The LeBron James Thread

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

LeBron is a great individual player...

whether or not he actually can take a team with other good players and make that team better....is yet to be seen honestly. We'll know after this season.

At this point I think I would rather have Rondo as the final piece on a team thats already decent.

I hear that! And totally agree!

[NovaStar]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

The part that I bolded isn't fair though, IMO.

So any superstar that is good enough to make the HOF now considered a loser if they didn't win a chip?

What up Pared. No, just Lebron. Why? He is the first supposedly alpha male to do what he did. As the story was going, he was the next great player, great defined as next great champion.

Everyone HOF player has somewhat of a legacy simply by being excellent in what they do and accomplish in the NBA and other sports. But when one speaks of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Bill Russell, Kobe, you are speaking of championship Legacies, it does not get any higher than that. Lebron was on that track, he was creating that Legacy with the Cavs. As a leader of any given team you are the vocal point, the measuring stick of the teams successes and failures, so if you when, you become elevated and so does your legacy. Heavy is the head that seeks and wears the crown.

Lebron has chosen to forego shouldering the burden of leading a team to a championship, he chose to join Dwade's team, Dwade has already carved a championship legacy for himself that is still being formed, Lebron has not. So when Charles Barkley says Lebron has forever tarnished his legacy and should not be compared to Jordan etc...he is quite correct. You don't rewrite the book or change the game for a man that ran from the challenge of being great.

[jdx66]

Did you watch the Boston-Miami game last night? Granted, Wade missed the entire preseason, but this will be LeBron's team and Wade will play second fiddle. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying that's what should happen. I'm just saying that's how it's going to play out.

Sure, he "joined Wade's team," but that doesn't mean it's going to remain Wade's team.

And LeBron's legacy will be fine whether they win a championship or not. He's going to be the league's all-time leading scorer and top 4 all time in assists by the time his career is over (barring injury). Those kind of numbers speak for themselves, no matter what team(s) he played for.

Buckeyes | Cavaliers | Reds | Bengals
Sent from the DROID2.

[Cebby]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

What up Pared. No, just Lebron. Why? He is the first supposedly alpha male to do what he did. As the story was going, he was the next great player, great defined as next great champion.

Everyone HOF player has somewhat of a legacy simply by being excellent in what they do and accomplish in the NBA and other sports. But when one speaks of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Bill Russell, Kobe, you are speaking of championship Legacies, it does not get any higher than that. Lebron was on that track, he was creating that Legacy with the Cavs. As a leader of any given team you are the vocal point, the measuring stick of the teams successes and failures, so if you when, you become elevated and so does your legacy. Heavy is the head that seeks and wears the crown.

Lebron has chosen to forego shouldering the burden of leading a team to a championship, he chose to join Dwade's team, Dwade has already carved a championship legacy for himself that is still being formed, Lebron has not. So when Charles Barkley says Lebron has forever tarnished his legacy and should not be compared to Jordan etc...he is quite correct. You don't rewrite the book or change the game for a man that ran from the challenge of being great.

Much like your nonsense about Shaq not being similar to Lebron despite being the exact same situation, your logic here follows an incredibly selective path.

The only player on your list with a championship legacy by 26 were Magic Johnson and Bill Russell, but going by the logic of your third paragraph Magic's legacy was already tarnished because he joined Kareem's team with Kareem's championship legacy. Russell won championships early but his team had some 7 Hall of Famers. Kobe also won early but prior to Lebron leaving Cleveland none of them counted because he had Shaq.

I don't see why he can't lead his team to a championship as an alpha dog while still having other great players. Bird, Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Russell, and every player not named Duncan or Hakeem only won with other great players. If he wins 3 or 4 chips with Miami he'll have a championship legacy, just like Shaq, Bird, Magic, Russell, Kobe, etc. He won't have the legacy of Michael Jordan, but neither does the actual person named Michael Jordan.

[RonnieG]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

I agree. I am so tired of that argument in team sports. It is a team game.

One guy can't do it all. Perfect example:

Michael Jordan.

Really it is such a simpleton argument. It is not even worth wasting breath defending it.


If it was a case of Lebron took the last shot in game 7 and choked...yeah blame him for not winning a title. But there are amazing players who play their entire career and never sniff a ring. And it is not because they were not good enough. It is just the way the cards fell. We can make a laundry list of great HOF players across many sports who never won a title.

Rings are overrated and should not be the ultimate judge of how good a player is or was. It is a measure of how great a team was or is.

Yes, and sadly there is a new strain of this simpleton argument, which suggests that winning a ring makes everything the same. Im not sure how many paintings Picasso did but, for the sake of argument, lets say its 30. Just because Ive also done 30 paintings like Picasso, that doesnt make me Picasso.

[boomhauertjs]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

Good article on the "LeIso" offense:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Do-the-Heat-have-any-plan-beyond-playing-great-p?urn=nba-280200

[wheelman990]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

If you dreamed a perfect carear, I doubt it could be imagined better then Jordans. #23 deserves any credit thrown his way. Jordan did as much on his own then anyones ever done. Jordan had pippen, and Rodman, neither close to the all time greatest. Pippen & Rodman were B- to B+ players. Look at the early Bulls championship team. Pippen wasnt near as good as towards the end of his carear, and who else was so great....Grant? Paxton? Cartwright?......give me a break. These guys wouldnt even be remembered if they werent on the Bulls.

Look at Jordans stats, leadership. Look at his last shot wins.

I'm sorry, but the only thing Jordan had over some others is Phil Jackson. You cant deny hes a great coach, and builds a team around his star. He doesnt however get 3 Kobe's or Jordans on the same team, he builds role players & Chemistry.

[Cebby]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

If you dreamed a perfect carear, I doubt it could be imagined better then Jordans. #23 deserves any credit thrown his way. Jordan did as much on his own then anyones ever done. Jordan had pippen, and Rodman, neither close to the all time greatest. Pippen & Rodman were B- to B+ players. Look at the early Bulls championship team. Pippen wasnt near as good as towards the end of his carear, and who else was so great....Grant? Paxton? Cartwright?......give me a break. These guys wouldnt even be remembered if they werent on the Bulls.

The Bulls won 55 games and Pippin finished 3rd in MVP voting without Jordan (or Rodman).

If you put Rodman on the 94 Bulls they probably win the championship.

[jdx66]

The Bulls won 55 games and Pippin finished 3rd in MVP voting without Jordan (or Rodman).

If you put Rodman on the 94 Bulls they probably win the championship.

So true.

Buckeyes | Cavaliers | Reds | Bengals
Sent from the DROID2.

[BlueNGold]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

If you dreamed a perfect carear, I doubt it could be imagined better then Jordans. #23 deserves any credit thrown his way. Jordan did as much on his own then anyones ever done. Jordan had pippen, and Rodman, neither close to the all time greatest. Pippen & Rodman were B- to B+ players. Look at the early Bulls championship team. Pippen wasnt near as good as towards the end of his carear, and who else was so great....Grant? Paxton? Cartwright?......give me a break. These guys wouldnt even be remembered if they werent on the Bulls.

Look at Jordans stats, leadership. Look at his last shot wins.

I'm sorry, but the only thing Jordan had over some others is Phil Jackson. You cant deny hes a great coach, and builds a team around his star. He doesnt however get 3 Kobe's or Jordans on the same team, he builds role players & Chemistry.

LOL @ a Hall of Famer on Pippen's level being a B- to B+ player.

[Pared]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

What up Pared. No, just Lebron. Why? He is the first supposedly alpha male to do what he did. As the story was going, he was the next great player, great defined as next great champion.

Everyone HOF player has somewhat of a legacy simply by being excellent in what they do and accomplish in the NBA and other sports. But when one speaks of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Bill Russell, Kobe, you are speaking of championship Legacies, it does not get any higher than that. Lebron was on that track, he was creating that Legacy with the Cavs. As a leader of any given team you are the vocal point, the measuring stick of the teams successes and failures, so if you when, you become elevated and so does your legacy. Heavy is the head that seeks and wears the crown.

Lebron has chosen to forego shouldering the burden of leading a team to a championship, he chose to join Dwade's team, Dwade has already carved a championship legacy for himself that is still being formed, Lebron has not. So when Charles Barkley says Lebron has forever tarnished his legacy and should not be compared to Jordan etc...he is quite correct. You don't rewrite the book or change the game for a man that ran from the challenge of being great.

But look at what you're stating here - let's put the LBJ hate aside for a second:

Much of this argument can be used with other players at some point in their career if we were to go back in the past. I HATE using Kobe as an example, but his is a great one - the first championships weren't with it being "his" team, and when he had the chance to be "the man" he needed Gasol to do it.

All legendary players had some sort of assistance from a possible HOF player. Heck, some couldn't even win without having supporting cast. There's a scary trend with most of these "legendary teams" - one megastar, another just below but still amazing star, and supporting players like a good 3 point shooter. Add a hustle rebounder or lockdown defender... and you have a squad.

Isn't LBJ's legacy now, currently, undefinable, given that you have no idea what he will do? I know exactly what you're thinking... I think he took the easy way out too. But to label his career in terms of championships... I just never agreed with that. I don't think Karl Malone and John Stockton are any less of the amazing players they were because they didn't win a chip. That's what I read when I look at your comment about LBJ.

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

Good article on the "LeIso" offense:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/bal...urn=nba-280200

I tired reading that. But I got confused at the end of that. I didn't understand his joke.

[NovaStar]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

Much like your nonsense about Shaq not being similar to Lebron despite being the exact same situation, your logic here follows an incredibly selective path.

The only player on your list with a championship legacy by 26 were Magic Johnson and Bill Russell, but going by the logic of your third paragraph Magic's legacy was already tarnished because he joined Kareem's team with Kareem's championship legacy. Russell won championships early but his team had some 7 Hall of Famers. Kobe also won early but prior to Lebron leaving Cleveland none of them counted because he had Shaq.

I don't see why he can't lead his team to a championship as an alpha dog while still having other great players. Bird, Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Russell, and every player not named Duncan or Hakeem only won with other great players. If he wins 3 or 4 chips with Miami he'll have a championship legacy, just like Shaq, Bird, Magic, Russell, Kobe, etc. He won't have the legacy of Michael Jordan, but neither does the actual person named Michael Jordan.

Magic was DRAFTED by the Lakers, man. You can't be that thick.

Secondly, Miami is not his team, it is D-wades team, he is the alpha male of Miami he has the ring. What about that don't you understand?

[Armor and Sword]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

If you dreamed a perfect carear, I doubt it could be imagined better then Jordans. #23 deserves any credit thrown his way. Jordan did as much on his own then anyones ever done. Jordan had pippen, and Rodman, neither close to the all time greatest. Pippen & Rodman were B- to B+ players. Look at the early Bulls championship team. Pippen wasnt near as good as towards the end of his carear, and who else was so great....Grant? Paxton? Cartwright?......give me a break. These guys wouldnt even be remembered if they werent on the Bulls.

Look at Jordans stats, leadership. Look at his last shot wins.

I'm sorry, but the only thing Jordan had over some others is Phil Jackson. You cant deny hes a great coach, and builds a team around his star. He doesnt however get 3 Kobe's or Jordans on the same team, he builds role players & Chemistry.

Michael is the best ever! Always will be in my book.

Still, it is a team game and he had a good team around him (during the title years) and he made his team great. It all works together. Coaching also is a factor, no question. Other than Lebron The Cav's were very very average and Lebron managed to lift them oh so high...but he had no help to go over the top, let's be real.

Lebron wanted a change of scenery. It is his right. He will get his rings, he will be a HOF all of that.

The problem is everyone crowned him before he played a minute in the NBA. Everything is hype and marketing today. The game get's lost in translation.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: The LeBron James Saga

Magic was DRAFTED by the Lakers, man. You can't be that thick.

Secondly, Miami is not his team, it is D-wades team, he is the alpha male of Miami he has the ring. What about that don't you understand?

As a lifer Heat fan this is no question Wade's team.

Tune in tonight to find out.

Loving the fact we have these 3 guys...what a gift to us down here.