The LeBron James Thread

[airjoca]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

It's just another part of the game. Let it go aready. I will that is a smart play though. Haywood was having trouble moving his feet. And was forced to make contact with LeBron's body. And he just sold the call to the ref. Can't complain one bit.

Smart? Damn... Find me a video of Jordan flopping like this and I will donate all my money to the poor. And I'm almost poor myself...

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Smart? Damn... Find me a video of Jordan flopping like this and I will donate all my money to the poor. And I'm almost poor myself...

What does Jordan have to do with this play?

Since you want to go down this road. Tell me what players from back in the day did any of the things we see today? Probably could name a few. But even Jordan has done some sort of flopping in his time.

[WTF]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

A smart play jeebs? What world are we living in when acting and dramatics take over a mans game? You're willing to sit there and say it's a smart play, and something that is a favorable aspect of the game?

Anyone who defends that play, or any other flop is not a fan of sports or competition. If there is contact, and you sell it above and beyond whatever. If there's no contact, and you're continuously sacrificing the games integrity by pulling stuff like that, then that's pathetic. Same with the "swipe" by rose on Lebron, where he didn't hit him in the least, but LBJ acted like he'd been punched in the face. Get real.

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Look man...

Everyone may look at it as cheap bail out type of call. But it's part of the game. Until refs stop calling it. Players will keep doing WHATEVER it takes to get a edge. I remember the first time I saw Shaq flop in Laker game I thought I was crazy. But it is just part of the game. You have to sell calls to the ref. And it's a smart play no matter what. It's just another part of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb0a8moqWYs

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I see your point, but I think from a fan stand point, fans appreciate loyalty (though it's damn near non-existant in sports these days). We appreciate a Dirk or a John Elway who stays the course, goes through the ups and downs and eventually earns the championship that he's worked so hard for.

Elway probably isn't the best example.

OK this is where I draw the line. Mavs had a much more balanced team, and if you're really gonna compare JKidd to Mo Williams, or Jason Terry to whomever you want from Cleveland, that's on you.

Cleveland never had a guy like Tyson Chandler. Never had a guy like JJ Barrea. Never had a guy like Shawn Marion.

So let's leave it there man.

I was surprised you didn't respond when I brought this up about a week ago. I'm not going to retype all of it (it's somewhere in this thread) but this is revisionist history at its finest. There's a reason everyone thought Dallas would lose in the first round. It was bc Terry was considered a playoff choker (like Mo), and Kidd and Marion have a foot out the door. Coming into this playoff season, the guys around Dirk weren't considered any better than the guys around LBJ last year. Chandler deserves the credit you're giving him, even before we saw how this all played out. But other than him, every single player including Dirk was being underrated AND that's not even considering that some overachieved.

Mo, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq, West, Varejao most definitely match up with the core of the Mavs coming into the playoffs. Those guys stepped up their game, and my point has always been that we can't say for sure that these guys wouldn't also if given the opportunity. And considering we all kind of agree that James quit against the Celtics, they may have had the opportunity just last year.

If I were to look at it I'd compare Kidd to Shaq, not position to position. That's comparing playoff/championship game experience and the gamble of if they're too old to produce. Remember, Shaq was one of the best players on the Cavs in the playoffs last year.

The argument that I think Dice made, I can't deny. There's a difference between having everything come together for a championship and being in a position to have a good shot at winning year after year. But I do think people go too far with the supporting cast on the Cavs "sucking". They very well could've done what Dallas did this year... or even added their version of Chandler, the piece that brings it all together. It's not as far fetched as you want to make it seem.

[WTF]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I don't care if you think they NEED to do it to get an edge. Man the crap up and play the game the right way. If players would stop being so soft and looking for the bailouts, then the league would go back to being a tougher league, and overall viewed a better product.

You get an EDGE by playing the game the right way. Half of the flop attempts by Wade or Lebron, if they would have made the right play and tried to finish the shot instead of creating extra dramatics, then they would have possibly been hoisting a trophy instead of taking more offseason drama classes for next season.

Don't give me the crap about getting an edge. Why would a 'fan' of basketball give these guys the okay to turn this sport into more of a spectacle ala WWE than actual basketball? That's the way the game is heading, is a drama filled flop fest, and hopefully all of you who want that type of product are happy with it.

It was VERY refreshing to watch the Grizzlies/Thunder series actually playing hard core basketball, taking it back and forth at one another not looking at the refs after every play. It's not that there were no flops in the series, as I'm sure there were, but it was nowhere near prominent as any of the Heat games.

Guys just need to man up and play with a little integrity.

[wheelman990]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Yea I'm totally seriously. We all play street ball here. That is why that wouldn't get called in one of our games. But in the pros.. when everything counts. That is a actor job by LeBron. Like I said everyone does it. Young players don't do when they get into the league at first like Derrick Rose. But as they get older. And learn the tricks of the trade. You will start to see them doing it a lot more. I remember Billups didn't do when he first got in the league. Now he does so often. As a defender you just have to know.

I didn't like the move Durant does to get to the free throw. I thought he was just talented as a player to be doing a move so much that he can average 10 points a game on that rip through shooting motion. Your selling a call to the ref. As a defender you just have to know.

edit: I wish someone could make a mix of the most stupid calls in the NBA. Now that would be funny.

I can't believe you are being serious here. This is cheating. We can call it what we like, but it's cheating. Even if a player cheats and nobody else knows about it, it's cheating. This is a exploit, same as a exploit someone would do in video gaming.

I couldnt live with myself playing like this. I mean, to know I had to do a acting job to beat my opponent? Come on, drive that ball in there and play the game.

What is worse is it's almost like it's a heat stradegy they discuss. There is at least 4 flops by the heat shown on youtube for just this years playoffs/finals. Rediculous.

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I don't care if you think they NEED to do it to get an edge. Man the crap up and play the game the right way. If players would stop being so soft and looking for the bailouts, then the league would go back to being a tougher league, and overall viewed a better product.

You get an EDGE by playing the game the right way. Half of the flop attempts by Wade or Lebron, if they would have made the right play and tried to finish the shot instead of creating extra dramatics, then they would have possibly been hoisting a trophy instead of taking more offseason drama classes for next season.

Don't give me the crap about getting an edge. Why would a 'fan' of basketball give these guys the okay to turn this sport into more of a spectacle ala WWE than actual basketball? That's the way the game is heading, is a drama filled flop fest, and hopefully all of you who want that type of product are happy with it.

It was VERY refreshing to watch the Grizzlies/Thunder series actually playing hard core basketball, taking it back and forth at one another not looking at the refs after every play. It's not that there were no flops in the series, as I'm sure there were, but it was nowhere near prominent as any of the Heat games.

Guys just need to man up and play with a little integrity.

I think you guys are just taking it the wrong way. I don't like to see flops. I also wish players would MAN UP. But it is just part of the game now for me. I don't mind you guys complaining about it. I'm surprise most of you just don't move on from it. "Great acting job by the player, Bad call by the refs"

Never seen this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD8wkMZ1pMI

I can't believe you are being serious here. This is cheating. We can call it what we like, but it's cheating. Even if a player cheats and nobody else knows about it, it's cheating. This is a exploit, same as a exploit someone would do in video gaming.

I couldnt live with myself playing like this. I mean, to know I had to do a acting job to beat my opponent? Come on, drive that ball in there and play the game.

What is worse is it's almost like it's a heat stradegy they discuss. There is at least 4 flops by the heat shown on youtube for just this years playoffs/finals. Rediculous.

You can find a flop by each player in the league. And it will make you think twice about it. The Heat team are just under a big scope period. Anything they do is bigger than it really suppose to be. And that is not an excuse for all the BS they have done. Don't get me wrong. They deserved exactly what they got this season.

But also your not in the league. You might play semi-play ball or whatever. And needed every single edge to win. You would do it.

[wheelman990]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Look man...

Everyone may look at it as cheap bail out type of call. But it's part of the game. Until refs stop calling it. Players will keep doing WHATEVER it takes to get a edge. I remember the first time I saw Shaq flop in Laker game I thought I was crazy. But it is just part of the game. You have to sell calls to the ref. And it's a smart play no matter what. It's just another part of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb0a8moqWYs

That isn't a flop IMO. He was pushed(and reacted), he didnt just fall over without being touched.

To me, these are completely different. We are talking about just falling over without even being touched.

Specially since in my videos they had the ball, and they chose to flop. In this video you provided, shaq is on defense, he is trying to take a charge the best way a 300LB+ dude can,lol.

It was a very poor charge attempt IMO. But I wouldnt call it a flop. I could see shaq doing one though.

Just my opinion.

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

That isn't a flop IMO. He was pushed(and reacted), he didnt just fall over without being touched.

To me, these are completely different. We are talking about just falling over without even being touched.

Specially since in my videos they had the ball, and they chose to flop. In this video you provided, shaq is on defense, he is trying to take a charge the best way a 300LB+ dude can,lol.

It was a very poor charge attempt IMO. But I wouldnt call it a flop. I could see shaq doing one though.

Just my opinion.

Come one... Shaq at whatever he weights vs Dirk at whatever he weights... Shaq should be on the floor all the time. Haha...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5w4FVhAUjY

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Elway probably isn't the best example.



I was surprised you didn't respond when I brought this up about a week ago. I'm not going to retype all of it (it's somewhere in this thread) but this is revisionist history at its finest. There's a reason everyone thought Dallas would lose in the first round. It was bc Terry was considered a playoff choker (like Mo), and Kidd and Marion have a foot out the door. Coming into this playoff season, the guys around Dirk weren't considered any better than the guys around LBJ last year. Chandler deserves the credit you're giving him, even before we saw how this all played out. But other than him, every single player including Dirk was being underrated AND that's not even considering that some overachieved.

Mo, Jamison, Hickson, Shaq, West, Varejao most definitely match up with the core of the Mavs coming into the playoffs. Those guys stepped up their game, and my point has always been that we can't say for sure that these guys wouldn't also if given the opportunity. And considering we all kind of agree that James quit against the Celtics, they may have had the opportunity just last year.

If I were to look at it I'd compare Kidd to Shaq, not position to position. That's comparing playoff/championship game experience and the gamble of if they're too old to produce. Remember, Shaq was one of the best players on the Cavs in the playoffs last year.

The argument that I think Dice made, I can't deny. There's a difference between having everything come together for a championship and being in a position to have a good shot at winning year after year. But I do think people go too far with the supporting cast on the Cavs "sucking". They very well could've done what Dallas did this year... or even added their version of Chandler, the piece that brings it all together. It's not as far fetched as you want to make it seem.

What's the problem with a team proving the expectations wrong? Haha. We thought one way, but they proved to be better than that. What's the big deal? Cleveland had the same ending several years in a row.

Shaq to Kidd? Really? I can't do that. Kidd could actually play more than 20 MPG, haha. Kidd actually had way more control of the offense and yeah comparing PG's to C's isn't exactly the best thing to do.

Let's give credit where credit's due, to Dallas. Marion proved he was still one of the best defenders in the league, and produced offensively all playoffs long.

Kidd proved he still has maybe another year left in him. He pretty much handled Kobe, and wasn't a liability against OKC or Miami.

Terry didn't choke. Give him his credit man, everyone knows how good Terry is. It's just that in the playoffs he seemed to vanish. He didn't this time around, so he deserves to be elevated somewhat.

It's not revisionist history, lol. Dallas actually went out there and proved themselves, they overachieved sure, but looking at whom they went through, that in itself lends me to elevate them above what LeBron had in Cleveland for sure. I mean seriously, look at who Dallas had to go through.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Just to add to this, that type of logic is what I've been seeing after Dallas won.

It's like, since they weren't really expected to win it all, somehow people try to discredit the team overall or Dirk individually.

How does that make any sense at all?

It's not as if Terry, Kidd and Dirk coming into the playoffs were viewed as inferior or "not good". These guys and Marion and Chandler have all proven to have contributed at high levels throughout their careers, the one thing holding them back was getting a ring.

Cleveland same thing, Mo, Jamison, those guys were known to have contributed at high levels before, but the one thing holding them back were their post season performances.

So when Kidd, Dirk, Matrix etc. etc. finally get over the hump, I see people just trying to knock them down again? I see people calling it revisionist history when comparing this Dallas team to Cleveland? That really makes no sense at all.

These guys were all capable players, Dallas players as well as Mo and Jamison etc. etc., but what was separating people was post season success.

If Mo and Jamison Andy etc. etc. go out and help a team get to a title, I'll sing a different tune about them just like Marion/JET/Matrix.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

What's the problem with a team proving the expectations wrong? Haha. We thought one way, but they proved to be better than that. What's the big deal? Cleveland had the same ending several years in a row.

Shaq to Kidd? Really? I can't do that. Kidd could actually play more than 20 MPG, haha. Kidd actually had way more control of the offense and yeah comparing PG's to C's isn't exactly the best thing to do.

Let's give credit where credit's due, to Dallas. Marion proved he was still one of the best defenders in the league, and produced offensively all playoffs long.

Kidd proved he still has maybe another year left in him. He pretty much handled Kobe, and wasn't a liability against OKC or Miami.

Terry didn't choke. Give him his credit man, everyone knows how good Terry is. It's just that in the playoffs he seemed to vanish. He didn't this time around, so he deserves to be elevated somewhat.

It's not revisionist history, lol. Dallas actually went out there and proved themselves, they overachieved sure, but looking at whom they went through, that in itself lends me to elevate them above what LeBron had in Cleveland for sure. I mean seriously, look at who Dallas had to go through.

I don't know if you're missing my point, I'm not following you or you're just going OT. I give Dallas all the credit in the world. But I think it's funny that AFTER they win a championship, these players are looked at much differently than they were before. Nothing wrong with that at all, when we're talking about the Mavs. But comparing them to the Cavs, we have to go by what people thought of them BEFORE they won the championship. Back when people didn't think Dirk was in the same league as Lebron and the players around him weren't close to being able to bring Dallas a championship. This would have to be the argument of anyone who said "Lebron could never win with the sorry supporting cast he had in Cleveland".

The point is simply that Lebron's supposed to be better than Dirk and the supporting cast in Dallas wasn't thought much differently than the one in Cleveland. So the idea that the Cavs could never win with that group loses credibility. If Dallas lost to Portland or OKC, then the same things people are saying about the Cavs supporting cast would continue to be said about the guys around Dirk. And it wouldn't have taken much for either of those teams to have won, or for the Cavs to have beaten the Celtics last year.

Like I said, the team wasn't built like a juggernaut and the idea of repeating would be a stretch... that's a valid argument. But they were good enough to win.

And you may want to go back and see what Shaq did in the playoffs for the Cavs last year.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

What's the problem with a team proving the expectations wrong? Haha. We thought one way, but they proved to be better than that. What's the big deal? Cleveland had the same ending several years in a row.

Shaq to Kidd? Really? I can't do that. Kidd could actually play more than 20 MPG, haha. Kidd actually had way more control of the offense and yeah comparing PG's to C's isn't exactly the best thing to do.

Let's give credit where credit's due, to Dallas. Marion proved he was still one of the best defenders in the league, and produced offensively all playoffs long.

Kidd proved he still has maybe another year left in him. He pretty much handled Kobe, and wasn't a liability against OKC or Miami.

Terry didn't choke. Give him his credit man, everyone knows how good Terry is. It's just that in the playoffs he seemed to vanish. He didn't this time around, so he deserves to be elevated somewhat.

It's not revisionist history, lol. Dallas actually went out there and proved themselves, they overachieved sure, but looking at whom they went through, that in itself lends me to elevate them above what LeBron had in Cleveland for sure. I mean seriously, look at who Dallas had to go through.

Two years in a row isn't several ex lol. The Cavs core that was together the last two years isn't the same one that got beat in the Finals. The year after the Finals they still had Hughes, Gooden and Eric Snow on that roster. LeBron took the Celtics to seven games by himself and if they had ONE more scorer at that time they'd have beaten the Celtics that year as that series came down to a shootout between Pierce and Bron. Defensively they were solid but they were missing that second guy who could put the ball in the basket.

The following year they brought in Mo Williams who was a guy that could hit those shots, who could give them another 19 points in situations like that. Unfortunately Mo ghosted that entire playoffs and they ran into a mismatch against Orlando and they're giant roster of 6'7" and up dudes that can all hit from three. Cool, the next year they surrounded Bron with shooters and brought in Shaq to counter Dwight. Shaq still had gas in the tank as we saw in the Boston series, Bron Bron just choked/quit on them in the middle of the series and convinced his teammates to do the same. Lost in all the 'Cavs supporting cast sucks' discussion is the fact that they were up 2-1 at one point in the series even coming back from being down 11 at the half in game 1 and blowing out the C's IN BOSTON in game 3. Mo improved his playoff performance significantly in his second year in Cleveland and I think he would have played better in year three had Bron not bolted on them to 'Chill' in Miami.

I don't think anyone is trying to take away from Dallas at all ex. It's just pointing out that we don't know everything and everything isn't always exactly what it seems and just adds up to the end result of the last thing you saw all the time. Cavs washed out a few years so automatically we say they never were going to do anything. Meanwhile we didn't give Dallas a chance either at the beginning of the season, in the middle of the season or even at the end of the season to do **** and they ended up doing it all. We can't sit here and say 'well Cleveland didn't have this like Dallas had or this' cause the same trash we're talking about Cleveland's supporting cast is the same thing we were saying about Dallas all year. Nobody was talking about how Kidd was gonna hold things together and not get rattled all year. Nobody was talking about Marion is going to be able to play fantastic defense on whoever's direction you pointed him to and look beautiful offensively at the same time. Nobody was talking about DeShawn Stevenson contributing with big time shots in big time spots. I honestly think with what we know about this year and how it unfolded, with Boston doing what it did to they're team, with Orlando doing what they did to they're team. Bron could have stayed one more year in Cleveland at least and they could have done it this year or at least made the Finals. That's all I'm saying and everyone is jumping on it like it was impossible.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Just to add to this, that type of logic is what I've been seeing after Dallas won.

It's like, since they weren't really expected to win it all, somehow people try to discredit the team overall or Dirk individually.

How does that make any sense at all?

It's not as if Terry, Kidd and Dirk coming into the playoffs were viewed as inferior or "not good". These guys and Marion and Chandler have all proven to have contributed at high levels throughout their careers, the one thing holding them back was getting a ring.

Cleveland same thing, Mo, Jamison, those guys were known to have contributed at high levels before, but the one thing holding them back were their post season performances.

So when Kidd, Dirk, Matrix etc. etc. finally get over the hump, I see people just trying to knock them down again? I see people calling it revisionist history when comparing this Dallas team to Cleveland? That really makes no sense at all.

These guys were all capable players, Dallas players as well as Mo and Jamison etc. etc., but what was separating people was post season success.

If Mo and Jamison Andy etc. etc. go out and help a team get to a title, I'll sing a different tune about them just like Marion/JET/Matrix.

Wow, you're twisting my point into this? Really? That's all you, bro. This is actually hilarious. I'm putting an argument out there to explain why I think YOU discredit the guys on the Cavs last year (this is the first post I think you've gone away from that a bit) and you interpret that to be ME discrediting the Mavs?

Anyway, the Cavs may have had a chance to have their Terry/Kidd/Marion moment if the Celtics series didn't go the way it did... or if they had another year with James to give it another shot.

They may have still come up empty, but we'll never know. But all I've been saying is basically exactly what you just said. It wouldn't have been impossible for that same team to do what this year's Mavs team did.