The LeBron James Thread

[da ThRONe]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

No, it's not ok for two prime top 5 players, and an additional All Star to conspire together to join one another through free agency in hopes of making their path to a title easier. If that's what you're asking.

Says who? A lot of people said this would blow up in their faces. They said Miami had no other good players and that you can't win a title that way. That the lack of interior talent would be their undoing. Now that it working it's non competitive and cheating.

[Bumi]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Says who?

So says me. Says the majority of Basketball fans. Says integrity.

A lot of people said this would blow up in their faces.

It blew up in LeBron's. He's on a team where he's been reduced to a role player. The "chosen one" is now apart of a roster which hails another player who refers to himself as the leader, the captain. A superior.

So yes, James will get his ring, but he'll never earn respect. He could have been so much more, but we are the choices we make.

They said Miami had no other good players and that you can't win a title that way. That the lack of interior talent would be their undoing

I never said that. I've had Miami in the finals since the "decision".

Now that it working it's non competitive and cheating.

Are you insinuating that no one was upset when the decision was initially made?

[da ThRONe]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

So says me. Says the majority of Basketball fans. Says integrity.



It blew up in LeBron's. He's on a team where he's been reduced to a role player. The "chosen one" is now apart of a roster which hails another player who refers to himself as the leader, the captain. A superior.

So yes, James will get his ring, but he'll never earn respect. He could have been so much more, but we are the choices we make.



I never said that. I've had Miami in the finals since the "decision".



Are you insinuating that no one was upset when the decision was initially made?

Calling LeBron a role player is all the proof that I need that no matter what anybody says you will not look at things objectively.

What wrong with sports isn't friend choosing to join sides to win and taking pay cut to do so. The problem with sports is the pressure placed on a player were he has to worry about his legacy for a lack of rings in a team sport. Comparing him to players that were never in his shoes.

As far as the majority of basketball fans they are bandwagoners this Heat team continue to win and all the moral crap will be out the window.

Were people upset about the decision and the decision to have a decision yep. Many basketball people also said they weren't winning titles at all let alone year 1.

[Bumi]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

[quote=da ThRONe;2042465362]Calling LeBron a role player is all the proof that I need that no matter what anybody says you will not look at things objectively.[quote]

What would you have me call him? He's Scottie. As good as Scottie was, he was a role player. Robin, whatever.

What wrong with sports isn't friend choosing to join sides to win and taking pay cut to do so. The problem with sports is the pressure placed on a player were he has to worry about his legacy for a lack of rings in a team sport. Comparing him to players that were never in his shoes

Players striving to be the best, the greatest, is what's wrong with sports?

As far as the majority of basketball fans they are bandwagoners this Heat team continue to win and all the moral crap will be out the window.

Wishful thinking. No one is going to forget the decision.

Were people upset about the decision and the decision to have a decision yep. Many basketball people also said they weren't winning titles at all let alone year 1.

I'm not sure what relevance that has, but ok.

[mKoz26]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

What would you have me call him? He's Scottie. As good as Scottie was, he was a role player. Robin, whatever.

If LeBron is a role player, I guess Michael Jordan was too. And every other NBA player, ever.

Despite the fact that LeBron has higher per game averages than Dwyane Wade in just about everything during these playoffs, he's been determined to be just a Robin to Wade's Batman by you. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Oh, and don't pull out the "closer" BS, because we already debunked the myth that all "Batmen" must take over the scoring load during crunch time with your boy Shaq.

[capp34]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Man the HOF must be full of role players.

[Bumi]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

If LeBron is a role player, I guess Michael Jordan was too. And every other NBA player, ever.

Michael deferred to a superior teammate? Was carried through the finals? Someone else on the Bulls referred to themselves as the Captain, the leader? Michael's captain got onto him for his tentativeness in late game situations? etc?

Despite the fact that LeBron has higher per game averages than Dwyane Wade in just about everything during these playoffs, he's been determined to be just a Robin to Wade's Batman by you. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Whose been Batman, and whose been Robin in the finals? Whose lead the way?

Oh, and don't pull out the "closer" BS, because we already debunked the myth that all "Batmen" must take over the scoring load during crunch time with your boy Shaq.

And since you obviously missed them.

1999-2000 Finals
Shaq: 38/17/2.5/61fg%
Kobe: 16/5/4/36fg%

2000-2001 Finals
Shaq: 33/16/5/57fg%
Kobe: 24/8/6/41fg%

2001-2002 Finals
Shaq: 37/12.3/4/60fg%
Kobe: 26/5.75/5/51fg%

Would you like for me to post Wade and LeBron's finals numbers?

[mKoz26]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Michael deferred to a superior teammate? Was carried through the finals? Someone else on the Bulls referred to themselves as the Captain, the leader? Michael's captain got onto him for his tentativeness in late game situations? etc?



Whose been Batman, and whose been Robin in the finals? Whose lead the way?



And since you obviously missed them.

1999-2000 Finals
Shaq: 38/17/2.5/61fg%
Kobe: 16/5/4/36fg%

2000-2001 Finals
Shaq: 33/16/5/57fg%
Kobe: 24/8/6/41fg%

2001-2002 Finals
Shaq: 37/12.3/4/60fg%
Kobe: 26/5.75/5/51fg%

Would you like for me to post Wade and LeBron's finals numbers?

So the 3 games of these finals overshadow the entire postseason thus far?

Okay then. Done talking to you if that's the case. Your past claim was that if one defers during the final minute then that one is not the "Batman". Shaq deferred in the final minute. Does that make Kobe Batman?

[Bumi]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

So the 3 games of these finals overshadow the entire postseason thus far?

Are you serious? Those are entire finals runs. Shaq was markedly better than Kobe in every finals they won together.

LeBron hasn't been markedly better than Wade in the playoffs. Wade has been significantly better than LeBron in the finals though.

Okay then. Done talking to you if that's the case. Your past claim was that if one defers during the final minute then that one is not the "Batman". Shaq deferred in the final minute. Does that make Kobe Batman?

Quote that claim for me if you don't mind.

[mKoz26]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Are you serious? Those are entire finals runs. Shaq was markedly better than Kobe in every finals they won together.

I agree completely. I was referring to your analysis of LeBron and Wade.

LeBron hasn't been markedly better than Wade in the playoffs. Wade has been significantly better than LeBron in the finals though.

Including the 3 games of the finals, LeBron still has better averages than Wade for the playoffs.

Quote that claim for me if you don't mind.

Well, there's this:

At what point, ever, has the best player in the league deferred to a teammate? Any era.

Followed by this:

If you're playing second fiddle results in wins, then you aren't the best player on your team. If someone else being the Alpha results in success, then they're the best player on the team.

At some points, Shaq played second fiddle. (obviously the end of games)

By your logic, because Shaq deferred to a teammate, and it resulted in wins, Shaq isn't the best player on his team. Right?

[55]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

It's not even worth it, bro.

[BaselineBakes]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

It's not even worth it, bro.

this ^ , I even feel dumb for going back and forth with this nonsense earlier.

[Bumi]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I agree completely. I was referring to your analysis of LeBron and Wade. Including the 3 games of the finals, LeBron still has better averages than Wade for the playoffs.

Their overall playoffs numbers are essentially a wash. Their finals numbers aren't though.

Well, there's this:

So then I didn't say what you claimed I did.

At some points, Shaq played second fiddle. (obviously the end of games)

Our definition of playing "second fiddle" is obviously different.

By your logic, because Shaq deferred to a teammate, and it resulted in wins, Shaq isn't the best player on his team. Right?

Shaq didn't defer to a teammate. It was blatantly clear that he was the best player on the Lakers, and he proved it during those championship runs. At no point was Kobe the leader, the alpha, the captain, etc. It's the very reason some fans don't give Kobe full credit for his first three rings.

Much like our interpretations of "second fiddle", our perceptions of deferment also differ.

[mKoz26]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Their overall playoffs numbers are essentially a wash. Their finals numbers aren't though.



So then I didn't say what you claimed I did.



Our definition of playing "second fiddle" is obviously different.



Shaq didn't defer to a teammate. It was blatantly clear that he was the best player on the Lakers, and he proved it during those championship runs. At no point was Kobe the leader, the alpha, the captain, etc. It's the very reason some fans don't give Kobe full credit for his first three rings.

Much like our interpretations of "second fiddle", our perceptions of deferment also differ.

You seriously can't even follow a logical progression. Wow.

Okay, like I said, we're done here.

[Bumi]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

You seriously can't even follow a logical progression. Wow.

Not when it's inherently fallacious, no. I'm no good with straw man arguments.

Okay, like I said, we're done here.

And I'll close with...

"So (I was) just trying to lead. My guys did a great job of following that"

Wade