The LeBron James Thread

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  • SoxFan01605
    All Star
    • Jan 2008
    • 7982

    #9796
    Re: The LeBron James Thread

    Originally posted by wwharton
    But the question (or leading statement I guess) is about the supporting cast. Whether it was James doing his own Iso thing, or Brown not having a good enough offense, I always thought the problem was more in the plays and sets than the talent. And while I agree that leadership was an issue, it's a head scratcher with LBJ, Shaq and Jamison on the team. That one shouldn't have been. But I think last year's Cavs was probably every bit as "talented" as this year's Mavs. They just didn't have the right situation to prove it... or the situation they had was actually good enough but the mutiny in the Boston series stopped them short of being able to find a way to make it work.
    I agree, but talent is rarely an issue when talking about supporting casts for teams that make a playoff run (read: more than one and done). There's normally enough base talent. I think the type of talent relative to who you're building around matters.

    You mentioned it yourself that the style of Lebron vs Dirk make a difference. LBJ didn't really have any shooters or a distributor either. He was expected to create his shot, his teammates shot, be everything. Dirk doesn't have to run the offense AND be the offense which is what I think held back LBJ in Cleveland. Add in the coaching and management of personnel (which Dallas has done very well IMO), and you've got the difference. I definitely agree with you that the difference in pure talent between LBJ's Cavs and this year's Mavs are negligible.

    When LBJ went into distributor mode, the Cavs could still score because Mo and Jamison can do some things, but neither is a guy you'd want trying to close out an opponent either. So when he had to take back over, I think better teams could sense it and confuse/lock him up to an extent.

    I think that's where LBJ's mental shortcomings come into play. I don't think he does well shifting from facilitating to taking over. He doesn't seem to have that "switch" so to speak. I sometimes think his well-rounded abilities actually hinder him in that regard...it's like he can't ever figure out what type of player he is.

    As for this playoff run by the Mavs, aside from being more mature/experienced and better handled, I think some of it can also simply be attributed to a bit of luck and just being hot. Sometimes a team turns it on at the right time...not because they are more "clutch" but because things just timed out well.

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    • KG
      Welcome Back
      • Sep 2005
      • 17583

      #9797
      Re: The LeBron James Thread

      Originally posted by SoxFan01605
      I think that's where LBJ's mental shortcomings come into play. I don't think he does well shifting from facilitating to taking over. He doesn't seem to have that "switch" so to speak. I sometimes think his well-rounded abilities actually hinder him in that regard...it's like he can't ever figure out what type of player he is.
      I think some of that is made worse by Wade. Not saying Wade is at fault but when you have another great player who is capable of dominating stretches you can go into coast mode and sometimes it's hard to get out of. Even his FGA's in the 4th are way down.

      If I'm MIA I'd still have rather have Bron on the ball. I think he's a better playmaker. Wade's probably better at scoring 1-on-1 but he can play off the ball when he's determined. He's shown flashes of being a terror on cuts and the offensive glass.
      Twitter Instagram - kgx2thez

      Comment

      • bigfnjoe96
        Hall Of Fame
        • Feb 2004
        • 11410

        #9798
        Re: The LeBron James Thread

        The A-Rod/LBJ comparison is a good-1. The difference for me is A-ROD didn't choose to come to the Yanks, while LBJ chose to go to Miami. Both are very intriguing personalities. Both seem to find ther way into the spot light even when they don't want to..\

        Good call ehh
        Last edited by bigfnjoe96; 06-10-2011, 08:52 PM.

        Comment

        • Kashanova
          Hall Of Fame
          • Aug 2003
          • 12695

          #9799
          Re: The LeBron James Thread

          Originally posted by bigfnjoe96
          The A-Rod/LBJ comparison is a good-1. The difference for me is A-ROD didn't choose to come to the Yanks, while LBJ chose to go to Miami. Both are very intriguing personalities. Both seem to find ther way into the spot light even when they don't want to..\

          Good call ehh
          Arod has a ring and is one of the main reason they want it all in 09, he had a lot of clutch ABs

          Comment

          • The Big Squeezy
            Pro
            • May 2011
            • 796

            #9800
            Re: The LeBron James Thread

            That triple double holds less weight than the one he had in Game 6 of the Boston series last year. Yeah, it's a triple double, but it in no way helped his team.
            Browns
            Cavaliers
            Indians
            Buckeyes
            Originally posted by snepp
            Ken Dilger, weapon.
            Someone needs to set this thread on fire.

            Comment

            • bigfnjoe96
              Hall Of Fame
              • Feb 2004
              • 11410

              #9801
              Re: The LeBron James Thread

              Originally posted by Kashanova
              Arod has a ring and is one of the main reason they want it all in 09, he had a lot of clutch ABs
              He sure was clutch in 09.. He basically carried the Yanks offensively in that post season

              Comment

              • ehh
                Hall Of Fame
                • Mar 2003
                • 28962

                #9802
                Re: The LeBron James Thread

                Originally posted by Kashanova
                Arod has a ring and is one of the main reason they want it all in 09, he had a lot of clutch ABs
                Kash, I did start the comparison by saying he reminded me of ARod up through 2008.

                I know ARod was the man for us in the 2009 postseason, it was probably the most surprising thing I've ever witnessed as a Yankee fan lol.
                "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                Comment

                • HMcCoy
                  All Star
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 8212

                  #9803
                  Re: The LeBron James Thread

                  Originally posted by SoxFan01605
                  Honestly, it's both. The supporting cast didn't have enough to turn to if Lebron wasn't on his game 100%. He had to be dominant nearly every night for them to have a legit chance against any good team. For all the rumbling about his mentality, etc the guy carried that Cleveland team farther than most players could IMO.
                  That's not entirely true. History rarely remembers the details...just wins and losses. But in the 07-08 series vs BOS that went to game 7, Lebron shot the ball TURRIBLY (was 2 for 18 in game one!) for 6 straight games until that breakout last game where he dropped 44. Most folks gave him a pass since he was also holding PP to a horrible shooting % also, so they were washing each other out, but in the Cavs three wins, Bron shot 33% and avg'd 4.5 TO's. People also forget that in the game 6 against the Pistons when they made it to the Finals, the game after he went off for the last 25 points...it was Booby that dropped 31 including 19 IN THE FOURTH to close out the Stones, not LeBron, who managed 20 pts on 3-11 shooting. LeBron likes to blame his cast, but his cast carried his a** more than once.

                  Bottom line, we were fooled. I was fooled. I would have bet my life savings that LeBron was going to be "that" guy who could close out big games if the team kept it close. 4 of 6 games in the ORL series games were decided by 2 pts or less...and I was on this very site talking big ish that Lebron would win us those close games. He won us one...with a miracle shot. Dude relies way too much on trying to demoralize the opponent with hero shots and 1-on 1 offense down the stretch. When he's hot, it's magnificent to watch, IE the 25 straight vs DET, and the CHI series this year. Most times though, it was turnovers, charges and missed FT's from Bronny down the stretch.

                  He's still relatively young though...some one will eventually teach him to do things the easy way in crunch time vs. always trying to do them the grandiose way.
                  Last edited by HMcCoy; 06-11-2011, 11:25 PM.
                  Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

                  Comment

                  • HMcCoy
                    All Star
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 8212

                    #9804
                    Re: The LeBron James Thread

                    Originally posted by BaselineBakes
                    General question, how many current players in the NBA have had a better good to bad playoff game ratio than Lebron?

                    Not an easy question and pretty subjective actually, but I'm just wondering why these past two-three games are defining his entire playoff career, like it's suppose to be a given he come's through in the clutch 100% of the time?
                    LeBron likes to do very difficult things when it matters most, and that didn't just start. He's a beast, but the law of averages says that low-percentage offense is low-percentage offense. There hasn't been a LBJ playoff game that I haven't watched several times over his entire career, and again, Bron does it big either way...he either gets into a crazy rhythm and kills it, or plays tight. Cavs fans know that missing FT's and turning the ball over in BIG games is not uncommon. But its tough to criticize a few rough minutes when he's giving you 38/8/8 (ORL series), lol. Gotta call a duck a duck, though...Bron's IQ goes out the window in the last 3 minutes or so of close games. Tries to be Kobe.

                    Broken record, but hes still a kid, and still has alot of room to grow in his game. Also, it matters that he never had an elite PG or coach to help with crunchtime game management. I hate his guts right now, but I can admit that.
                    Last edited by HMcCoy; 06-12-2011, 12:19 AM.
                    Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

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                    • BaselineBakes
                      MVP
                      • Dec 2006
                      • 1510

                      #9805
                      Re: The LeBron James Thread

                      Sorry for the delete, thought twice about getting into this again, but you definitely gave a solid answer and I agree with your points, just think it's crazy how high expectations are for this guy. Yes I've heard it a thousand times he brings it on himself with the nicknames and the ad campaigns but I'm not sure why even with all those exterior things he catches so much flack for a generally successful playoff career so far.

                      Comment

                      • Kashanova
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 12695

                        #9806
                        Re: The LeBron James Thread

                        Originally posted by ehh
                        Kash, I did start the comparison by saying he reminded me of ARod up through 2008.

                        I know ARod was the man for us in the 2009 postseason, it was probably the most surprising thing I've ever witnessed as a Yankee fan lol.
                        and for me the most gratifying. It was great to see him finally come through

                        Comment

                        • wwharton
                          *ll St*r
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 26949

                          #9807
                          Re: The LeBron James Thread

                          Originally posted by BaselineBakes
                          Sorry for the delete, thought twice about getting into this again, but you definitely gave a solid answer and I agree with your points, just think it's crazy how high expectations are for this guy. Yes I've heard it a thousand times he brings it on himself with the nicknames and the ad campaigns but I'm not sure why even with all those exterior things he catches so much flack for a generally successful playoff career so far.
                          I also think the reason why this current playoffs holds so much weight is bc HE didn't feel his playoff career to this point was successful. If he stayed in Cleveland, he would've continued getting all kinds of passes, time to develop, time to get players around him, etc.

                          BTW, some great replies to my question about the Cavs vs the Mavs. I do want to throw out there that those Cavs were one of the best defensive teams in the NBA too... but to continue with the comparison, I think the unfair judgement of the Mavs over the years also showed that Dirk had to get to THIS point to properly carry his team. I think we all expected LBJ to be at that point bc he's so talented, but (as mentioned) he's still a kid with a lot to learn. We saw plenty of places to point fingers... he pointed fingers. But now the expectations are much higher bc where's he going to point?

                          Some might think it's fair and some may not, but I think it makes sense either way.

                          Comment

                          • wheelman990
                            Banned
                            • Oct 2008
                            • 2233

                            #9808
                            Re: The LeBron James Thread

                            Just watching the Heat in the finals really shows that not only is this Wades team, but I actually think he is a better player. Lebrons got skills, no doubt there, but I think Wades a smarter player, and I actually think he has played like he has to win, and Lebron kind of plays like he expects Wade to bail him out. Just my opinions from watching.

                            Comment

                            • kobe8ryant24
                              Rookie
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 17

                              #9809
                              Re: The LeBron James Thread

                              LeBron had the talent and FAILED! what's your excuse now Heat/LeBron bandwagon fans???

                              Comment

                              • TheRealCar10ck
                                Banned
                                • May 2011
                                • 180

                                #9810
                                Re: The LeBron James Thread

                                Originally posted by kobe8ryant24
                                LeBron had the talent and FAILED! what's your excuse now Heat/LeBron bandwagon fans???
                                LeBron is a bum. But so is Kobe. Dirk is the German Moses

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