hot from 3 and Dwight hit free throws, it still could have went either way. Not going to bother with 2010 vs BOS, everything said about it has been said lol. The majority of people had the Cavs in the finals during those seasons, to say NOW they couldnt win is just odd. LBJ was great here, but he alone didnt lead us to 60+ back to back seasons, it was when we added more talent.

It's not revisionist history about Cleveland, plenty of folks were saying how he didn't have enough help during those years. They were contenders because LeBron raised their level of play. N̶o̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶e̶r̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶e̶n̶d̶e̶r̶s̶.̶ Not trash by any means, or devoid of talent, just not enough.

thank you, I've been trying to say this for YEARS

[ojandpizza]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

So this only works one way? They could have just as easily been swept by Orlando but they couldn't have just as easily swept the Magic? Orlando had one season where those guys were playing at a high level and they rode it to the Finals. It's honestly a joke to pretend like Cleveland had no chance at even making the Finals.

Definitely works both ways, though it took nearly 40 a game from LeBron just to lose in 6. But even if they win that series, it's just to get swept in the finals right? That's my point, they were good enough to contend in the weak East, but they were never built to be a championship level team.

Maybe it's just me, but even win they were winning 60+ I never thought to myself "yeah this team can win it all", "yeah Mike Brown is the best coach in the league".

That's why I think it all depends on how you look at the team. If you looked at them as a team that was supposed to win a championship then they were pretty bad. If you looked at them as a team that could come out of the East if everything "clicked" at the right times, then they were pretty solid. It's all about perspective. I don't think they were as bad as people let on, but I don't think they were anywhere close to championship level.


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[ojandpizza]

The LeBron James Thread

I think I get what you're asking but let me know if I'm wrong.



When I say "What does that say about LeBron?" I'm speaking to the people that thinks he needs to be surrounded by HOF talent to continue getting rings on a quest to being the GOAT. How can they think as highly of him as they do if they think he needs to jump ship every year his team doesn't win it all?

This is why I don't want him to leave Miami unless it's to return home..

Though if he does leave I don't think it's necessarily to find MORE help, I don't think he's getting that anywhere he goes.. If he were to leave somewhere it would be to find younger/healthy help, so his window to win possibly stays open longer.


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[ojandpizza]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Miami support v Cleveland support is 100% laughable if you're trying to compare

There is a reason Miami made 4 straight finals appearances and Cleveland made 1, only to get swept in the championship. The Heat didn't even need a year to to build chemistry, they went straight to the finals in the first season.

Yeah agreed. There is literally no comparison between the two other than to say "LeBron played well and his teammates underperformed" that's the only logical comparison that can be made between Cleveland and Miami.


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[King_B_Mack]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

How can you just say they were gonna get swept in the Finals though? They actually matched up better against the Lakers that year than they did the Magic. So I'm not following that.

And ex I don't get your point either. That's literally the case for every team in the league. They're best player makes them a contender. As soon as Derrick Rose's knee went boom, nobody considered that team a contender without him. Dwight not on Orlando makes them not a contender. If you take Carmelo off the Nuggets they aren't a contender. Kobe from the Lakers. So I don't have a clue what point you're trying to make.

[OkayC]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

How can you just say they were gonna get swept in the Finals though? They actually matched up better against the Lakers that year than they did the Magic. So I'm not following that.

And ex I don't get your point either. That's literally the case for every team in the league. They're best player makes them a contender. As soon as Derrick Rose's knee went boom, nobody considered that team a contender without him. Dwight not on Orlando makes them not a contender. If you take Carmelo off the Nuggets they aren't a contender. Kobe from the Lakers. So I don't have a clue what point you're trying to make.

I could be wrong(correct me if i am). But i think hes trying to say that with any other superstar, that cleveland team wouldnt have been as good.