The LeBron James Thread

23 · 03-11-2011, 05:47 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by Scott812313

Exactly. I've always said this same thing. People confuse assist numbers with making other players better. Take the 08 Olympic team for example, we all know the struggles the National team had the previous 3 or 4 international tournaments "led" by LeBron. Kobe comes in and was absolutely the alpha dog on that team and carried them to the gold. But since LeBron averages more assists (because he has the ball in his hand 90% of the time), he must be more able to make players around him better....

I think we watched a different olympics then because Wade's chip on his shoulder and LeBron ran things

Kobe was shooting like crap,just happened to make the last second shot, after Wade made one

**Scott812313** · 03-11-2011, 06:19 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by 23

I think we watched a different olympics then because Wade's chip on his shoulder and LeBron ran things

Kobe was shooting like crap,just happened to make the last second shot, after Wade made one

Go watch the championship game against Spain and see who stops Spain's run, when it looked like they might pull it out, and won the game for us.

23 · 03-11-2011, 06:25 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Are you reading or just saying what you will?

Kobe played like trash until the end.. did I not just say that?

Dont forget Wade because he hit a big shot from the baseline as well

You go look. Stop ignorning the entire tournament for one moment and saying one guy led it all.

Anyway this is a LeBron thread...

**Scott812313** · 03-11-2011, 06:53 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by 23

I think we watched a different olympics then because Wade's chip on his shoulder and LeBron ran things

Kobe was shooting like crap,just happened to make the last second shot, after Wade made one

Why didn't LeBron "run" things in the 04 Olympics or the 06 FIBA games then....

**Xs and Os** · 03-11-2011, 07:33 PM

you guys really can resist a Kobe Lebron debate can you?

On topic, Lebron clearly doesn't make his teammates better. His skill set is tailor made for the regular season but I think the Cavs had the formula. They just didn't finish building the team nor did they impose themselves on him. They let a really young egomaniac call the shots and he didn't and maybe still doesn't know what's best for himself. Miami is poorly constructed, but having Riley may allow him to grow and fill those holes that people are seeing.

He's the greatest athlete in NBA history and has the court vision of a good PG but right now his game amounts to isolation-drive-pass-fastbreak.

**WTF** · 03-12-2011, 10:00 AM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I don't think that he doesn't make people around him better, it's just that he can't make "talented players" around him better. You look at some of the guys who were playing good ball with Cleveland because LBJ was getting them decent looks. He made them marginally better players.

But you look at those who can play without his "skills", he doesn't know how to co-exist really. When he was with CLE, all of the defenses were focused on Lebron. They sagged off of everyone else, thus creating more good looks for his team. But since they have to play Wade, and to an extent Bosh, honest, then it's taking Lebron's game away from him.

**The 24th Letter** · 03-12-2011, 10:28 AM

Thats a good point, but I dont think that he CANT, it just takes time...even now he does get alot of people in their spots...I think come next year hell be alot more efficient.....

Even the great Jason Kidd needs time...when he first came to Dallas everyone proclaimed the trade a fail for Dallas because he didnt instantly gel with the Mavs...

After a while man, you have your teams tendencies so down you just start throwing to spots instead of players lol

**Pared** · 03-12-2011, 10:49 AM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Maybe I'm "focusing too much on stats" but how does LBJ not make players around him better? Look at his assist numbers.

Mind you, I feel the same way to an extent, I just don't think I'd be able to justify that argument because his numbers don't lie - he does get his teammates the ball in a position to score.

**TheShizNo1** · 03-12-2011, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Pared

Maybe I'm "focusing too much on stats" but how does LBJ not make players around him better? Look at his assist numbers.

Mind you, I feel the same way to an extent, I just don't think I'd be able to justify that argument because his numbers don't lie - he does get his teammates the ball in a position to score.

Jose Calderon is averaging more assist than LBJ this season FWIW.....

**Pared** · 03-12-2011, 11:26 AM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Many people have higher numbers. How does that relate to my comment though?

He is still accounting for at least 14 ppg with him dominating the ball. He's getting guys looks open enough to score.

Would anyone not consider that making people around him "better" in a sense?

**TheShizNo1** · 03-12-2011, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Pared

Many people have higher numbers. How does that relate to my comment though?

He is still accounting for at least 14 ppg with him dominating the ball. He's getting guys looks open enough to score.

Would anyone not consider that making people around him "better" in a sense?

You told me to look at his assist(stats) numbers. I did. I noticed I had to scroll down farther to see his than Calderon's. Maybe I misinterpreted your post.

**Xs and Os** · 03-12-2011, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Pared

Many people have higher numbers. How does that relate to my comment though?

He is still accounting for at least 14 ppg with him dominating the ball. He's getting guys looks open enough to score.

Would anyone not consider that making people around him "better" in a sense?

No not at all. You can't look at his numbers as an indication if how his performance affects others. You have to look at their numbers. Most starters who play with Lebron see a dip or no change in their numbers. More important is the on court play, where you see people with one on one skills turning into spot up shooters when playing with James. He is efficient, but it comes at the cost of other players losing confidence in their own talent from underuse. Nash is in stark contrast. People often have their best years playing with him.

I do think this is something he can learn. Many players coming out of HS have one or two key fundamentals missing. He has never had to learn any off ball action, and it hurts the talent around him.

**TheShizNo1** · 03-12-2011, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Xs and Os

No not at all. You can't look at his numbers as an indication if how his performance affects others. You have to look at their numbers. Most starters who play with Lebron see a dip or no change in their numbers. More important is the on court play, where you see people with one on one skills turning into spot up shooters when playing with James. He is efficient, but it comes at the cost of other players losing confidence in their own talent from underuse. Nash is in stark contrast. People often have their best years playing with him.

I do think this is something he can learn. Many players coming out of HS have one or two key fundamentals missing. He has never had to learn any off ball action, and it hurts the talent around him.

Makes me wonder how he'd do with the Magic minus Howard.

**Pared** · 03-12-2011, 12:54 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by Xs and Os

No not at all. You can't look at his numbers as an indication if how his performance affects others. You have to look at their numbers. Most starters who play with Lebron see a dip or no change in their numbers. More important is the on court play, where you see people with one on one skills turning into spot up shooters when playing with James. He is efficient, but it comes at the cost of other players losing confidence in their own talent from underuse. Nash is in stark contrast. People often have their best years playing with him.

I do think this is something he can learn. Many players coming out of HS have one or two key fundamentals missing. He has never had to learn any off ball action, and it hurts the talent around him.

I agree with the off-ball comment. However, on the flip side of that argument he is playing with better and better talent and their numbers HAVE to take a dip one way or another - these are individual stars on .500 teams where they dominated the ball as well.

It would be the equivalent of Jordan, Johnson and Bird all being on the same team and not expecting 2 of the 3's numbers to dip.

**JerzeyReign** · 03-12-2011, 01:02 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Its always good to see Pared in conversation enjoying OS instead of lockin' down threads

What page should I start on to catch up with the 'current' conversation?

The LeBron James Thread

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