The LeBron James Thread

[PrettyT11]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

They weren't making the same shots at a higher percentage, they were making better shots at the same percentage they would have should they have gotten so many of them before.

(sorry for the wordiness but I'm having trouble articulating this point)

You are making my point for me lol. You are saying their percentages went up because LeBron was getting them better shots. So again if he was getting them better shots allowing them to shot at a better percentage which in turn lead to more wins how is that not making things better??

[Xs and Os]

I think Lebron makes the game easy for big men who dunk, but creative scorers have a hard time fitting in with him. Passive personalities cope by defaulting to the role of jumpshooter, but that doesn't work against good teams in the playoffs. Hopefully that's specific enough to keep this from turning into an abstract, black and white issue.

Against good teams in tight situations or the playoffs, Lebron's shortcomings in this area have shown up the most. In the regular season against so-so defensive efforts he gets people easy shots, but when the pressure is on you need to be able to throw several looks at a defense and Lebron's teammates have given up the creativity to execute on that level.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You and LBJ related?

Did LeBron not give you his autograph or something?

I can make lame jokes too.

[TheShizNo1]

Did LeBron not give you his autograph or something?

I can make lame jokes too.

That really wasn't a joke. A lot of people making good points for a good discussion, yours included, you just run and defend him like no other. Reading your posts, he can do no wrong on the court. His short comings are minimized and his accomplishments are made sure to be repeated.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

That really wasn't a joke. A lot of people making good points for a good discussion, yours included, you just run and defend him like no other. Reading your posts, he can do no wrong on the court. His short comings are minimized and his accomplishments are made sure to be repeated.

You don't have context to the LeBron thing, not your fault. You probably haven't seen my other posts about him which are of a completely different tone. I dislike LeBron as much as the biggest Kobe lover does.

Try not to peg people, especially when you don't have context. But people have been making good points throughout the thread and on the topic of Sir James.

LeBron has many holes and flaws in his game, to assume that I think he can do no wrong is just not a smart thing to say.

I'm more focused of late in this thread on people like you, who somehow have come to the conclusion that he has never made his teammates better.

Sure this year, their offense looks pretty cluttered and often times ugly with no identity. That is not really debatable. But to say he never has? That too is just not a smart thing to say.

I'm more focused on responding to the extreme criticisms, which in turn probably made you think the way you do about my posts. Try to look at the big picture and put things into context.

[TheShizNo1]

You don't have context to the LeBron thing, not your fault. You probably haven't seen my other posts about him which are of a completely different tone. I dislike LeBron as much as the biggest Kobe lover does.

Try not to peg people, especially when you don't have context. But people have been making good points throughout the thread and on the topic of Sir James.

LeBron has many holes and flaws in his game, to assume that I think he can do no wrong is just not a smart thing to say.

I'm more focused of late in this thread on people like you, who somehow have come to the conclusion that he has never made his teammates better.

Sure this year, their offense looks pretty cluttered and often times ugly with no identity. That is not really debatable. But to say he never has? That too is just not a smart thing to say.

I'm more focused on responding to the extreme criticisms, which in turn probably made you think the way you do about my posts. Try to look at the big picture and put things into context.

People like me? I haven't made any comment on the whole better teammate thing saying anything like that. As far as being an extremist, the worst thing i said was he's not clutch, IMO. Never said he's the worst clutch player in the NBA or anything to that extent. That being said, I'm going to go ahead and step out of the group you classified me in.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

People like me? I haven't made any comment on the whole better teammate thing saying anything like that. As far as being an extremist, the worst thing i said was he's not clutch, IMO. Never said he's the worst clutch player in the NBA or anything to that extent. That being said, I'm going to go ahead and step out of the group you classified me in.

Ah yes, that's what it was. You said he has never been clutch.

Well it's all the same, 'never been clutch', 'never made his teammates better' etc. etc. Carry on, I just hope you read when I have something negative to say about the guy in the future.

[Kashanova]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

seriously who ever thinks Lebron doesn't makes his teammates better needs to look in the mirror.... The cavs stink this year for a reason...

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

seriously who ever thinks Lebron doesn't makes his teammates better needs to look in the mirror.... The cavs stink this year for a reason...

Missing most of they're best players for signficant chunks of the season at the same time has absolutely nothing to do with it either though of course. Don't get me wrong, they weren't going to be fighting for the top seeds in the conference cause LeBron did mean a WHOLE lot to that team but seeing people constantly talk that mess about that team and just conveniently leaving out the fact that LeBron wasn't the only player (starters mind you) to leave that team and then the injuries they got hit with this year, it's just annoying.

[Chrisksaint]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

If Lebron makes his teammates better, then how come besides Wade and Bosh who we're already good players that the rest of their team basically blows. However he is pretty good at getting his teammates looks and O would put him at 3rd best in the league behind CP3 and deron, which for a SF is pretty good. He just had better role players to work with in Cleveland then he does now

[Kashanova]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Missing most of they're best players for signficant chunks of the season at the same time has absolutely nothing to do with it either though of course. Don't get me wrong, they weren't going to be fighting for the top seeds in the conference cause LeBron did mean a WHOLE lot to that team but seeing people constantly talk that mess about that team and just conveniently leaving out the fact that LeBron wasn't the only player (starters mind you) to leave that team and then the injuries they got hit with this year, it's just annoying.

yeah like who else? the cavs won 66 wins the season before they had jamison or shaq. The players on that team include Szczerbiak, Pavlovic, and a few guys who aren't in the league anymore to top it off the third leading scorer was Ilgauskas, So if your telling me that LBJ didn't make his teammates better to win 66 games I want to know who I forgot to mention who's the second coming.

[capp34]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

WTH is making teammates better anyway? The correct term should be making the game easier for teammates, which most stars do because the defense is focused on them. If said teammates want to get better physically, mentally, or better prepared they will need to put in work in the gym and the film room. All Lebron or any other star can do is put them in a great situation, its up to them to hit the shot, layup, or make the correct play.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

It's not that the players are better or more efficient with LeBron, it's that they get better looks.

There are guys who make people around them better, but that's a leadership thing and a basketball knowledge thing rather than an assist thing. I don't believe LeBron makes anyone better. He just gets them better shots by drawing attention to himself on the offensive end.

Doesn't make "anyone" better is a stretch, but this is a perfect way to put it.

Thats the thing though...

JJ, Mo and Gibson had their best seasons all with LeBron. Your saying those three players were being held BACK by LeBron?...LOL. Funny thing is, they all had a chance to prove it this year...and it didnt work out so well.

I think your oversimplifying it a bit...getting the ball to those open players is not something just any player can do...your saying Joe Johnson could open up the floor and move the ball to open players like LeBron did? You call it "standing still" I call it spacing the floor...

When you join a team, or get new pieces, your role shifts and changes....

AK47 was an all star and the main scorer before Deron came to Utah....now hes a role player (not at his "best")...so Deron doesnt make his teamates better?

There is an abundance of examples like that...

Its not about your personal best, its how you best fit on the team...sure everyone around Bron in CLeveland was a role player, what else could they be? lol

King beat me to it. This year's Cavs team has had more problems to deal with than just James leaving. They needed pretty much everything to go right just to be competitive after arguably the most talented player in the NBA left. But they also lost other starters and big contributors AND have had injuries to pretty much all of the best players they had left on the team.

Looking at the record then vs now doesn't make much sense. NO one would argue that they aren't a MUCH worse team without Lebron. SO if you want to say James made the team better by being on it... of course that's true. Not the same thing though.

WTH is making teammates better anyway? The correct term should be making the game easier for teammates, which most stars do because the defense is focused on them. If said teammates want to get better physically, mentally, or better prepared they will need to put in work in the gym and the film room. All Lebron or any other star can do is put them in a great situation, its up to them to hit the shot, layup, or make the correct play.

They are two different things. Any player that requires a double team makes the game easier for his teammates by just stepping on the floor. Making players "better" (or really, appear better) is more than just getting them open jump shots... unless we're talking about a pure jump shooter (like Gibson for example). Nash and Kidd are perfect examples. They don't compare directly to James bc they don't demand double teams and aren't big scorers, but you can watch them play to see how they actually make the players around them better. They get the ball to players not only in spots for open jumpers, but in the best position for them to score (which could be a number of different ways). They read the defense and make the best decision 90% of the time. James' talent makes it less necessary for him to do this, but that's not what we're discussing. I've always questioned his decision making... but in his defense, I do put a lot of that on the coach (unless we have proof that he's going against the coach's wishes more times than not).

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

yeah like who else? the cavs won 66 wins the season before they had jamison or shaq. The players on that team include Szczerbiak, Pavlovic, and a few guys who aren't in the league anymore to top it off the third leading scorer was Ilgauskas, So if your telling me that LBJ didn't make his teammates better to win 66 games I want to know who I forgot to mention who's the second coming.

I didn't say someone was the second coming and I didn't say LeBron didn't make the guys better, but don't give me this BS that LeBron and ONLY LeBron is the reason they're where they are right now when that is clearly and obviously isn't the case.

Doesn't make "anyone" better is a stretch, but this is a perfect way to put it.



King beat me to it. This year's Cavs team has had more problems to deal with than just James leaving. They needed pretty much everything to go right just to be competitive after arguably the most talented player in the NBA left. But they also lost other starters and big contributors AND have had injuries to pretty much all of the best players they had left on the team.

Looking at the record then vs now doesn't make much sense. NO one would argue that they aren't a MUCH worse team without Lebron. SO if you want to say James made the team better by being on it... of course that's true. Not the same thing though.

Pretty much this, thank you.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

And you guys show me where I said trash or "no help". Please.

OSU still couldn't find any, and I don't expect you guys to find any either.

Instead of jumping to conclusions try actually responding to what I say. As I said, the past two years he's had decent help, not to par to the powers.

Before that, he's had absolute trash.

Simple enough?

I'm sorry, man.